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Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 19:32
by lupedafiasco
dsr wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 17:59
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 07:48
who else does Barry have that can drop into a zone out of a 50 front base front package? not defending Barry, and maybe others can do it, but I havn't seen LVN drop, or Gary, or Enegbare, imho Smith has to play till someone else can actually be a OLB, and do that stuff, your asking a bunch of DE's who have probably never been asked to drop and cover to do it.
And Smith has played pretty well all year.
I don't much care who he has to fill the role. If he hasn't got anyone who can stop Godwin getting open in midfield for an easy 15 yard gain, then he needs to do something different - not carry on doing the same thing badly.
The D had one tactic - get a sack. If they didn't get a sack, then the completion was there all day long. It is pathetic to see Godwin get his tenth identical catch and the defensive coordinator's attitude is presumably "sorry boys, I'm out of ideas". If Baker Mayfield is throwing a perfect game, then trying something else can hardly make it worse, can it.
What is the answer to stopping Godwin in the slot? Do you play Nixon there who has been a really bad nickel corner most of the season? Do you bring inside one of your boundary CBs who aren’t even really that great at playing outside? Do you bring down someone from your thin and already very weak S room? Do we continue trying LBs? Do we double him and leave Stokes to get fried by Evans again? Do we just all out blitz and still leave single coverage against Godwin?
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 19:47
by Drj820
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:32
dsr wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 17:59
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 07:48
who else does Barry have that can drop into a zone out of a 50 front base front package? not defending Barry, and maybe others can do it, but I havn't seen LVN drop, or Gary, or Enegbare, imho Smith has to play till someone else can actually be a OLB, and do that stuff, your asking a bunch of DE's who have probably never been asked to drop and cover to do it.
And Smith has played pretty well all year.
I don't much care who he has to fill the role. If he hasn't got anyone who can stop Godwin getting open in midfield for an easy 15 yard gain, then he needs to do something different - not carry on doing the same thing badly.
The D had one tactic - get a sack. If they didn't get a sack, then the completion was there all day long. It is pathetic to see Godwin get his tenth identical catch and the defensive coordinator's attitude is presumably "sorry boys, I'm out of ideas". If Baker Mayfield is throwing a perfect game, then trying something else can hardly make it worse, can it.
What is the answer to stopping Godwin in the slot? Do you play Nixon there who has been a really bad nickel corner most of the season? Do you bring inside one of your boundary CBs who aren’t even really that great at playing outside? Do you bring down someone from your thin and already very weak S room? Do we continue trying LBs? Do we double him and leave Stokes to get fried by Evans again? Do we just all out blitz and still leave single coverage against Godwin?
My suggestion: I would put rasul Douglas on him…ah crap nevermind
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 19:51
by lupedafiasco
So we put a boundary CB in the slot where he’s not best suited to play?
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:01
by wallyuwl
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:51
So we put a boundary CB in the slot where he’s not best suited to play?
Yeah, that isn't a good idea. It is a much better job for a LB or OLB.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:03
by lupedafiasco
wallyuwl wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:01
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:51
So we put a boundary CB in the slot where he’s not best suited to play?
Yeah, that isn't a good idea. It is a much better job for a LB or OLB.
I would argue neither is a great idea which is my point. This is the defense put on the field by our GM.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:12
by APB
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:03
wallyuwl wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:01
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:51
So we put a boundary CB in the slot where he’s not best suited to play?
Yeah, that isn't a good idea. It is a much better job for a LB or OLB.
I would argue neither is a great idea which is my point. This is the defense put on the field by our GM.
Are you suggesting there is no way to defend that alignment??
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:16
by lupedafiasco
APB wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:12
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:03
wallyuwl wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:01
Yeah, that isn't a good idea. It is a much better job for a LB or OLB.
I would argue neither is a great idea which is my point. This is the defense put on the field by our GM.
Are you suggesting there is no way to defend that alignment??
I am not. I think if you have a real slot CB or an ILB that isn’t garbage it makes it increasingly easy. Instead we overevaluated Nixon based on no history of being a competent nickel CB and we gave Campbell a long term deal instead of franchise tagging him and forcing him to duplicate an All Pro season after being a journeyman ILB in his way out of the league. But we couldn’t tag him because we had to tag Adams because he said he would never play for this GM again.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:20
by Scott4Pack
packman114 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 18:26
I was watching the game with 2 of my cousins who don't know much about the Packers. They're asking me how our defense can suck so bad with all the draft picks on that side of the ball.
I told them about our DCs great record in his other 2 stints as a DC and they laughed. Said it's like hiring an CFO for your business who bankrupted two prior companies.
So either Gutey and our scouts have no clue how to draft defensive players or the coaching sucks. Fastest way to find out is to change coaches.
...or use your next seven first round picks on defense! hahahaha
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:33
by Scott4Pack
APB wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 10:27
No words...except wtf.
One safety THIRTY-FIVE yards off the LOS would be a hair-brained player issue. Two Safeties 35+ yards off the LOS begs for the DC to lose his job because that is what they were coached to do.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 20:45
by wallyuwl
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:16
But we couldn’t tag him because we had to tag Adams because he said he would never play for this GM again.
Starting to be a trend
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 21:19
by APB
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:16
APB wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:12
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:03
I would argue neither is a great idea which is my point. This is the defense put on the field by our GM.
Are you suggesting there is no way to defend that alignment??
I am not. I think if you have a real slot CB or an ILB that isn’t garbage it makes it increasingly easy. Instead we overevaluated Nixon based on no history of being a competent nickel CB and we gave Campbell a long term deal instead of franchise tagging him and forcing him to duplicate an All Pro season after being a journeyman ILB in his way out of the league. But we couldn’t tag him because we had to tag Adams because he said he would never play for this GM again.
Oh, I see.
We’re back to the Gutebumst narrative. I had almost forgot about the post-loss narrative du jour.
Joe Barry doing a fine job. It’s the players and, ultimately, Gutebumst. Got it.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 21:31
by lupedafiasco
Two things can be true at once. Barry is a bad DC and the players on the field are bad.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 21:34
by Pckfn23
How did we beat the Lions, Chargers, and Chiefs then?
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 21:57
by Cdragon
Actually Rogers had 8 triple digit games in 08 so Love should get there.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 22:06
by APB
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 21:34
How did we beat the Lions, Chargers, and Chiefs then?
Those were November players. They were obviously better.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 19 Dec 2023 04:52
by dsr
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:32
What is the answer to stopping Godwin in the slot? Do you play Nixon there who has been a really bad nickel corner most of the season? Do you bring inside one of your boundary CBs who aren’t even really that great at playing outside? Do you bring down someone from your thin and already very weak S room? Do we continue trying LBs? Do we double him and leave Stokes to get fried by Evans again? Do we just all out blitz and still leave single coverage against Godwin?
You have better ideas than I do about what they could have done, even if you think they wouldn't have worked. But then, we're not paid to make them work. I can well believe that neither you nor I nor the defensive coordinator knew what to do about it, which is why I get paid nothing and you get paid nothing - but why does he get paid a small fortune?
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 19 Dec 2023 06:30
by APB
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:33
APB wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 10:27
No words...except wtf.
One safety THIRTY-FIVE yards off the LOS would be a hair-brained player issue. Two Safeties 35+ yards off the LOS begs for the DC to lose his job because that is what they were coached to do.
Well, according to our resident forum expert there was nothing that could be done. Barry's hands were tied because 1) he's a bad DC and 2) every single defensive player is also bad leaving Barry no viable coverage options. Baker f'ing Mayfield and the Bucs offense was just too talented and resourceful to be competently defended. The defensive alignment we see here is the inevitable result of Gutebumst and his poor drafting and FA signings over the past gabillion years. It's all they had in the bag of tricks which is why we saw this (and similar) alignment on play after play after play....unavoidable.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 19 Dec 2023 06:42
by lupedafiasco
dsr wrote: ↑19 Dec 2023 04:52
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 19:32
What is the answer to stopping Godwin in the slot? Do you play Nixon there who has been a really bad nickel corner most of the season? Do you bring inside one of your boundary CBs who aren’t even really that great at playing outside? Do you bring down someone from your thin and already very weak S room? Do we continue trying LBs? Do we double him and leave Stokes to get fried by Evans again? Do we just all out blitz and still leave single coverage against Godwin?
You have better ideas than I do about what they could have done, even if you think they wouldn't have worked. But then, we're not paid to make them work. I can well believe that neither you nor I nor the defensive coordinator knew what to do about it, which is why I get paid nothing and you get paid nothing - but why does he get paid a small fortune?
The NFL is buddy league. People just hire their friends. Matt’s not the only one who does it.
I thought Barry actually put Campbell in position to make a ton of plays and he whiffed every time.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 19 Dec 2023 06:47
by Yoop
that looks farther north then Escanaba, I think he's on the north side of Happy Rock,( Gladstone) possibly closer even to Speedy Creek
(Rapid River)
one of the funniest moments happened about 4 or so games back ( hard to remember, our defenses look identically terrible game to game) was when I saw Owens at the snap of the ball sprinting 25 yrds deeper then any other player on the field, I wish I could find a clip, thats coaching, no one would do that without being told to.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 19 Dec 2023 06:47
by lupedafiasco
APB wrote: ↑19 Dec 2023 06:30
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 20:33
APB wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 10:27
No words...except wtf.
One safety THIRTY-FIVE yards off the LOS would be a hair-brained player issue. Two Safeties 35+ yards off the LOS begs for the DC to lose his job because that is what they were coached to do.
Well, according to our resident forum expert there was nothing that could be done. Barry's hands were tied because 1) he's a bad DC and 2) every single defensive player is also bad leaving Barry no viable coverage options. Baker f'ing Mayfield and the Bucs offense was just too talented and resourceful to be competently defended. The defensive alignment we see here is the inevitable result of Gutebumst and his poor drafting and FA signings over the past gabillion years. It's all they had in the bag of tricks which is why we saw this (and similar) alignment on play after play after play....unavoidable.
Time really is a flat circle. I bet you were one of the people bashing the DC for having Ladarius Gunter and Dumbarious Randall as starting CBs.