Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333

This is actually a bigger hurdle to work around than worrying about 2023 dead cap.

NCF wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 06:31

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333

This is actually a bigger hurdle to work around than worrying about 2023 dead cap.

the only way around this that I can see, is that we do a under the table signed document that we promise to pay Aaron so much a year of everything we owe, plus a handsome gratuity after he retires, that way his affect on the salary cap till then will be negligible, just make it look as though Aaron himself decided to take a lower deal to help the team, which actually would be true, everyone cheats now days, it's cheat, or get left in the dust of other cheaters

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Is there some rule I am missing? Why is it all or nothing? Why can't we convert a portion of Aaron's base salary or roster bonus and turn it into a signing bonus?

I don't need to defer $14 million. But maybe $4 or $5 million.

go pak go wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 07:23

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Is there some rule I am missing? Why is it all or nothing? Why can't we convert a portion of Aaron's base salary or roster bonus and turn it into a signing bonus?

I don't need to defer $14 million. But maybe $4 or $5 million.

There isn't and it's not. We could certainly go that route.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Yea, I don’t see 2023 as an issue at all with Aaron.

It is all 2021 and 2022. I don’t know, I’d just commit to him through 2023, financially and contractually and spread out that $$ to how it makes most sense for us, throwing in a other basically dummy year in 2024.

BF004 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 07:53

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Yea, I don’t see 2023 as an issue at all with Aaron.

It is all 2021 and 2022. I don’t know, I’d just commit to him through 2023, financially and contractually and spread out that $$ to how it makes most sense for us, throwing in a other basically dummy year in 2024.

If I'm Aaron, I don't know how much I would want to give the Packers a "dummy" year. He ain't no dummy either. A dummy year is GREAT for the Packers but not great for Rodgers.

I would much rather be a free agent in 2024 and choose where I play rather than have a base salary of $40 million in 2024 with little dead cap and allow the Packers choose where I play based on the highest bidder.

To me, sh*t is going to start getting real after the 2022 season. Love will have sat for 3 years by then and at that time the internal Packers at least will know if he's ready or if he has the capability to be ready. Love will know it. Rodgers will know it. The Packers will know it. The offseason of 2023 is likely when actual decisions of intent or decisions themselves will need to start happening.

Until then, I think it's a situation of do what we need to do to try and bring a ring home. A Lombardi will make all of these decisions significantly easier. Because at least then it has the impression of "we accomplished our mission"

I mean a dummy year is just the product of the actuality of all contracts, minus fully guaranteed ones.

Just the limitations for a detrimental dead cap in the final year of a contract can’t exist. All I was implying.

go pak go wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 08:01

To me, sh*t is going to start getting real after the 2022 season. Love will have sat for 3 years by then and at that time the internal Packers at least will know if he's ready or if he has the capability to be ready. Love will know it. Rodgers will know it. The Packers will know it. The offseason of 2023 is likely when actual decisions of intent or decisions themselves will need to start happening.

I agree. They have two more years to make up their minds, but if they are going to give Jordan Love a shot, he is the opening day starter in 2023, IMHO. Also sets the Packers up to trade Rodgers with limited cap ramifications. They can get something for him and amicably find his new destination. I wouldn't push it as hard as they did with Favre, but as long as it's outside the division, I would be fine with wherever he wants to go.

NCF wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 08:08

go pak go wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 08:01

To me, sh*t is going to start getting real after the 2022 season. Love will have sat for 3 years by then and at that time the internal Packers at least will know if he's ready or if he has the capability to be ready. Love will know it. Rodgers will know it. The Packers will know it. The offseason of 2023 is likely when actual decisions of intent or decisions themselves will need to start happening.

I agree. They have two more years to make up their minds, but if they are going to give Jordan Love a shot, he is the opening day starter in 2023, IMHO. Also sets the Packers up to trade Rodgers with limited cap ramifications. They can get something for him and amicably find his new destination. I wouldn't push it as hard as they did with Favre, but as long as it's outside the division, I would be fine with wherever he wants to go.

I agree. And again, all of this makes it a lot easier for every party to swallow if we get a ring. Because the mission was accomplished.

That's why losing in 2020 hurt so bad. It just puts all that much more pressure in 2021 and 2022. But I too kind of have it in my head that we likely have Rodgers for 2 more seasons unless the internal Packers don't like what they see in Love.

BF004 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 07:53

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Yea, I don’t see 2023 as an issue at all with Aaron.

It is all 2021 and 2022. I don’t know, I’d just commit to him through 2023, financially and contractually and spread out that $$ to how it makes most sense for us, throwing in a other basically dummy year in 2024.

Like I said, last resort. It can be done but we are either biting off a huge cap hit some year if we run with him through 2023 or eating a bunch of cap if we cut him at some point before the contract ends. I really don't think it is viable that we prorate his roster bonus and base salary for 2021 and up his cap hit in 2022 to $47 million. That makes adding a year to his contract or guaranteeing all or most (better?) of his current contract and prorating it all as a signing bonus

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 08:27

BF004 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 07:53

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

15 Feb 2021 21:15

I wonder if we could take Aaron's base salary and roster bonus in 2021 and turn it into a signing bonus and spread that over the next 3 years...

That would be $21,850,000 or $7,283,333 a year. It would save $14,566,666 in 2021, but make 2022 a cap hit of $47,135,333. It also makes that dead cap more than $30 million if we cut him after 2021 to avoid that cap hit.

Ya, talking through that I am still on it being a last resort.

Yea, I don’t see 2023 as an issue at all with Aaron.

It is all 2021 and 2022. I don’t know, I’d just commit to him through 2023, financially and contractually and spread out that $$ to how it makes most sense for us, throwing in a other basically dummy year in 2024.

Like I said, last resort. It can be done but we are either biting off a huge cap hit some year if we run with him through 2023 or eating a bunch of cap if we cut him at some point before the contract ends. I really don't think it is viable that we prorate his roster bonus and base salary for 2021 and up his cap hit in 2022 to $47 million. That makes adding a year to his contract or guaranteeing all or most (better?) of his current contract and prorating it all as a signing bonus

I think you can get around it by doing the same thing next season. Convert salary to bonus and kick another $7M or so to 2023. That means cap hits of $40M in 2022 and dead cap of $16M in 2023. That is more dead cap than I would like, but I could live with it.

If we only convert half of what you suggested we save $10M in 2021 the knock on consequences are much more feasible.

2023 already has a $28,852,000 cap hit. $2,852,000 of that is guaranteed. We added $7,283,333 from restructuring in 2021. If we keep him for 2023 we get a cap hit of $36,153,333. If we cut him after 2022, that would be a dead cap of $10,135,333. This all is simply by structuring 2021 to save some cap and still doesn't deal with the $47,135,333 cap hit in 2022.

So let's take a look at kicking the can in 2022 to smooth out that $47,135,333 cap hit. Rodgers has a base salary of $25,000,000. That's what we have to work with. To the extreme we could convert ALL of it to a signing bonus and save $12,500,000 in 2021 and kick that same amount to 2023. It would reduce the cap hit in 2022 to $34,653,333. Very manageable. What does that do to the 2023 cap hit or dead cap? Add that $12,500,000 to $36,153,333 for $47,153,333. Dead cap would be $22,635,333. Then here is where extension comes in, but there is no way Rodgers is extending his contract without us adding dollars.

Regardless of what we do it will put us in a bind either with dead cap or with cap hit in future years. It can be done, for sure, but again last resort type of thing and we damn well better win it all in 2021, which is far for a guarantee regardless of who all we sign.

The best option is to restructure Rodgers and push cap to 2022. Then next offseason you restructure again into 2023. Why wouldn’t he do it? He gets guaranteed money in a signing bonus every time he does it. Then extend him. In this draft you make amends for stupidity and trade Love. Maybe go to the Colts and say we will give them Love and we swap 1st and 2nd round picks or maybe just send him for a 2nd round.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 09:22

we damn wall better win it all in 2021, which is far for a guarantee regardless of who all we sign.

Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I want the FO to do what they have to do to feel like our team has the best chance to win. I don't think they can do nothing and say they gave their best effort. If we try and fail, so be it, but make sure you feel really damn good about the team you put together. I guess all of this is to say, don't half ass it otherwise don't bother trying at all.

NCF wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 09:27

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 09:22

we damn wall better win it all in 2021, which is far for a guarantee regardless of who all we sign.

Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I want the FO to do what they have to do to feel like our team has the best chance to win. I don't think they can do nothing and say they gave their best effort. If we try and fail, so be it, but make sure you feel really damn good about the team you put together. I guess all of this is to say, don't half ass it otherwise don't bother trying at all.

Ahhh. My biggest complaint about the Packers front office.

NCF wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 09:27

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 09:22

we damn wall better win it all in 2021, which is far for a guarantee regardless of who all we sign.

Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I want the FO to do what they have to do to feel like our team has the best chance to win. I don't think they can do nothing and say they gave their best effort. If we try and fail, so be it, but make sure you feel really damn good about the team you put together. I guess all of this is to say, don't half ass it otherwise don't bother trying at all.

Over the last 2 years and including this offseason, they have already proven they are unwilling to do nothing. PLENTY of moves that have strove to do something and the latest being restructuring of Bakhtiari. There are a lot more low hanging contract fruit before a Rodgers restructure seems necessary.

FFS, now it's do all we can to win, yet we support the drafting of the clip board holder, to funny.

Rodgers said he wants assurance that he will be allowed to play out his contract, obviously that translates to at minimum guaranteeing his contract.

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 10:27

FFS, now it's do all we can to win

No. It's do enough to give you a good shot to win, not all we can do to win. Not bending words here, either, because I think there is A LOT of maneuverability between the two.

NCF wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 10:34

Yoop wrote: ↑

16 Feb 2021 10:27

FFS, now it's do all we can to win

No. It's do enough to give you a good shot to win, not all we can do to win. Not bending words here, either, because I think there is A LOT of maneuverability between the two.

we'll see, He said he wanted assurances, to me thats a guarantee to be able to play out his contract.

Look at the problem from the other angle: What do the Packers need to get to the SB?

#1 They need to fix the Oline.

With Bak recuperating, they have no one who can play LT except Jenkins and that means they can't put Jenkins at center. So they need to resign Linsley. Rodgers has already had a few concussions, and keeping Trunstyle Turner at LT is the best way I know of to end AR's career with another concussion. or for that matter another type of injury.

The Linsley resigned and Jenkins at LT for the first half of the season, they need to replace the LG. Fortunately they already have Runyan who solves that problem. Next is RG. Patrick is a small upgrade over Turner at RG and maybe Stepaniak can be even better. Alternately maybe Lane Taylor has 1 more year in him but the Packers could probably save some cap by cutting him.

And that leaves RT. Wagner is what he is, an average RT. Veldheer was an above average OT but he is not young and might be no better than Wagner now. Nijman is big and athletic but the Packers knew that both Wagner and Turner would need a lot of help against the Bucs and yet they started and Nijman did not - not inspiring. It is remotely possible that Runyan can play RT and if Stepaniak can start this is an option. But still, IMO, the Packers need to draft a starting RT in the worst way and if that means moving up in the first round, so be it.

So if all things fall right, the Packers go into 2021 with an improved Oline and Bak coming back midseason turns it into a top 5 Oline. Cutting Turner does not pay for Linsley but it pays for a big chunk of Linsley. Cutting both Turner and Wagner more than pays for Linsley.

#2 Then they need to bring back Jones. Top 5 RB's do not grow on trees and he is probably top 2 as a combination runner and receiver. As others have said, tag him and keep him. Williams can walk and they can use a mid round draft pick on the 3rd RB.

That leaves replacing King. Draft 3 CB's between rounds 2-7 and see what happens.

I don't see that it is necessary to restructure AR to do all this. Cutting Preston Smith and Turner and restructuring D. Adams is enough to do all of this and maybe still have enough for a FA.