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I'm truly confused by the Tonyan analyses, that he'll suddenly have a hard time winning snaps from Tyler Davis after years of being one of our QB's favorite dudes on the team and a red zone threat. I guess that's why they play the games
Unless he improves his blocking he is a liability on the field.
That was his primary function before injury last season and he got the most TE snaps. I am not sure one can say he is a liability in the blocking department.
And I haven't even voted Tonyan!
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 21 Jun 2022 11:37, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Newman is probably the guy at RG. On the Mike Wahle episodes of Pack-a-Day, Newman's rookie struggles were discussed, but Wahle would still say stuff like ~'he'll be fine, he's further along than I was at that stage.' And LaFleur has seemed more comfortable playing "vets" than rookies in general.
But Rhyan is a high-ish draft pick with lots of college playing experience (at LT), and the difference in pro experience is 1 season. If the competition were just Hanson and CVL, I'd confidently say that Newman is our starter opposite JRJ, but Rhyan looks like a legit enough challenger to make me hesitate a bit.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
I'm truly confused by the Tonyan analyses, that he'll suddenly have a hard time winning snaps from Tyler Davis after years of being one of our QB's favorite dudes on the team and a red zone threat. I guess that's why they play the games
Unless he improves his blocking he is a liability on the field. It's not just Tyler Davis, he is also competing with other QB fave dude Randall Cobb. I have a really hard time seeing his production from 1/2 a season last year and still going, "Yeah, but 2020!!"
Even if Tonyan were to wholesale supplant Davis when he gets back *and* keep Deguara from getting on the field (neither of which will happen), he will be returning to an offense that is probably going to increase touches to Jones and Dillon pretty significantly while he's not a very good blocker (so Lewis will inevitably take some snaps away), and will compete with all of Watkins, Lazard, Cobb, and probably Watson for targets. I'm sure Rodgers is going to make sure to get the ball to at least the first two early and often.
That doesn't leave a lot of opportunities for Tonyan to produce much, that I can see. And, again, the reality is Davis and Deguara both will eat into his TE snaps, on top of the aforementioned factors working against him, so...
Like, I would sooner vote for Watson. If Watson merely plays the role of the MVS "big play"-guy replacement as a rookie, that probably amounts to more production and more help for the offense in general than Tonyan's decent receiving and mediocre blocking.
Looks like he won this round of voting though, so...
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
59 targets, 52 receptions, 500 plus yrds and 11 TD's, tied for league lead, and the most TD's by a Packer TE since Coffman.
been voting for Tonyan for a week, he didn't play last year, so out of sight, out of mind.
8 games. It just seemed like he didn't play because he didn't produce.
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who knows why, but it wasn't for lack of talent, the two games prior to injury are who Tonyan is.
Exactly, regarding receiving stats. But Tonyan did produce the first 6 games. He did exactly what he was told to do. Help the Olinemen. The Packers were starting a guard at LT, a 2nd year man and late draft choice at LG, a rookie at center, a rookie at RG and a journeyman at RT. What should the coaches have told the TE to do in this situation if not block? In fact, Tonyan is a good blocker.
After the first 6 games, Jenkins had gotten used to playing LT and Runyan was proving to be solid, Myers was a very pleasant surprise and so the coaches were letting Tonyan be part of the passing game again.
I'm truly confused by the Tonyan analyses, that he'll suddenly have a hard time winning snaps from Tyler Davis after years of being one of our QB's favorite dudes on the team and a red zone threat. I guess that's why they play the games
Unless he improves his blocking he is a liability on the field. It's not just Tyler Davis, he is also competing with other QB fave dude Randall Cobb. I have a really hard time seeing his production from 1/2 a season last year and still going, "Yeah, but 2020!!"
Even if Tonyan were to wholesale supplant Davis when he gets back *and* keep Deguara from getting on the field (neither of which will happen), he will be returning to an offense that is probably going to increase touches to Jones and Dillon pretty significantly while he's not a very good blocker (so Lewis will inevitably take some snaps away), and will compete with all of Watkins, Lazard, Cobb, and probably Watson for targets. I'm sure Rodgers is going to make sure to get the ball to at least the first two early and often.
That doesn't leave a lot of opportunities for Tonyan to produce much, that I can see. And, again, the reality is Davis and Deguara both will eat into his TE snaps, on top of the aforementioned factors working against him, so...
Like, I would sooner vote for Watson. If Watson merely plays the role of the MVS "big play"-guy replacement as a rookie, that probably amounts to more production and more help for the offense in general than Tonyan's decent receiving and mediocre blocking.
Looks like he won this round of voting though, so...
Again, why do you think Tonyan is not a good blocker and why do you think he won't be back when Gute said he would probably be ready? With regard to blocking, are you reading some evaluation of him from his rookie season or something, forgetting that he was a wide receiver and QB in college?
Again, why do you think Tonyan is not a good blocker and why do you think he won't be back when Gute said he would probably be ready? With regard to blocking, are you reading some evaluation of him from his rookie season or something, forgetting that he was a wide receiver and QB in college?
I don't have the efficiency stats, but I think most will agree he is not a good blocker. He went so far as to call him a liability for which Packfn called me out on that. Maybe that is a stretch, but I will not agree that he is good and personally, I will not even agree that he is sufficient.
Again, why do you think Tonyan is not a good blocker and why do you think he won't be back when Gute said he would probably be ready? With regard to blocking, are you reading some evaluation of him from his rookie season or something, forgetting that he was a wide receiver and QB in college?
I don't have the efficiency stats, but I think most will agree he is not a good blocker. He went so far as to call him a liability for which Packfn called me out on that. Maybe that is a stretch, but I will not agree that he is good and personally, I will not even agree that he is sufficient.
so then you disagree with the coaches, Tonyan was on the field blocking when Lewis the best blocking TE in the football world was not, now obviously I'am not going to lump Tonyan as a blocker up against Lewis, but that he was the preferred starter over him speaks volumes for me, specially when the OL needed blocking assurance early in the season.
So far Deguara has not played up to draft slot, both he and Davis are inconsistent, ( which could be a mental thing, TE is a tough position in that respect) so Tonyan has the most experience of the group, I expect he'll continue on the path he was on prior to getting hurt and the 2020 season when he caught near everything thrown his way, 52 of 59 targeted throws, thats phenom status, and we got him back on the cheap, we should take advantage of that.
Again, why do you think Tonyan is not a good blocker and why do you think he won't be back when Gute said he would probably be ready? With regard to blocking, are you reading some evaluation of him from his rookie season or something, forgetting that he was a wide receiver and QB in college?
I don't have the efficiency stats, but I think most will agree he is not a good blocker. He went so far as to call him a liability for which Packfn called me out on that. Maybe that is a stretch, but I will not agree that he is good and personally, I will not even agree that he is sufficient.
so then you disagree with the coaches, Tonyan was on the field blocking when Lewis the best blocking TE in the football world was not, now obviously I'am not going to lump Tonyan as a blocker up against Lewis, but that he was the preferred starter over him speaks volumes for me, specially when the OL needed blocking assurance early in the season.
So far Deguara has not played up to draft slot, both he and Davis are inconsistent, ( which could be a mental thing, TE is a tough position in that respect) so Tonyan has the most experience of the group, I expect he'll continue on the path he was on prior to getting hurt and the 2020 season when he caught near everything thrown his way, 52 of 59 targeted throws, thats phenom status, and we got him back on the cheap, we should take advantage of that.
I am not saying almost any of those things. I am just justifying my votes of Cobb and Watson over Tonyan. I still would have voted Tonyan as TE1 because he is obviously the best receiver of the bunch, but I will be really interested to see how he is used this season. I think the 2 WR's should be up here and Big Dean and Newman and maybe another guy or two before I considered Bobby. Not much in the grand scheme of things, just were my thoughts were at.
