Packers Huddle

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 12:52

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 10:56

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 09:50

How does this team end up getting saddled with these pinhead defensive coordinators for years without any accountability? Between Capers with the 2-5 and Barry with his soft zone, it's enough to send a fan to the looney bin.

lousy talent was the biggest problem during the Capers years, we are running a 2-4/5 now, the problem is the passive zone coverages leave to much space for opposing receivers,

as to stopping the run, we just need better technique defending it, as Lombardi use to scream " grab, grab grab, all I see is you guys grabbing.

Robinson runs like a big Barry Sanders, we have to do better against guys like him.

this was a total 4th quarter let down, all 3 phases did poorly

I agree. We kept Capers on board to run his signature scheme. It's a great scheme if you have all-pro talent at every single position group. The problem was that come hell or highwater, he was going to run that scheme. And it's a dumpster fire when there is not all-pro at every single position group. I don't blame him, I blame McCarthy.

This just simply isn’t true. Capers won with Charlie Peprah at S and Frank Zombo at OLB and some real bad ILB play. Capers fizzled out here because Ted Thompson was truly atrocious down the stretch evaluating defensive back talent.

I hope GB d is taking notes how the Panthers are attacking the saints offense.

Next week will really tell how this team responds from top to bottom. Every winnable home game I hope they play it like a must win and aggressively

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:41

I hope GB d is taking notes how the Panthers are attacking the saints offense.

Next week will really tell how this team responds from top to bottom. Every winnable home game I hope they play it like a must win and aggressively

Evero is a real DC.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:43

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:41

I hope GB d is taking notes how the Panthers are attacking the saints offense.

Next week will really tell how this team responds from top to bottom. Every winnable home game I hope they play it like a must win and aggressively

Evero is a real DC.

It seems like MLF didn't pay attention to McCoach's tenure and bad habit of keeping underperforming assistants around too long. At least McCoach could motivate the guys to play. Would have won yesterday with him coaching, if for no other reason than challenging the spot on Dillon's 3rd down flop. Glad he is doing well in Dallas.

I honestly don't have a lot of key takeaways from this loss.

We played well enough to win and win big in the second and third quarters. We showed what we can do in those quarters.

We started slow, and we folded late. To me it didn't show me much that I didn't already think about our team--that the Falcons' run game would be a big challenge for us and that the team is going to have some inconsistency and be disjointed.

It was a heartbreaking and devastating loss; it hurt because it was SO winnable and will assuredly be one of those games--a game with conference tie-breaking implications--that will haunt us later.

But it isn't a game that makes me think much differently about the long- and medium-term trajectory of this team. It just sucked.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:00

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 12:52

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 10:56

lousy talent was the biggest problem during the Capers years, we are running a 2-4/5 now, the problem is the passive zone coverages leave to much space for opposing receivers,

as to stopping the run, we just need better technique defending it, as Lombardi use to scream " grab, grab grab, all I see is you guys grabbing.

Robinson runs like a big Barry Sanders, we have to do better against guys like him.

this was a total 4th quarter let down, all 3 phases did poorly

I agree. We kept Capers on board to run his signature scheme. It's a great scheme if you have all-pro talent at every single position group. The problem was that come hell or highwater, he was going to run that scheme. And it's a dumpster fire when there is not all-pro at every single position group. I don't blame him, I blame McCarthy.

This just simply isn’t true. Capers won with Charlie Peprah at S and Frank Zombo at OLB and some real bad ILB play. Capers fizzled out here because Ted Thompson was truly atrocious down the stretch evaluating defensive back talent.

Wait which season are you referring to? Is it 2010 when we had All Pros at every position group and those guys played? Or was it the very next season when those same 2 guys still played, but Nick Collins got hurt and suddenly we became the statistically worst defense in NFL history?

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:00

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 12:52

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 10:56

lousy talent was the biggest problem during the Capers years, we are running a 2-4/5 now, the problem is the passive zone coverages leave to much space for opposing receivers,

as to stopping the run, we just need better technique defending it, as Lombardi use to scream " grab, grab grab, all I see is you guys grabbing.

Robinson runs like a big Barry Sanders, we have to do better against guys like him.

this was a total 4th quarter let down, all 3 phases did poorly

I agree. We kept Capers on board to run his signature scheme. It's a great scheme if you have all-pro talent at every single position group. The problem was that come hell or highwater, he was going to run that scheme. And it's a dumpster fire when there is not all-pro at every single position group. I don't blame him, I blame McCarthy.

This just simply isn’t true. Capers won with Charlie Peprah at S and Frank Zombo at OLB and some real bad ILB play. Capers fizzled out here because Ted Thompson was truly atrocious down the stretch evaluating defensive back talent.

An all-pro player in every group. Not that every player was all-pro.

Still sucks we lost, so pissed at the D, 3 straight long scoring drives, hate when we do that. Take some shots, go for some big plays, either get a sack a big tackle for a loss, an int or f it, let ‘em score quicker.


&%$@ for the O without Bak, Jenkins, Jones and Watson, literally our 4 best guys.

And I believe at that point with Jenkins out, Jordan Love, in year 4, was the only guy on the field on offense not on his current rookie contract. 3 straight series without a first down isn’t acceptable, but at least they have a really valid excuse.

We almost all talked about it and acknowledged it, but this is one of those young team learning how to play/win frustration games. Gotta fix some things, especially on defense, and get healthy on offense.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 08:08

We almost all talked about it and acknowledged it, but this is one of those young team learning how to play/win frustration games. Gotta fix some things, especially on defense, and get healthy on offense.

The young players held up their end, though. It was the vets and our coaches that let the team down.

I do expect the young team inexperience etc stuff to show once and a while and cost us. And though I’d say it kind of showed at the end on offense I’m not ready to apply that to this game.

The defense is not young, they’re are almost all a couple/few years in this Joe Barry system and they should be the heart of this team until the young guys find their feet.

This D should actually be in its absolute prime right now and controlling games until the offense can find its way.

Instead it’s more of the same. Individually there is more than enough talent to be elite. Maybe a tick below a San Fran or Dallas right now but certainly up there and it’s the same old story.

This was not a game we should have lost.

Labrev wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 08:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 08:08

We almost all talked about it and acknowledged it, but this is one of those young team learning how to play/win frustration games. Gotta fix some things, especially on defense, and get healthy on offense.

The young players held up their end, though. It was the vets and our coaches that let the team down.

I definitely agree with you to an extent. The vets and coaching did let us down, but also the young players played like young players at times. The team has what it takes to be very good, if they can bring it ALL together. While we absolutely should expect more from the defense, the offense with it's young guys didn't cut it at the end of the game either. 3 drives, 10 plays, 7 yards...

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 17:53

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 13:25

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 11:35

Someone asked the question a few months ago if we should draft Bijan Robinson if he falls to our pick.

With the exception of me and maybe one other person, everyone was like, no, we are set at RB.

Found it! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1100&start=320

ahh this is a no win post, these rafter owls will want to know the name of the Huddle member that agreed with you, and a list of all who disagreed Me, I new you where just generalizing to sink in your point, that Robinson will imitate Barry Sanders, and anyone that can do that would look nice in G&G.

Exactly so.

When yoop and I are in agreement, it is like King Kong and Godzilla teaming up. The whole world is helpless to stop us.

Packer fans been complaining about Packer defense since, well it seems forever, it was so important to have a better defense that Teddy T abandoned one of his greatest accomplishments, picking PB receivers in the 2nd round, since 2014 most draft picks went to defense, almost all the top few rounds, and here we are.

healthy and even with all the youth this offense is good enough to win even with average defensive play, the problem is this defense isn't even average, worst in the league against the run again, and a good QB, with good protection will carve this off coverage apart, I expected better this season, we all did, and unless we see improvement some heads need to roll.

Labrev wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 09:08

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 17:53

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 13:25

Found it! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1100&start=320

ahh this is a no win post, these rafter owls will want to know the name of the Huddle member that agreed with you, and a list of all who disagreed Me, I new you where just generalizing to sink in your point, that Robinson will imitate Barry Sanders, and anyone that can do that would look nice in G&G.

Exactly so.

When yoop and I are in agreement, it is like King Kong and Godzilla teaming up. The whole world is helpless to stop us.

amen ta dat

doesn't matter to me where the production comes from, just so long as it comes

I still think the thought of trading for Jonathan Taylor was a good one, I still think Dillon is a poor fit in Lafleurs run schemes, and since we now focus so much more of our game plan to running, we need more Aaron Jones style RB's, and less of the inside zone style guys, like Dillon, but thats just my opinion.

So Labrev says something that didn’t happen. Tex jumps on and says yeah, lot of group think here. And yoop agrees that all 3 of you are really smart…

For thinking you are smarter than people who don’t exist.

dsr wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 03:33

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 19:00

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

18 Sep 2023 12:52

I agree. We kept Capers on board to run his signature scheme. It's a great scheme if you have all-pro talent at every single position group. The problem was that come hell or highwater, he was going to run that scheme. And it's a dumpster fire when there is not all-pro at every single position group. I don't blame him, I blame McCarthy.

This just simply isn’t true. Capers won with Charlie Peprah at S and Frank Zombo at OLB and some real bad ILB play. Capers fizzled out here because Ted Thompson was truly atrocious down the stretch evaluating defensive back talent.

An all-pro player in every group. Not that every player was all-pro.

I am with lupe on this one. The claim that Capers needed all his position groups to have star talent to field a great defense is a tired one. The first problem with it is, which schemes out there produce great defenses without star talent at all three of the DL, LBs, and DBs? Name one elite defense that did not have a star in each of those groups. You can't do it.

The second problem (and what our fans don't seem to get) is, it is not an absolute prerequisite to have great defense to go the distance. It can be less than great/elite if the offense makes up the difference. It simply needs to not be a liability that actively costs you games.

On that note, there were years where Capers's defenses were good enough to win with, for a team that had elite QB play. 2014 defense was good enough to go the distance, and he made it work with middling starters. This was pre-Kenny Clark, our best DL was Mike Daniels. Our ILBs were Hawk and, like, Barrington? We finally fixed our massive void at S by starting a rookie, Haha Clinton-Dix, who was decent for two years, not a star by any means. We beat the eventual SB champ Patriots pretty convincingly, had the NFCCG well in hand but lost mainly due to O and ST play, D was the least of the issue.

Capers's trash defenses were ones where he was forced to play guys who were godawful. 2011-2013 we not simply lost our star FS, but the guys who came out in relief were well below even backup quality at S (guys like MD Jennings, Jerron McMillan, etc.). 2016 our CB room was in disarray, we were starting Ladarius Gunter.

2017 when Capers was let go, and the D was not even that bad, even though the CB problem still had not been fixed, it was just the Hundley year where the O couldn't stay on the field. You win football games by holding the opponent to fewer points than your O; what is the defense supposed to do when the offense gets shut out twice at home?

musclestang wrote: ↑

19 Sep 2023 08:33

I do expect the young team inexperience etc stuff to show once and a while and cost us. And though I’d say it kind of showed at the end on offense I’m not ready to apply that to this game.

The defense is not young, they’re are almost all a couple/few years in this Joe Barry system and they should be the heart of this team until the young guys find their feet.

This D should actually be in its absolute prime right now and controlling games until the offense can find its way.

You mean like….

A lot of Capers era stuff to me was always a combination of the overall philosophy and then how it all played out.

I think capers and MM would lose some play calling achemeing etc early in the year to test players, situations etc I order to prepare them to win that situation later in the year.

And later in the year they always seemed to tighten up and then we’d find ourselves in a playoff game with a 1 legged Andy Mulumba as our best available linebacker