Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

These past few years have really taught me the appreciation for the separation guys. If you're not a separation guy, you have to have Rodgers' deep deep trust (or any QB's, though Rodgers seems to emphasize this a lot) to throw it to you in tight windows and to appear at the right spot at the right time so he can leave a football there waiting for you. That's why it takes a lot longer to develop and contribute when you aren't separating on your own.

this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:13

Some inaccurate specifics were used to come to the general comparison. Thus, I don't believe they are as generally similar as you do. They wouldn't be competing for the same roster spot. If we are going to compare, I would say Lazard's game is more generally similar to Davante Adams than Devin Funchess. Funchess being something we haven't really had on this team in a while, that big body possession receiver that is just going to win contested/jump balls. MVS is your speed guy, but I am not yet convinced he is your every down #2. Cobb and Rodgers are obvious slot additions who are quick, agile, and shifty. I am separating those other receivers types, big bodied possession receivers and tacticians. So in that sense, then sure, generally, Lazard, Funchess, and Adams are similar!

Now, Funchess' uniqueness in that respect might give him a leg up, but I do not think that the staff is going to value that over everything else.

Nah, see, we're way off here.

Adams' game is his release and separation skills. That's probably 80% of what makes him special.

EXACTLY! The part missing though how/why is he getting that release and separation. It's because he is a tactician, he does the small things right. His technique is flawless. He uses everything he has and is very fundamentally sound. He is a student of the game. Take a look at the guy's measurables, he doesn't get that separation because he is just quicker/faster foot speed-wise.

We don't have anyone else on the roster whose route running, quickness, and release make them easy separators. That's why we went out and got Amari and Cobb, honestly.

I agree we needed those agile, quick twitch guys.

MVS has speed. EQ and Funchess have size and blocking. Now, you're right that Funchess has more physical play style and Lazard has a more mental grasp, but that minor nitpick between them is nothing to me.

It's only minor nitpicking because you don't agree with it, but it is valid. Lazard's type of play translates more toward what you see from Adams than what you see from Funchess.

You can't have a fulltime starting WR in the league who can't separate unless they win the contested balls and find openings against zone coverage. That's what you have to do if your release and separation struggle due to less-than-elite quickness

I agree, but you believe that elite measurable quickness is the only think that equals a solid release or separation. I do not, see Davante Adams.

We can't pick and choose which physical attribute for one player means something, but doesn't mean the same for another. Hence, why I say Davante Adams is in the tactician class of WRs. A receiver that doesn't really have a glaring weakness to his physical skill set, but isn't generally elite in any one area. Makes due with what he has using great technique to get open/gain separation. Isn't that big bodied, contested catch guy. Jerry Rice is probably the epitome of this guy.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:46

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

These past few years have really taught me the appreciation for the separation guys. If you're not a separation guy, you have to have Rodgers' deep deep trust (or any QB's, though Rodgers seems to emphasize this a lot) to throw it to you in tight windows and to appear at the right spot at the right time so he can leave a football there waiting for you. That's why it takes a lot longer to develop and contribute when you aren't separating on your own.

this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.

Remember. Randall Cobb was not resigned, and to the fans' delight, for a reason.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 14:12

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:46

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

These past few years have really taught me the appreciation for the separation guys. If you're not a separation guy, you have to have Rodgers' deep deep trust (or any QB's, though Rodgers seems to emphasize this a lot) to throw it to you in tight windows and to appear at the right spot at the right time so he can leave a football there waiting for you. That's why it takes a lot longer to develop and contribute when you aren't separating on your own.

this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.

Remember. Randall Cobb was not resigned, and to the fans' delight, for a reason.

what fans delight? yours? Cobb had trouble staying healthy, and as I remember we didn't want to extend him, yet we failed to replace him till this last draft, stayed healthy enough in Dallas to produce 850 yards.

my comment wasn't to support Cobb, it was in support of having a quick agile slot receiver versus the lanky slow and smooth guy like Lazard or Funchess.

I love Randall Cobb, but if I recall correctly, his final year or two in GB, he counted $12 M against the cap.

My sense of Cobb is that in his second contract with us, in his contract with the Cowboys (1 year, $10M), and with the Texans (3 years, $27 mil), he spent his whole career being paid about $2-3M more than his value, particularly considering his injury issues.

If his price had met the value, I'd have never let him go, haha

The other piece that was discussed, we won't know if it is correct or not, but there was definitely an obsession from Gute when he took over to go after "big receiver" targets.

I mean we move on from Nelson and Cobb and replaced them with Jimmy Graham, MVS, EQSB, Funchess, Lazard, Sternberger and Moore.

I believe Moore was the smallest addition of the Gute class.

So our sample size was certainly large enough to see that the Packers wanted big receiving targets moving forward. It was an intentional move.

After 2019, we as fans started to really notice it and wanted that stereotypical "smaller" slot guy. And it's obvious why right? We had NOTHING like that outside of Ervin who did flash some success.

Now the "why" the Packers were so intentional on going big is what I am curious about. Especially because we now have two smaller guys again. One theory I always had was durability. Smaller guys getting their work in the middle of the field means they are always hurt. And we certainly have a history of that. Cobb and Ervin are our last smaller guys and both were hurt constantly. We just couldn't rely on them at all.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 15:16

Now the "why" the Packers were so intentional on going big is what I am curious about.

MM talked about it frequently..." Big men running down the middle of the field"

Part of that was all of the rule changes that made it really hard for the DBs to molest the WR's and re-route them. Part of that was because most DBs are short and AR can take advantage of vertical separation as well as horizontal if he has taller WR's to work with. Run blocking was always important, but even more so now under MLF and the longer WR's have a leverage advantage.
Ron Wolf famously said: "You can't win with little people up here in December" and that's true for the WR's as well. So there are a variety of reasons why GB has preferred the Bigger WR's across 2 GMs and coaching staffs

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 15:16

Now the "why" the Packers were so intentional on going big is what I am curious about.

It was an approach that I supported at the time. Simple answer in my mind is that football is a sport that tends to favor big men. A few years ago the league seemed to be trending towards the "small and speedy" prototype. I'm generally a believer in going against the grain. Now was it a good idea to go "all in" and carry a roster void of nimble, quick, small guys? I don't know. But for the better part of AR's career I yearned for the big bodied, Plaxico Burress-type boundary receiver to complement Jordy.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 15:16

The other piece that was discussed, we won't know if it is correct or not, but there was definitely an obsession from Gute when he took over to go after "big receiver" targets.

I mean we move on from Nelson and Cobb and replaced them with Jimmy Graham, MVS, EQSB, Funchess, Lazard, Sternberger and Moore.

I believe Moore was the smallest addition of the Gute class.

So our sample size was certainly large enough to see that the Packers wanted big receiving targets moving forward. It was an intentional move.

After 2019, we as fans started to really notice it and wanted that stereotypical "smaller" slot guy. And it's obvious why right? We had NOTHING like that outside of Ervin who did flash some success.

Now the "why" the Packers were so intentional on going big is what I am curious about. Especially because we now have two smaller guys again. One theory I always had was durability. Smaller guys getting their work in the middle of the field means they are always hurt. And we certainly have a history of that. Cobb and Ervin are our last smaller guys and both were hurt constantly. We just couldn't rely on them at all.

we where still a spread vertical scheme when we intentionally added the tall lanky guys, a year later the offense changed, now we run more inside routes, shorter stuff, up tempo to get the ball out of Rodgers hand faster, so the smooth, but not fast power forward type like Lazard, Funches, EQB, Moore don't fit as well.

Cobb stayed healthy a long time from the slot and even the backfield, Ervin was hurt quick, Cobb seemed more stocky then Ervin, maybe it just seemed that way, thing is both produced well when healthy, Amari looks a little wider then both.

I've always liked having a dedicated slot receiver, a gadget type for RO, motion freezes lbers, so if you have a dangerous slot guy they have to honor his movement, or he will gut you for extra yardage every time.

I was as surprised as anyone here when Guty caved and we brought Cobb back, however if Cobb stays healthy I also wouldn't be surprised for him to earn his contract, and obviously help getting Amari ready to take over.

Lafluers schemes are more about moving the chains and less so with time consuming big chunk plays, so for that, quick and agile wins out

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 15:16

Now the "why" the Packers were so intentional on going big is what I am curious about. Especially because we now have two smaller guys again. One theory I always had was durability. Smaller guys getting their work in the middle of the field means they are always hurt. And we certainly have a history of that. Cobb and Ervin are our last smaller guys and both were hurt constantly. We just couldn't rely on them at all.

Gutey has actually talked about this, so it's not just guesswork. Durability, being a cold weather team, wanting a kore physical style to thrive in the North. You're spot on. But you either have to find a rare guy with that sort of size who also possesses quickness, likely high picks, or you sacrifice the quickness.

That's why I want Trey Burks in the draft next year. 6'3", over 230, enough speed and agility to start, and YAC machine. He's a bigger AJ Brown and AJ Brown is already big. I'm planting my flag on this guy before ever giving him the amount of tape study we'll all discuss next February and see if my mind changes then.

Packers just claimed OLB cut from Ravens...he sounds like a roster lock already

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/0 ... -ravens/?

"He posted a very poor #RAS with poor size, very poor speed, poor explosiveness, poor agility at the DE position.
https://t.co/PIe0RRY7D2 pic.twitter.com/mhilBUbiHH"

Sounds like they've been running a lot more of 2-4. Might see a lot more lbs this year.

Sounds like we are under the cap by about 12m now, I wouldn’t mind adding KJ Wright

BSA wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 17:58

Packers just claimed OLB cut from Ravens...he sounds like a roster lock already

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/0 ... -ravens/?

"He posted a very poor #RAS with poor size, very poor speed, poor explosiveness, poor agility at the DE position.
https://t.co/PIe0RRY7D2 pic.twitter.com/mhilBUbiHH"

Any way to watch family night from out-of-state?

Labrev wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2021 15:02

Any way to watch family night from out-of-state?

There’s always someone who live streams it you just have to do a lot of digging. I’ll be looking tomorrow and if I find something I’ll post it.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:46

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

These past few years have really taught me the appreciation for the separation guys. If you're not a separation guy, you have to have Rodgers' deep deep trust (or any QB's, though Rodgers seems to emphasize this a lot) to throw it to you in tight windows and to appear at the right spot at the right time so he can leave a football there waiting for you. That's why it takes a lot longer to develop and contribute when you aren't separating on your own.

this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.

What? That's not Cobb's game at all. It briefly was early in his career, but his strength later on was being in the right place when the play breaks down. And always he was great with the ball in his hands. But getting it to that point was not his strength. Most fans were not sad to see Cobb walk because the guy just couldn't get open early in a play; every play turned into run around background ball.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2021 19:08

Labrev wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2021 15:02

Any way to watch family night from out-of-state?

There’s always someone who live streams it you just have to do a lot of digging. I’ll be looking tomorrow and if I find something I’ll post it.

Search Reddit.

Waldo wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2021 19:44

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:46

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2021 13:26

These past few years have really taught me the appreciation for the separation guys. If you're not a separation guy, you have to have Rodgers' deep deep trust (or any QB's, though Rodgers seems to emphasize this a lot) to throw it to you in tight windows and to appear at the right spot at the right time so he can leave a football there waiting for you. That's why it takes a lot longer to develop and contribute when you aren't separating on your own.

this is so spot on, when your dealing with a defense that can get pressure in a 2 count, who ya gonna depend on to be open? smooth long striding Lazard, or Randall Cobb who's known to separate in a phone booth? easy answer.

What? That's not Cobb's game at all. It briefly was early in his career, but his strength later on was being in the right place when the play breaks down. And always he was great with the ball in his hands. But getting it to that point was not his strength. Most fans were not sad to see Cobb walk because the guy just couldn't get open early in a play; every play turned into run around background ball.

I think a lot of that had to do with MMs offense. Lafleur will scheme Cobb open and get him looks. I was happy to see Cobb leave because he couldnt stay on the field.