Steelers @ Packers GDT 10/3/2021 at 3:25 CST

[YoHoChecko]

Maybe some teams can muster a somewhat effective running game against those looks, but our OL is not built for that.

This has been a really nice and good discussion on run strategy and its point.

But this last part here is what I'm beginning to disagree with. I think our OL IS being built to run against heavy fronts. Myers and Newman and Jenkins as a 3-man interior is a group built to move people without sacrificing athleticism. Nagler was pointing it out in a presser that they seem to be doing more... power? gap? I dunno OL terms. But whatever. We are being built to run even when teams dare us not to, but I think that's a longer--term plan for a post-Rodgers world. It has a benefit now, but Rodgers may be more prone to change a play to one he likes, so I understand why we may not see it as much.

[NCF]

If anyone listened to Andy Herman today, good and bad regarding the defense.

The Good:

Jaire and Stokes played even better than it looked on TV. High grades, questionable calls against them.

The Bad:

The DL played significantly worse than it looked on TV. Terrible grades and unsustainable level of play from that group. Tyler Lancaster played the best game of his career and is now on the COVID list. This should definitely be a story for this week. I think Slayton and Heflin play a lot this week.

[YoHoChecko]

The Bad:

The DL played significantly worse than it looked on TV. Terrible grades and unsustainable level of play from that group. Tyler Lancaster played the best game of his career and is now on the COVID list. This should definitely be a story for this week. I think Slayton and Heflin play a lot this week.

I guess i have to watch the video, but like, how much credence do I put in this? Terrible grades? But the results were excellent. I saw penetration, I saw pressures, I saw edge containment, I saw tackles, and the run game results were good. And the pressure results were better than they've been this season.

I know, you said not as good as it looked on tv--but it can't neutralize what I saw on tv, either. And what I saw matched a number of outcome goals, as well. At what point do I stop thinking about subjective grades by outsiders who don't know assignments and start thinking about the outcomes being totally acceptable even against teams with solid to strong OLines?

[NCF]

The Bad:

The DL played significantly worse than it looked on TV. Terrible grades and unsustainable level of play from that group. Tyler Lancaster played the best game of his career and is now on the COVID list. This should definitely be a story for this week. I think Slayton and Heflin play a lot this week.

I guess i have to watch the video, but like, how much credence do I put in this? Terrible grades? But the results were excellent. I saw penetration, I saw pressures, I saw edge containment, I saw tackles, and the run game results were good. And the pressure results were better than they've been this season.

I know, you said not as good as it looked on tv--but it can't neutralize what I saw on tv, either. And what I saw matched a number of outcome goals, as well. At what point do I stop thinking about subjective grades by outsiders who don't know assignments and start thinking about the outcomes being totally acceptable even against teams with solid to strong OLines?

I think sustainability is the big thing. Are we going to get Tyler Lancaster's career best each week? Probably not. Certainly not this week as he likely can't even play. Is Dean Lowry going to suddenly not suck? Is Kingsley Keke going to improve? Yeah, Kenny Clark is awesome, but 60+ snaps... is that sustainable?

Throw the grades out. I'm just saying I will be keeping a close eye on it this week and watching for regression because they have played 6 quarters of pretty decent football, collectively. I have a feeling Pittsburgh is going to come in and want to challenge the group right from the first snap.

[go pak go]

The Bad:

The DL played significantly worse than it looked on TV. Terrible grades and unsustainable level of play from that group. Tyler Lancaster played the best game of his career and is now on the COVID list. This should definitely be a story for this week. I think Slayton and Heflin play a lot this week.

I guess i have to watch the video, but like, how much credence do I put in this? Terrible grades? But the results were excellent. I saw penetration, I saw pressures, I saw edge containment, I saw tackles, and the run game results were good. And the pressure results were better than they've been this season.

I know, you said not as good as it looked on tv--but it can't neutralize what I saw on tv, either. And what I saw matched a number of outcome goals, as well. At what point do I stop thinking about subjective grades by outsiders who don't know assignments and start thinking about the outcomes being totally acceptable even against teams with solid to strong OLines?

When I rewatched the game, this is basically what I saw:

Kenny Clark - words cannot describe how freaking good he was last Sunday. He was soooooooo good. He distrupted everything. Only thing he needs to work on is finishing.

Preston Smith - did a great job with outside contain. Made plays on the pass rush especially in the first half but that was also because of coverage lapses.
Tyler Lancaster - held his men well. Especially in the run game


Rashan Gary - emerged in the 2nd half. This has been a trend I have seen from him. He seems to benefit as the game goes on. And he is the guy to watch when it's 3rd and long and you need a play.

TJ Slayton - he had two snaps. And by god did he take advantage of those snaps.

Oren Burks - I want him over Ty Summers in there. And i also want him on more unique situations. The light bulb is blinking. I get confused why fans were so over Kamal Martin but little fanfare on what Burks has shown. He has better athleticism and he is starting to put it to use.

De'Vondre Campbell - this dude is a freaking baller. I am so excited for what he brings and I want to lock him up. He is literally everywhere. Notice that teams can't dump off to the RB much any more. Notice that the shallow middle isn't used as much as it used to be. I get Bengals games here in Cincy and Logan Wilson has been insane. But honestly Campbell is there too if he just caught two extra balls.

Dean Lowry - meh. But not bad meh

Keke - literally never saw him.

[YoHoChecko]

I mean I think what we have here is that Clark is great. Lowry is pretty good. Lancaster is solid in a certain role but limited. Keke is bad.

Slaton is young and developing. Helfin is energetic and active.

Z is an interior rusher who is injured and will return.

These statements all seem fairly reliable week to week. It leads to results that will vary some by opponent and situation. But, as I've said from the beginning, aside from QB scrambles, it's presented a manageable run D and it has left us with a need at interior pass rush, which hopefully Z can provide since Keke can't.

The Steelers may well see this as our weakness and attack. But their weakness is OL, so they're not well set up to do so successfully.

[go pak go]

I mean I think what we have here is that Clark is great. Lowry is pretty good. Lancaster is solid in a certain role but limited. Keke is bad.

Slaton is young and developing. Helfin is energetic and active.

Z is an interior rusher who is injured and will return.

These statements all seem fairly reliable week to week. It leads to results that will vary some by opponent and situation. But, as I've said from the beginning, aside from QB scrambles, it's presented a manageable run D and it has left us with a need at interior pass rush, which hopefully Z can provide since Keke can't.

The Steelers may well see this as our weakness and attack. But their weakness is OL, so they're not well set up to do so successfully.

I think we have Clark who is insanely good and our defensive front 7 is completely dependent on him with the rest not pulling their weight to be honest. I have confidence in Lowry as he seems to ascend each year to being "pretty good".

I am most disappointed in Keke. Clearly the Packers had him as a prominent role and it just looks like he is a major, major bust this year. Significant steps back.

Like it requires Clark to play at insane levels at 90% snaps for this defense to be a top 10 unit. And I wish it weren't that dependent.

[Drj820]

Lowry is pretty good

I dispute this one. The rest,

[Yoop]

Lowry is pretty good

I dispute this one. The rest,

I'd say he's inconsistent, he did have about 45 tackles last year, so in that sense he's a OK run stopper.

I also think many DL guys take about 3 years to develop good tech, most don't just step from DL college play to the pro game and do well year 1

the bust rate for DL is one of the highest compared to other positions.

[NCF]

Lowry is pretty good

I dispute this one. The rest,

I'm with you. Lowry is playable, but bad. Keke has been as close to unplayable as you can get.

[NCF]

[BF004]

Really kind of scares me with Jenkins out.

I feel like we've seen this when you throw someone out at random (Nijman), but now with a full game tape to rip apart, they can be exploited.

And Pittsburgh has some dogs. I like the same gameplan, moreorless, get the ball out and run right at them. Little playaction, don't waste 1-2 seconds for aaron not reading the coverage and not being able to get the ball out on rhythm.

[Drj820]

Really kind of scares me with Jenkins out.

I feel like we've seen this when you throw someone out at random (Nijman), but now with a full game tape to rip apart, they can be exploited.

And Pittsburgh has some dogs. I like the same gameplan, moreorless, get the ball out and run right at them. Little playaction, don't waste 1-2 seconds for aaron not reading the coverage and not being able to get the ball out on rhythm.

I certainly respect their defense, and the people we have out on our makes it worse. I just have no respect for their O and feel like our D SHOULD keep them from scoring enough to where we win even if our O is “slowed”.

[NCF]

Really kind of scares me with Jenkins out.

I feel like we've seen this when you throw someone out at random (Nijman), but now with a full game tape to rip apart, they can be exploited.

And Pittsburgh has some dogs. I like the same gameplan, moreorless, get the ball out and run right at them. Little playaction, don't waste 1-2 seconds for aaron not reading the coverage and not being able to get the ball out on rhythm.

I feel like MVS is a big loss. Just no one to open things up. Expect Pittsburgh to sit tight on everything we like to do.

[Crazylegs Starks]

So are we finally going to see more Cobb and A. Rodgers this week? Or will they go TE heavy and get Lewis and Deguara more touches?

[Backthepack4ever]

Like we said last week that the SF d is good but not what they were I feel that with Pitt as well. They have some real good players then a big drop off at spots. Cbs are trash. Cam heyward scares me the most. Dude has played at All pro level for along time and the best interior DL we have seen by miles. The young guys will get tested

Stopping the edge guys you do what you did last week. Help and get the ball out. I also think some RPO could work. Option off these downhill edge rushers.

I'm also with the camp that outside of Clark the DL has been bad. Keke was my dude to bust out... So far just bust.
Lowry is about as bad a starter you will find. He seems to always be on the ground. If this group can just play to respectable level this D could be solid.

Staying with 38-17 Pack. Need to beat bad teams at home

[NCF]

i think its good to run into a brick wall a time or two just so the defense knows they cant just show a look, and all of a sudden they no longer have to worry about you running the ball. It keeps defenses honest.

Plus I like being smart, but I also like dictating terms. If we want to slam the ball down your throat today, we dont care what formation you are in until you prove you can stop it. Then, if you stop it and stay in that 8 man box...get ready for playaction over the top.

Runs that do nothing set up play action and more of the offense even if the run isnt working great. I like those plays.

I just, personally, don't think it works that way. Running into a brick wall doesn't open up play action, running effectively opens up play action. Maybe some teams can muster a somewhat effective running game against those looks, but our OL is not built for that.

Look at the contrast between the New Orleans game and San Francisco. Very heavy PA against New Orleans and virtually non-existent against San Francisco. If we want to get back to that heavy PA scheme that we ran last year so effectively, we need to get more out of the running game... not just volume, but effectiveness.

I was so impressed with the SF game plan. The run game did enough against a very good front. A very good front 7. I can't remember a game where our running backs produced that much against a front 7 with an imposing ILB. SF has the style of defenses that keep Jones under 40 yards and that didn't happen.

But back to my point, I was very happy we didn't do heavy PA. We finally adjusted and most importantly Rodgers adjusted. We have noticed for years and years his hesitancy to throw the ball quick and that was not the case last Sunday. I don't expect that to be something every week, but I loved that we did it there and I do hope we sprinkle it in more and more.

But yes. Right now defenses are appearing to play us "more afraid" by getting beat through the air than through the ground. It's a long season. We may see an evolution with that. The biggest thing as you stated is don't play into the defense's hands. If they are playing a light box...run it. If they are playing a heavy box, kill em with MVS and Adams in space and over the top.

We have the flexibility in personnel that any offense dreams of. We can literally beat you in any way.

Funny, this actually came up in LaFleur's presser today... sounds like he is more in camp run well, rather than run just because.

[lupedafiasco]

Really kind of scares me with Jenkins out.

I feel like we've seen this when you throw someone out at random (Nijman), but now with a full game tape to rip apart, they can be exploited.

And Pittsburgh has some dogs. I like the same gameplan, moreorless, get the ball out and run right at them. Little playaction, don't waste 1-2 seconds for aaron not reading the coverage and not being able to get the ball out on rhythm.

I feel like MVS is a big loss. Just no one to open things up. Expect Pittsburgh to sit tight on everything we like to do.

Yeah my concern as well. As inconsistent as MVS is we did that deep threat. It’s going to be a big week for the WRs not named Adams to win their one on one matchups without a real LT and field stretcher.

[Pugger]

I don't work for the Packers though I work for the networks! So he's still the guy!

CBS?

[Pugger]

The Lazard hatred is just stupid at this point @lupedafiasco.

Did I say something incorrect?

well his blocking is valuable, and he did have a nice sideline catch to start the show last week, thing is it takes him longer to separate, when the OL gives Rodgers time thats fine, if not he runs decoy routes.

I don't know if someone here or on another forum said Lazard should be a TE...?