From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
whats going on is you'll bitch up a storm when we lose, but argue with me that one more skill set player wouldn't have made a difference, when other teams in the league are loading up on skill position players
and yet those teams end up with the same results as us.
Not SB winners.
You continue to point to the 2010 loaded WR's being the reason why we won the SB. Yet when I look at the playoffs of the 2010 season, I believe we won the trophy because our defense scored a TD in 3 of the 4 playoff games and forced multiple turnovers in the other. Our WRs stepped up huge in ATL and in the SB but they were complete ghosts in Philly and Chicago.
Football has so many variables. So many of them. Why people fight with you is because you narrow your vision and every discussion to one pet project narrative you will never give up.
I would say it's better to say nothing at all rather than "shoot from the hip" on made up stats and data like you just assumed that MVS's 50% catch rate is all on how terrible of a WR MVS is when not beginning to think of any other reason why his catch rate was that low.
We've run the gauntlet of pet topics today! I think the only one missing is Gary!
[mention]Yoop[/mention] How can you/we tell if the receiver arrives at the proper catch point on schedule with where the QB should throw it?
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
whats going on is you'll bitch up a storm when we lose, but argue with me that one more skill set player wouldn't have made a difference, when other teams in the league are loading up on skill position players
and yet those teams end up with the same results as us.
Not SB winners.
????
Rams were loaded, bucs were loaded, Chiefs were loaded.
We've run the gauntlet of pet topics today! I think the only one missing is Gary!
@Yoop How can you/we tell if the receiver arrives at the proper catch point on schedule with where the QB should throw it?
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
whats going on is you'll bitch up a storm when we lose, but argue with me that one more skill set player wouldn't have made a difference, when other teams in the league are loading up on skill position players
and yet those teams end up with the same results as us.
Not SB winners.
You continue to point to the 2010 loaded WR's being the reason why we won the SB. Yet when I look at the playoffs of the 2010 season, I believe we won the trophy because our defense scored a TD in 3 of the 4 playoff games and forced multiple turnovers in the other. Our WRs stepped up huge in ATL and in the SB but they were complete ghosts in Philly and Chicago.
Football has so many variables. So many of them. Why people fight with you is because you narrow your vision and every discussion to one pet project narrative you will never give up.
I would say it's better to say nothing at all rather than "shoot from the hip" on made up stats and data like you just assumed that MVS's 50% catch rate is all on how terrible of a WR MVS is when not beginning to think of any other reason why his catch rate was that low.
here we go again with accusations of made up stats, there is nothing made up, MVS has never done better then catch 50% of targeted throws, why? because he doesn't get to the catch point, now you can blame Rodgers for that, I chose not to, we gave Rodgers the biggest contract ever, and let Scantling walk, I think the FO agree's with me.
people made a big deal about the drops, but your missing the more important stuff, the catch to target correlation should attract your attention more, it means more, course, realizing that would have hindered making fun of me, hope you enjoyed yourselves.
receivers that consistently catch below 50% of targeted throws usually don't hang to the end of there rookie contract, the only reason Scantling was because he had speed, and we had no one much better.
and teams that win SB's have more then one bonafide WR, the neglect at the position has been discussed by football people
We've run the gauntlet of pet topics today! I think the only one missing is Gary!
@Yoop How can you/we tell if the receiver arrives at the proper catch point on schedule with where the QB should throw it?
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
Do you understand how large an NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 04 Aug 2022 22:39, edited 2 times in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
We've run the gauntlet of pet topics today! I think the only one missing is Gary!
@Yoop How can you/we tell if the receiver arrives at the proper catch point on schedule with where the QB should throw it?
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
You can’t watch film and tell the difference between a smooth crisp efficient route vs a loose rounded off sloppy route? Lol doesn’t require expert eyes.
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
You can’t watch film and tell the difference between a smooth crisp efficient route vs a loose rounded off sloppy route? Lol doesn’t require expert eyes.
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
You can’t watch film and tell the difference between a smooth crisp efficient route vs a loose rounded off sloppy route? Lol doesn’t require expert eyes.
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
We've run the gauntlet of pet topics today! I think the only one missing is Gary!
@Yoop How can you/we tell if the receiver arrives at the proper catch point on schedule with where the QB should throw it?
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
Do you understand how large ab NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
I never said I did, this is you interpreting what I said, my point is that I trust Rodgers over any of these receivers, and so have game commentators.
Rodgers is one of the most accurate passers in the league, why is it he hits Adams with what look like pin point throws, yet has far less success with any of these others, minus Cobb and Tonyan and to a lesser extent Lazard? duhhh, you want to blame Rodgers and defend these ragga muffin receivers, we didn't bring Watkins aboard and draft 3 new ones if these others where any good.
You can’t watch film and tell the difference between a smooth crisp efficient route vs a loose rounded off sloppy route? Lol doesn’t require expert eyes.
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Yoop and I know
now he's changing the goal post, of course the way the route is run will determine if he arrives on schedule, he's trying to get us to believe Rodgers missed these receivers, versus them lacking consistency running there pass routes which destroys route timing or arriving at the catch point on time, it's so frustrating, specially when he knows damn well that we are right.
You can’t watch film and tell the difference between a smooth crisp efficient route vs a loose rounded off sloppy route? Lol doesn’t require expert eyes.
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Yoop and I know
No you don't. You and lie to yourself and believe you do, but you don't. None of here do. I realize you are just trolling, so if you would not, that would be great, thanks.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 04 Aug 2022 22:15, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
simple, watch how he runs the route, you use all22 when it suits your argument, why not use it here, there has been plenty of reports from beat writers who do watch it that have mentioned that MVS runs his routes poorly, it's probably been the biggest complaint about him
So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run? These are both rhetorical questions, by the way. Of course you have done neither and have little idea where a receiver "should" be when the ball arrives. Saying you do, is simply the thing that fits your argument today. None of us have much of an idea of where exactly the receivers should be.
Do you understand how large ab NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
I never said I did, this is you interpreting what I said, my point is that I trust Rodgers over any of these receivers, and so have game commentators.
Rodgers is one of the most accurate passers in the league, why is it he hits Adams with what look like pin point throws, yet has far less success with any of these others, minus Cobb and Tonyan and to a lesser extent Lazard? duhhh, you want to blame Rodgers and defend these ragga muffin receivers, we didn't bring Watkins aboard and draft 3 new ones if these others where any good.
Actually you did pretty much say you did. "Simple, watch how you runs the route." You didn't type that?
Give Rodgers the benefit of the doubt all you want, but it doesn't mean he is infallible, nor does it mean you know what the route should look like.
I didn't even mention Rodgers until this post. FFS man...
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 04 Aug 2022 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Yoop and I know
now he's changing the goal post, of course the way the route is run will determine if he arrives on schedule, he's trying to get us to believe Rodgers missed these receivers, versus them lacking consistency running there pass routes which destroys route timing or arriving at the catch point on time, it's so frustrating, specially when he knows damn well that we are right.
I never said that a sloppy route would not impact the catch point...
And again, I didn't even $%@# mention Rodgers. Wow. When there is an incompletion on a pass outside a receiver's catch radius, none of us here know if it was a bad pass or a poor route. That is literally all I am saying.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Yoop and I know
No you don't. You and lie to yourself and believe you do, but you don't. None of here do.
put the jug away, blah, blah blah, anyone that wont realize that catch per target rate speaks volumes concerning route running consistency which improves chemistry and timing with his QB isn't playing with a full deck, you chose to blame Rodgers and defend guys like Scantling is mind boggling, and I think a personal insult to anyone that bothers to take the time to rationalize the game of football, good bye.
The sloppiness or crispness of the route is not being debated, and I think you know that as "catch point," has been what this discussion has revolved around. It is about the vast number of plays in an NFL playbook has along with the nuances that each play and route requires depending on presnap defensive alignment and coverage. Not to mention, the tweeks made in the meeting rooms. An outsider could never know for certain where a route should end up.
Yoop and I know
No you don't. You and lie to yourself and believe you do, but you don't. None of here do. I realize you are just trolling, so if you would not, that would be great, thanks.
I actually wasn’t trolling. I can generally watch a receiver run a route and tell if he got to where he wanted to be. Most of us can. It’s especially easy with Packers receivers because Rodgers will serve up death stares to anyone not where he wanted them to be.
now he's changing the goal post, of course the way the route is run will determine if he arrives on schedule, he's trying to get us to believe Rodgers missed these receivers, versus them lacking consistency running there pass routes which destroys route timing or arriving at the catch point on time, it's so frustrating, specially when he knows damn well that we are right.
I never said that a sloppy route would not impact the catch point...
And again, I didn't even $%@# mention Rodgers. Wow. When there is an incompletion on a pass outside a receiver's catch radius, none of us here know if it was a bad pass or a poor route. That is literally all I am saying.
No you don't. You and lie to yourself and believe you do, but you don't. None of here do.
put the jug away, blah, blah blah, anyone that wont realize that catch per target rate speaks volumes concerning route running consistency which improves chemistry and timing with his QB isn't playing with a full deck, you chose to blame Rodgers and defend guys like Scantling is mind boggling, and I think a personal insult to anyone that bothers to take the time to rationalize the game of football, good bye.
I am not saying anything about catch per target. Holy hell, follow the conversation. I am saying none of us know enough of the Packers playbook and the nuances therein to determine where a receiver should be on any given play. I haven't blamed anyone, stop trying swing every conversation around to your pet topics. I literally have not blamed or defended anyone...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
now he's changing the goal post, of course the way the route is run will determine if he arrives on schedule, he's trying to get us to believe Rodgers missed these receivers, versus them lacking consistency running there pass routes which destroys route timing or arriving at the catch point on time, it's so frustrating, specially when he knows damn well that we are right.
I never said that a sloppy route would not impact the catch point...
And again, I didn't even $%@# mention Rodgers. Wow. When there is an incompletion on a pass outside a receiver's catch radius, none of us here know if it was a bad pass or a poor route. That is literally all I am saying.
Speak for yourself.
Trolls gotta troll I see. Only a troll would claim they know the playbook.
No you don't. You and lie to yourself and believe you do, but you don't. None of here do. I realize you are just trolling, so if you would not, that would be great, thanks.
I actually wasn’t trolling. I can generally watch a receiver run a route and tell if he got to where he wanted to be. Most of us can. It’s especially easy with Packers receivers because Rodgers will serve up death stares to anyone not where he wanted them to be.
You have little idea where exactly he wanted to be. Only being an insider on the Packers would give you that information. It's easy to know when Rodgers serves up "death stares" however we don't see that on all the hundreds of incompletions.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 04 Aug 2022 22:30, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I never said that a sloppy route would not impact the catch point...
And again, I didn't even $%@# mention Rodgers. Wow. When there is an incompletion on a pass outside a receiver's catch radius, none of us here know if it was a bad pass or a poor route. That is literally all I am saying.
Speak for yourself.
Trolls gotta troll I see. Only a troll would claim they know the playbook.
You don’t have to know the playbook to evaluate a good route lol
