Packers Huddle

APB wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 18:27

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 16:21

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 15:11

There is not a shred of innuendo, evidence, implication... that he would take less than being the highest paid player in the league, depending on how you choose to view Mahomes' weirdly structured 12-year contract. He has never opened that door. We don't need to "find out." It is done. It has been written and said; asked and answered. Aaron Rodgers does not play for less.

I will bet you one dollar that he does.
And the reasons he will are because that's aligned with what he really wants ( more Titles) and he no longer needs to measure his worth by his paycheck. Taking a top QB contract prevents him from attaining the goals he values more than his bank account. You don't need to argue your point any further, you've made a cogent and lucid argument above. Just let me know if you're in for $ 1.

edited to add: Rodgers said the regular season is where you earn your money, the playoffs/Championships are where you earn your legacy

You hit on thoughts I was having as I read @YoHoChecko’s post.

People change. Priorities change. Goals change.

What Rodgers prioritized his last extension may not be what he prioritizes this time ‘round. Yes, I get what Yoho is saying and history does support his rather strong assertion that Rodgers WILL NOT take less but as we all know, he is one complicated dude. It may be over-simplifying things to just assume Rodgers still covets beings the highest paid player at this point in his career. He’s got that distinction twice already and look what it’s got him.

I hope to everything good on this earth that Rodgers does change and says, "I will take $25 million cap hit a year." I just want 3 to 4 more good years in GB"

I would take that every day of the week.

I just ain't planning on it.

And for the most part, for Rodgers to have a significantly better cap hit, he will need to have years where he basically gets paid nothing because we already paid it to him in cash years ago. I think that will be his hardest sell. We are expensing cap hits in 2022 and beyond for money we paid him years ago. So to drop that cap number, eventually he will have to play a season and collect Lucas Patrick sized paychecks.

I hope he is okay with that. But he could also likely get a shot at a talented team PLUS money elsewhere. And I think that is just too much "best of both worlds" for him.

British wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:07

I can see that. The psychology of this is interesting. It's possible the best for both parties is they go their separate ways after the season.

But if they break up a SB winner you can imagine the meltdown in media land as the hot takes roll in.

Get ready for: "How could they end a Superbowl winning partnership! I don't care about the cap, you find a way to make it work!"

Oh yeah, totally. But I am ready for that. I think that is easier to pass and overcome than if he leaves without actually getting one.

If the team hires a new head coach, gets an MVP performance from the QB in year two, pushes the chips to the table to go all-in for the next year and gets an MVP-Super Bowl performance in year three, then the plan worked. They opened a window, and they maximized it. And then the window closed. It closed not just because of Rodgers, but because of the cap. And the decision was mutual. There're very few versions of this where Rodgers is mad to be sent packing. At this point, it's mostly, Rodgers stays if he wants to and leaves if he wants to; so there's not really a great person to be mad at. Yeah, you can say Rodgers left because the team drafted Love, but after getting him back for this season and making magic, that's 2 years in the rear-view, ya know?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:12

British wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:07

I can see that. The psychology of this is interesting. It's possible the best for both parties is they go their separate ways after the season.

But if they break up a SB winner you can imagine the meltdown in media land as the hot takes roll in.

Get ready for: "How could they end a Superbowl winning partnership! I don't care about the cap, you find a way to make it work!"

Oh yeah, totally. But I am ready for that. I think that is easier to pass and overcome than if he leaves without actually getting one.

If the team hires a new head coach, gets an MVP performance from the QB in year two, pushes the chips to the table to go all-in for the next year and gets an MVP-Super Bowl performance in year three, then the plan worked. They opened a window, and they maximized it. And then the window closed. It closed not just because of Rodgers, but because of the cap. And the decision was mutual. There're very few versions of this where Rodgers is mad to be sent packing. At this point, it's mostly, Rodgers stays if he wants to and leaves if he wants to; so there's not really a great person to be mad at. Yeah, you can say Rodgers left because the team drafted Love, but after getting him back for this season and making magic, that's 2 years in the rear-view, ya know?

100%.

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:10

But he could also likely get a shot at a talented team PLUS money elsewhere. And I think that is just too much "best of both worlds" for him.

Its not the best though.
Any place he goes, he doesn't have MLF or Gute or all of the teammates he loves or Packer Nation or Lambeau. He has to start over in a new city, build a relationship with a new front office, learn a new offense, acclimate to new team mates - and have his new WRs earn his trust.

That's a multi-year proposition. For reference, PManning went to a stacked Denver team and it took him 4 years and he lost one SB along the way

AR's nearing the end and he knows it. Money is no longer The Decider, because its not in short supply.
Winning games, winning Titles is - and he only has a few years left to burnish his legacy. And his legacy is very important to him.
There is no other opportunity in the NFL as good as Titletown for Rodgers for the next 2 seasons.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 22:41

Winning games, winning Titles is - and he only has a few years left to burnish his legacy. And his legacy is very important to him.
There is no other opportunity in the NFL as good as Titletown for Rodgers for the next 2 seasons.

Based on all the dooms day talk (probably fair talk) around the upcoming cap issues, im not sure the Packers will provide the BEST chance beyond this year. Rodgers is GREAT, he can adapt pretty quickly to most of the things you mentioned he will need adjusting to. Wherever he goes, he most likely becomes (g)od. In GB, part of the problem (in my opinion) is Rodgers believes he has earned the right to be the god of GB, why Mark Murphy still wants to retain that title. If he leaves, the coach, GM, and Owner will be pulling out the red carpet for him and bowing down...as they all know...in him...they have their best chance to win a title.

As for for the WRs and having them earn his trust...sure if they all suck. But that is unlikely. Rodgers has made JAGS look quality. If he goes to a team with a stud WR1 and WR2 or better yet, if Adams follows him to his new team...Hel be just fine...quickly.

Again, based on the current roster I do agree his best chance to win is here...but I keep hearing the current roster wont be around forever.

You mention Manning..but by my count...2 appearances and a legacy cementing ring is a very successful signing. Then there is the case of Brady...took about half a season for it all to come together and then win a SB. With the MVP coming to your town, anything is possible..and quickly.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 22:41

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:10

But he could also likely get a shot at a talented team PLUS money elsewhere. And I think that is just too much "best of both worlds" for him.

Its not the best though.
Any place he goes, he doesn't have MLF or Gute or all of the teammates he loves or Packer Nation or Lambeau. He has to start over in a new city, build a relationship with a new front office, learn a new offense, acclimate to new team mates - and have his new WRs earn his trust.

That's a multi-year proposition. For reference, PManning went to a stacked Denver team and it took him 4 years and he lost one SB along the way

AR's nearing the end and he knows it. Money is no longer The Decider, because its not in short supply.
Winning games, winning Titles is - and he only has a few years left to burnish his legacy. And his legacy is very important to him.
There is no other opportunity in the NFL as good as Titletown for Rodgers for the next 2 seasons.

We love MLF and rightly so.

But any team trading for Rodgers can hire Nathaniel Hackett to be Head Coach and our world beating OL coach Stenovitch to be OC. That's a pretty great start. They can keep the same system that Rodgers is used to.

Rodgers has turned undrafted WRs into stars. A team like Denver has the cap space to sign Devante, MVS, Tonyan and Cobb (who Green Bay won't keep at his 9m cap hit). Add those to Denver's Jeudy, Sutton, Patrick and Fant. Would be the best receiver corp Rodgers has ever had.

Denver's D has conceded the 3rd fewest points in the league. They have the cap space to retain it. The Packers D, already inferior to Denver, will need to be dismantled to keep both Rodgers and Adams. Some of Z, Preston, Lowry, Rasul, Devondre wouldn't be back.

Manning was worse than Rodgers is and got to 2 Superbowls. Brady won it his first time in a new city. Rodgers won't believe it will take him long to turn a new team into an immediate contender.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 22:41

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:10

But he could also likely get a shot at a talented team PLUS money elsewhere. And I think that is just too much "best of both worlds" for him.

Its not the best though.
Any place he goes, he doesn't have MLF or Gute or all of the teammates he loves or Packer Nation or Lambeau. He has to start over in a new city, build a relationship with a new front office, learn a new offense, acclimate to new team mates - and have his new WRs earn his trust.

That's a multi-year proposition. For reference, PManning went to a stacked Denver team and it took him 4 years and he lost one SB along the way

AR's nearing the end and he knows it. Money is no longer The Decider, because its not in short supply.
Winning games, winning Titles is - and he only has a few years left to burnish his legacy. And his legacy is very important to him.
There is no other opportunity in the NFL as good as Titletown for Rodgers for the next 2 seasons.

I mean this is basically a copy and paste of my arguments last spring and exactly why I was so mad at Rodgers because GB was clearly his best situation. Yet that didn't make think the grass is greener at other places until he realized the only place he could play was GB because the Packers wouldn't let him leave.

Maybe I'm naive but you can't have it both ways. You can't go by what Aaron did or said in the past and say this is going to happen when he is saying and doing much different things this year than in the past. He is saying NOW that he is appreciating the walking on and off the field, the people of Lambeau, etc. He also has said "staying in Green Bay is definitely an option, but obviously the contract and cap issues have to be worked out."

What I am saying is that all of us agree the only way to pay him a top salary is to get rid of almost every other top player, and I'm pretty sure he knows that as well. So he has 3 options:
1. Take a team friendly deal to help keep the majority of the team together or;
2. Demand a trade or;
3. Demand top dollar and play with a gutted team and hope to carry them to the playoffs.

I'm guessing from his own words that he prefers Option 1. No rose colored glasses just listening to what he says he values right now. In a couple of months we'll know if Hub Arkush is right or if he really wants to go out like Elway.

Also, there is the chance that Gutey is like YoHo and justs says bye-bye, thanks for the 2 years but don't let the door hit you on the way out, I WANT PICKS!

Is he saying different things?

packman114 wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2022 11:28

Maybe I'm naive but you can't have it both ways. You can't go by what Aaron did or said in the past and say this is going to happen when he is saying and doing much different things this year than in the past. He is saying NOW that he is appreciating the walking on and off the field, the people of Lambeau, etc. He also has said "staying in Green Bay is definitely an option, but obviously the contract and cap issues have to be worked out."

What I am saying is that all of us agree the only way to pay him a top salary is to get rid of almost every other top player, and I'm pretty sure he knows that as well. So he has 3 options:
1. Take a team friendly deal to help keep the majority of the team together or;
2. Demand a trade or;
3. Demand top dollar and play with a gutted team and hope to carry them to the playoffs.

I'm guessing from his own words that he prefers Option 1. No rose colored glasses just listening to what he says he values right now. In a couple of months we'll know if Hub Arkush is right or if he really wants to go out like Elway.

Also, there is the chance that Gutey is like YoHo and justs says bye-bye, thanks for the 2 years but don't let the door hit you on the way out, I WANT PICKS!

I mean he literally said these same things every week on the Pat McAfee show in 2020. There is zero change in his tone or his words from one year ago. This is why the "I can't play for GB again" last spring was such a shock to the system.

The attitude and outlook from Rodgers from August 2021 - now is the exact same attitude and outlook from Rodgers from August 2020 - January 24, 2021 until he lost to Tampa and dropped the bomb "I don't know what my future holds" in his post game presser.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2022 11:51

packman114 wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2022 11:28

Maybe I'm naive but you can't have it both ways. You can't go by what Aaron did or said in the past and say this is going to happen when he is saying and doing much different things this year than in the past. He is saying NOW that he is appreciating the walking on and off the field, the people of Lambeau, etc. He also has said "staying in Green Bay is definitely an option, but obviously the contract and cap issues have to be worked out."

What I am saying is that all of us agree the only way to pay him a top salary is to get rid of almost every other top player, and I'm pretty sure he knows that as well. So he has 3 options:
1. Take a team friendly deal to help keep the majority of the team together or;
2. Demand a trade or;
3. Demand top dollar and play with a gutted team and hope to carry them to the playoffs.

I'm guessing from his own words that he prefers Option 1. No rose colored glasses just listening to what he says he values right now. In a couple of months we'll know if Hub Arkush is right or if he really wants to go out like Elway.

Also, there is the chance that Gutey is like YoHo and justs says bye-bye, thanks for the 2 years but don't let the door hit you on the way out, I WANT PICKS!

I mean he literally said these same things every week on the Pat McAfee show in 2020. There is zero change in his tone or his words from one year ago. This is why the "I can't play for GB again" last spring was such a shock to the system.

The attitude and outlook from Rodgers from August 2021 - now is the exact same attitude and outlook from Rodgers from August 2020 - January 24, 2021 until he lost to Tampa and dropped the bomb "I don't know what my future holds" in his post game presser.

The funny thing about that is, as consistent as he has been, it has been the outlook of fans that has generally swung from undecided, to our God, to get rid of that bum, and back again to our God. I can tell you exactly where this cycle of fan appreciation is headed if he walks off Lambeau Field in defeat, again, this year.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Jan 2022 06:19

I mean this is basically a copy and paste of my arguments last spring

I did not copy and paste anything.
However, If you agree with me you're obviously quite brilliant.

Rodgers should take a market value contract from the Packers.

If that is not on the table he should take market value from a suitor with the most talented roster.

I want to bring this thread back to talk more about specific cap maneuvering. I need some clarifications from people smarter than me when it comes to the cap and how it works.

I know we need to be under the cap by start of league year on 3/16. So we need to cut approximately $40M by then. What options do we have before that date?

We can't make trades before then. But can we start making cuts and do restructures before then? Like extend Jaire, or restructure contracts of Bak and Clark?

I want to start working the numbers but I'm not 100% sure what all can be done. If we can cut and redo deals before then, I can start playing around.

Here are a few of the important dates...
3/1-7 - Combine
3/8 - start tagging guys
3/14-16 - Legal tampering of UFAs
3/16 - League year starts, FA begins, trading begins, must be under the cap
3/27-30 - League meetings
4/18 - offseason workouts can start
4/22 - RFA time
4/28 - Draft

The other thing I haven't gotten answered yet is if Rodgers retires before the league year begins. So if he retires the day after the Super Bowl. Paperwork all goes through. When do we see that cap relief? Is it there for us on 3/16 or sometime thereafter?

I would think we get it on 3/16. If so, that helps us cap-wise with potentially keeping someone like Adams (among other moves). Of course doesn't help getting other compensation via trade, but not worried about that here.

paco wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2022 09:13

The other thing I haven't gotten answered yet is if Rodgers retires before the league year begins. So if he retires the day after the Super Bowl. Paperwork all goes through. When do we see that cap relief? Is it there for us on 3/16 or sometime thereafter?

I would think we get it on 3/16. If so, that helps us cap-wise with potentially keeping someone like Adams (among other moves). Of course doesn't help getting other compensation via trade, but not worried about that here.

I saw you ask Ken Ingalls this question. I think I know the answer, but not positive. I think anything that occurs between now and then is accounted for immediately, but it only "counts" or truly matters beginning 3/16. Much like cutting players to get under the cap by the start of the new league year, it all happens real time, but there is the deadline to make sure total accounting is under the cap by that date.

NCF wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2022 09:29

paco wrote: ↑

25 Jan 2022 09:13

The other thing I haven't gotten answered yet is if Rodgers retires before the league year begins. So if he retires the day after the Super Bowl. Paperwork all goes through. When do we see that cap relief? Is it there for us on 3/16 or sometime thereafter?

I would think we get it on 3/16. If so, that helps us cap-wise with potentially keeping someone like Adams (among other moves). Of course doesn't help getting other compensation via trade, but not worried about that here.

I saw you ask Ken Ingalls this question. I think I know the answer, but not positive. I think anything that occurs between now and then is accounted for immediately, but it only "counts" or truly matters beginning 3/16. Much like cutting players to get under the cap by the start of the new league year, it all happens real time, but there is the deadline to make sure total accounting is under the cap by that date.

Yeah, I asked Joel Corry too, but no response yet. Until we know exactly how that stuff lands, its hard to play with the numbers. Maybe I'll just call Russ Ball and have a sit down.

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 22:41

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Jan 2022 19:10

But he could also likely get a shot at a talented team PLUS money elsewhere. And I think that is just too much "best of both worlds" for him.

Its not the best though.
Any place he goes, he doesn't have MLF or Gute or all of the teammates he loves or Packer Nation or Lambeau. He has to start over in a new city, build a relationship with a new front office, learn a new offense, acclimate to new team mates - and have his new WRs earn his trust.

That's a multi-year proposition. For reference, PManning went to a stacked Denver team and it took him 4 years and he lost one SB along the way

AR's nearing the end and he knows it. Money is no longer The Decider, because its not in short supply.
Winning games, winning Titles is - and he only has a few years left to burnish his legacy. And his legacy is very important to him.
There is no other opportunity in the NFL as good as Titletown for Rodgers for the next 2 seasons.

Yeah, but if he goes to Denver they have enough cap to pay him AND pay Adams AND Tonyan. In addition to a very good D, Rodgers then has a better group of WR's than he had in GB, 2 top TE's and a big RB who averaged 4.5 yards per carry. He now is on a legitimate SB contender. This is a 14-3 team.

I am sorry, but your assertion that GB offers the best opportunity for him does not hold water. With what the Packers have to do to keep Rodgers and not lose both Jenkins and Jaire a year form now, the Packers are at best a 9-8 team. More likely they do not even win the NFC North and miss the playoffs.

I wish I could love something as much as Skeptic loves Robert Tonyan some day.