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Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 14:43
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 12:15
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 11:46
in our game Adams was doubled as soon as he left the los, so was Jones at times, SF decided Adams wouldn't beat them and kept him in check, the more dangerous receivers ya have the harder it is for a defense to defend, cripes any grade schooler would tell you this.
When a player is doubled, it means you likely will have someone else who can find holes in zones, a higher likelihood of a busted coverage, or have a favorable checkdown situation. And lord forbit this REALLY happens when two players are doubled (which you like to point out Jones and Adams were doubled a lot of times)
All of these events occurred in our playoff loss. It's that our QB simply didn't throw them the ball.
I don't expect perfection every play. But like the Rams, I do expect our MVP QB and the playmakers we had to be able to produce at least 20 points. And they didn't get anywhere close to that.
yes the goal is to have to many quality receivers for a defense to be able to cover them all , against weaker coverage defenses guys like Lazard, MVS, Brown win as often as they lose, against excellent coverage defenses they get open far less often.
what play makers do we have, we have Adams and Jones, that was about it against SF, you keep knocking Rodgers for our PO losses, and harp on those 3 for not being perfect or clutch, take either away and you got nothing, our GM &%$@ the bed by not bringing another quality receiver aboard and all you do is defend that ineptitude,.
most football people consider Adams one of the best in the league, Rodgers the same, yet you and a few others look at there short comings and over look the obvious fact that we lack a number two that would make our offense much harder to defend, you people miss the forest for the trees
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 14:46
by Pckfn23
No, we realize that a 2nd receiver with the talent of Adams or Beckham would help any offense. What we also realize is that a 2nd receiver of that quality should NOT be required for any offense to find success and the receivers we had were good enough for our offense to succeed.
In the 4th quarter the Rams went out and won the game without that 2nd quality receiving threat.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 15:03
by Yoop
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:46
No, we realize that a 2nd receiver with the talent of Adams or Beckham would help any offense. What we also realize is that a 2nd receiver of that quality should NOT be require for any offense to find success.
we don't need a Beckham, or anyone as good as him or Adams, but we do need one that gets open on schedule so the QB can develop some chemistry with and able to throw the ball where they will be as he can with Adams.
any of the Teams interested in Rodgers right now has a better WR unit then we have, and your gonna see how this plays out if he should go to one.
We didn't have to draft a guy like Jefferson a couple years back when we took Love, but we damn sure should have taken someone from that bunch in that class.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 15:08
by Acrobat
Since we're talking about #2 WR's, 2 random thoughts come to my head:
1. I think MVS's injury issues this year really held him back from what could have been a breakout season. He just never seemed right. I do wonder if he still has the potential to be a legit #2.
2. I wish we would have seen what we had in Funchess. I was a huge fan of that pick up 2 years ago and it's too bad he never played a down for us.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 15:12
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 15:03
we do need one that gets open on schedule so the QB can develop some chemistry with and able to throw the ball where they will be as he can with Adams.
We have this. Many cutups showing that we do have receivers open on schedule much of the time.
any of the Teams interested in Rodgers right now has a better WR unit then we have
Which teams are those? Denver does not. The Raiders don't.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 15:16
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:43
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 12:15
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 11:46
in our game Adams was doubled as soon as he left the los, so was Jones at times, SF decided Adams wouldn't beat them and kept him in check, the more dangerous receivers ya have the harder it is for a defense to defend, cripes any grade schooler would tell you this.
When a player is doubled, it means you likely will have someone else who can find holes in zones, a higher likelihood of a busted coverage, or have a favorable checkdown situation. And lord forbit this REALLY happens when two players are doubled (which you like to point out Jones and Adams were doubled a lot of times)
All of these events occurred in our playoff loss. It's that our QB simply didn't throw them the ball.
I don't expect perfection every play. But like the Rams, I do expect our MVP QB and the playmakers we had to be able to produce at least 20 points. And they didn't get anywhere close to that.
yes the goal is to have to many quality receivers for a defense to be able to cover them all , against weaker coverage defenses guys like Lazard, MVS, Brown win as often as they lose, against excellent coverage defenses they get open far less often.
what play makers do we have, we have Adams and Jones, that was about it against SF, you keep knocking Rodgers for our PO losses, and harp on those 3 for not being perfect or clutch, take either away and you got nothing, our GM &%$@ the bed by not bringing another quality receiver aboard and all you do is defend that ineptitude,.
most football people consider Adams one of the best in the league, Rodgers the same, yet you and a few others look at there short comings and over look the obvious fact that we lack a number two that would make our offense much harder to defend, you people miss the forest for the trees
Why do you put more pressure on the GM to perfectly predict and allocate resources amongst 70 players to make sure we have the perfect level of depth at every position but not expect the best QB in the league to find a wide open WR on the most critical play of a game?
Why is it all I heard about from 2011 - 2015 was that Rodgers got robbed by having a terrible defense even though the 2013, 2014 and 2015 PO losses saw our defense hold the opponent to under 22 or less by the end of regulation?
And now when our defense has turned the tide and once again is playing amazing it's now because of WR2, WR3, and WR4?
How about the guys we pay and the guys we have pegged as our leaders I don't know....lead?
I've seen our team with great WRs and we lose.
I've seen our team with great defenses and we lose.
I've seen our team with great running attacks and we lose.
I'm just so tired of the excuses. No team is perfect. The Rams are far from perfect. We have better RBs, secondary, Oline, QB, Edge Rushers, ILBs. The only spot they got us in is Beckham over Cobb, Robinson over Slayton and STs. And yet they found a way. When they needed 23 points with only 1 WR the last 2.5 quarters....they got the points.
This postseason, Stafford + Kupp > Rodgers + Adams.
Out of the last 11 years, the Packers have been to the playoffs 9 times. 2 of those seasons we clearly weren't a top 3 conference roster. But the other seasons we were a top 2 seed 5 times and top 3 seed 7 times. And yet the story over and over is "it was someone else's fault...how do you expect without a defense, without a STs, without a RB, without a WR". Each year has a different excuse to cover up the same thing. That narrative is just getting tired.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 16:18
by RingoCStarrQB
Acrobat wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 15:08
Since we're talking about #2 WR's, 2 random thoughts come to my head:
1. I think MVS's injury issues this year really held him back from what could have been a breakout season. He just never seemed right. I do wonder if he still has the potential to be a legit #2.
2. I wish we would have seen what we had in Funchess. I was a huge fan of that pick up 2 years ago and it's too bad he never played a down for us.
My benchmarks for #2's in big games are Andre Risen and Max McGee. And any of the WR guys on the 2010 team, injured or not (Jordy, Driver, Jones, Jennings) .......not sure which one was the #1 (I am guessing Jordy). The rest were more than adequate #2s).
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 16:23
by go pak go
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 16:18
Acrobat wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 15:08
Since we're talking about #2 WR's, 2 random thoughts come to my head:
1. I think MVS's injury issues this year really held him back from what could have been a breakout season. He just never seemed right. I do wonder if he still has the potential to be a legit #2.
2. I wish we would have seen what we had in Funchess. I was a huge fan of that pick up 2 years ago and it's too bad he never played a down for us.
My benchmarks for #2's in big games are Andre Risen and Max McGee. And any of the WR guys on the 2010 team, injured or not (Jordy, Driver, Jones, Jennings) .......not sure which one was the #1 (I am guessing Jordy). The rest were more than adequate #2s).
Jordy Nelson was our #4 that season.
MVS was our #2 in 2021 but injuries plauged him. Cobb should have been our Number 2. For some reason he didn't step up in the PO's like I expected him too. He was probably the most shocking non contributor honestly.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 17:54
by williewasgreat
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 15:16
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:43
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 12:15
When a player is doubled, it means you likely will have someone else who can find holes in zones, a higher likelihood of a busted coverage, or have a favorable checkdown situation. And lord forbit this REALLY happens when two players are doubled (which you like to point out Jones and Adams were doubled a lot of times)
All of these events occurred in our playoff loss. It's that our QB simply didn't throw them the ball.
I don't expect perfection every play. But like the Rams, I do expect our MVP QB and the playmakers we had to be able to produce at least 20 points. And they didn't get anywhere close to that.
I'm just so tired of the excuses. No team is perfect. The Rams are far from perfect. We have better RBs, secondary, Oline, QB, Edge Rushers, ILBs. The only spot they got us in is Beckham over Cobb, Robinson over Slayton and STs. And yet they found a way. When they needed 23 points with only 1 WR the last 2.5 quarters....they got the points.
This postseason, Stafford + Kupp > Rodgers + Adams.
While the Packer's might be slightly better at those positions, the difference is really not that great. Also when you compare Stafford + Kupp > Rodgers + Adams this post season, you are making a comparison that cannot be accurately made since the game conditions were not at all similar in these games. Put Stafford and Kupp into Lambeau in the weather the Packers had against the Niners and then you can make this type of comparison. There are other variables such as coaching that contribute as well.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 18:13
by texas
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 07:12
Also, I used to always think MN was the biggest fair weather city.
....I think Cincinnati might take them for their money. I know the Bengals have sucked for forever but I cannot understate how insignificant the Bengals were to the city when I first moved here in 2020. You hardly knew the Bengals had an NFL team. Their stadium never sold out and tickets could be had for under $20 easy.
And my goodness did the Bengals apparel "come out of the woodwork" this past two weeks. There was so much demand for Bengals apparel (because nobody had any) that street corner after street corner had those weird table pull-up stands of people selling Bengals shirts and they were busy.
The shirts looked lousy but nobody cared because everyone needed a shirt to wear to their SB party.
This city was always considered a Reds city. I was pretty confident the Bengals may even move after their lease ends. But now I bet this city passes a new tax levvy to remodel Paul Brown Stadium.
I just hope they remodel and don't do something they regret by building an actual new stadium.
I always liked the Bengals because nobody else did and their uniforms, colors and logo are sick. I wanted to buy some Bengals shirts before I left. But now I just feel like everyone is going to have Bengals stuff because I think they are going to be good for the foreseeable future.
Dallas. 100%. It's every sport too. And early in the year before their teams drop out of contention, it's not just that they're supporting them, it's that they're the best team in sports and it is finally their year, and the fans loudly and obnoxiously proclaim it from the rooftops. Then they lose a couple and the city goes into a panic and wants to fire everyone, especially whoever is calling the plays (sort of like this message board but x10). Then midway point in the season hits and it's complete crickets until the next season. And rinse and repeat for all major sports.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 18:20
by RingoCStarrQB
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 16:23
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 16:18
Acrobat wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 15:08
Since we're talking about #2 WR's, 2 random thoughts come to my head:
1. I think MVS's injury issues this year really held him back from what could have been a breakout season. He just never seemed right. I do wonder if he still has the potential to be a legit #2.
2. I wish we would have seen what we had in Funchess. I was a huge fan of that pick up 2 years ago and it's too bad he never played a down for us.
My benchmarks for #2's in big games are Andre Risen and Max McGee. And any of the WR guys on the 2010 team, injured or not (Jordy, Driver, Jones, Jennings) .......not sure which one was the #1 (I am guessing Jordy). The rest were more than adequate #2s).
Jordy Nelson was our #4 that season.
MVS was our #2 in 2021 but injuries plauged him. Cobb should have been our Number 2. For some reason he didn't step up in the PO's like I expected him too. He was probably the most shocking non contributor honestly.
Great for Jordy .... Jordy made the cover of Sports Illustrated as did Antonio Freeman and Max McGee.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 20:52
by Raptorman
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:03
Raptorman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 11:00
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 09:42
I don't understand why this would be a statement worth marveling at. Maybe it would be if Stafford had stayed with Detroit and won the big game. But he stepped into a new team that was loaded with talent and primed to win right away.
Wait, you mean it's not all about the QB?
I'm not following. Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" moment for you? Nobody who knows anything at all about this sport will tell you that Super Bowl wins are all about the QB. If anything, your original comment seemed to be implying that they are.
Well, maybe I should have said, "He stepped into a team loaded with talent just like Brady did in Tampa".
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 21:02
by Drj820
Raptorman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 20:52
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:03
Raptorman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 11:00
Wait, you mean it's not all about the QB?
I'm not following. Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" moment for you? Nobody who knows anything at all about this sport will tell you that Super Bowl wins are all about the QB. If anything, your original comment seemed to be implying that they are.
Well, maybe I should have said, "He stepped into a team loaded with talent just like Brady did in Tampa".
i think all of this is about suggesting that Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, AND COUSINS are all the same...just the team around them carried them to different heights.
There are many reasons this isnt true...but I will point one out now.
1) Rodgers has been on the same team his whole career. His team has been built with him in mind for over a decade. Though he only has one ring...He and his team have been contenders often and division front runners almost every year.
2) Same for Brady for many years..until he left and joined a team and elevated that team to the super bowl.
3) Stafford..after resigning with the Lions a couple of times...picks his destination and elevates that team to a super bowl.
4) Then cousins...he hand picks his destination...where he then leads his teams to 8-7-1, 10-5-1, 7-9, and 8-8. Point being...Brady and Stafford left town and elevated their teams. Cousins chose his destination and hasnt really elevated anything.
Cousins is a fine quarterback...He is no Rodgers or Brady...and now...not even a Stafford.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 21:36
by BF004
We won!!
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 21:47
by Raptorman
Drj820 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 21:02
Raptorman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 20:52
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 14:03
I'm not following. Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" moment for you? Nobody who knows anything at all about this sport will tell you that Super Bowl wins are all about the QB. If anything, your original comment seemed to be implying that they are.
Well, maybe I should have said, "He stepped into a team loaded with talent just like Brady did in Tampa".
i think all of this is about suggesting that Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, AND COUSINS are all the same...just the team around them carried them to different heights.
There are many reasons this isnt true...but I will point one out now.
1) Rodgers has been on the same team his whole career. His team has been built with him in mind for over a decade. Though he only has one ring...He and his team have been contenders often and division front runners almost every year.
2) Same for Brady for many years..until he left and joined a team and elevated that team to the super bowl.
3) Stafford..after resigning with the Lions a couple of times...picks his destination and elevates that team to a super bowl.
4) Then cousins...he hand picks his destination...where he then leads his teams to 8-7-1, 10-5-1, 7-9, and 8-8. Point being...Brady and Stafford left town and elevated their teams. Cousins chose his destination and hasnt really elevated anything.
Cousins is a fine quarterback...He is no Rodgers or Brady...and now...not even a Stafford.
You lost me when you said Brady elevated the Bucs.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 21:48
by paco
BF004 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 21:36
We won!!
The key is obvious. Sign Blount.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 21:54
by Raptorman
Stafford went to a team with the number 1 defense last year. But he elevated them. Wow.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 22:06
by Drj820
Raptorman wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 21:54
Stafford went to a team with the number 1 defense last year. But he elevated them. Wow.
Haha against the Bucs, Niners, and Bengals the Rams needed offensive production very late in the game to win the contests...do you think Goff leads them to the needed production that many times in a row? I do not.
What about Cousins? Hell no.
Rodgers? Honestly, probably not...not that many times in a row, especially after Brady had stormed back to tie the game so late.
Im ready to just give props to the INT man himself, Matthew Stafford.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 22:25
by APB
BF004 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 21:36
We won!!
Clearly it was Aaron Jones’s fault we lost in the divisional round. He’s paid way too much to be a SB winning RB.
Re: SB Thread
Posted: 14 Feb 2022 22:39
by Pckfn23
APB wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 22:25
BF004 wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022 21:36
We won!!
Clearly it was Aaron Jones’s fault we lost in the divisional round. He’s paid way too much to be a SB winning RB.
Actually he is about average compared to that list! His base salary was $1,000,000 in 2021. May I point your ire in the direction of Mark Murphy or Ted Thompson or Dom Capers or the 3 stooges or Aaron Rodgers or...
It's kind of a weirdly compiled list. It's not wrong, but a bit deceiving. It works really well until you get to Percy Harvin who's contract average in 2013 was $10,707,500. Ray Rice, $7,700,000. Ahmad Bradshaw $4,500,000.