Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 09:00
That's the answer when he is healthy!
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General Packer News 2021
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Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 09:14
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 09:24
I very much agree with this.APB wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 06:50Good point.
However, for this coming season, where do you see his production headed? Ascending or descending?
Don't get me wrong, I like Lazard and I think/hope he makes the roster. I also think it's very possible we've seen his best year from a production standpoint. With the additions to the WR/RB rooms and the focus seemingly headed toward more of a quick-hitter type passing game married to a strong running game, I doubt we see Lazard in anything more than a complimentary role going forward.
Adams, MVS and Cobb are my projected top three WR producers.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 09:38
Lazard is great trade bait, he's not as good as Funchess and imo it's telling when your #1 catches more then twice as many passes as your number 2, and almost 2/3's more targeted throws going his way.
doesn't matter if we like a player, hell we only know these players from what they do on the field, Skeptic was spot on, he's basically a decoy player who excels as a down field blocker and a safety valve for Rodgers, I want my #2 to actually be a threat, I want my #2 to have 60 receptions, hell Tonyan was our #2 last year, both Cobb and Amari would see more targets then Lazard, keep funchess and trade Lazard for a future pick.
where gonna need as many picks as we can get next couple years.
doesn't matter if we like a player, hell we only know these players from what they do on the field, Skeptic was spot on, he's basically a decoy player who excels as a down field blocker and a safety valve for Rodgers, I want my #2 to actually be a threat, I want my #2 to have 60 receptions, hell Tonyan was our #2 last year, both Cobb and Amari would see more targets then Lazard, keep funchess and trade Lazard for a future pick.
where gonna need as many picks as we can get next couple years.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 09:50
I don't understand the reasoning for trading Lazard. You are gonna just get a 6th rounder or so for Lazard and you would use that pick to try and hopefully select another Lazard.Yoop wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 09:38Lazard is great trade bait, he's not as good as Funchess and imo it's telling when your #1 catches more then twice as many passes as your number 2, and almost 2/3's more targeted throws going his way.
doesn't matter if we like a player, hell we only know these players from what they do on the field, Skeptic was spot on, he's basically a decoy player who excels as a down field blocker and a safety valve for Rodgers, I want my #2 to actually be a threat, I want my #2 to have 60 receptions, hell Tonyan was our #2 last year, both Cobb and Amari would see more targets then Lazard, keep funchess and trade Lazard for a future pick.
where gonna need as many picks as we can get next couple years.
Also something to bear in mind. Funchess, EQSB and Winfree are all injured right now. Injuries may decide the WR battle for us.
We know there will be a void in WRs on next year's roster. It's better to have as many potential vets returning on the 2022 roster compared to a 6th round rookie. Especially when we will have a 1st year starting QB.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 10:51
some fans don't value Lazard as much as the HC and QB do.
But if you have to pick a side, its pretty easy to see who's on the wrong side of this discussion.
Nobody doubts the value of a more dynamic WR, its just a matter of limited resources and how do you allocate them ? How much does it cost to upgrade at WR ? How long will it take that WR to surpass Lazard on the depth chart ? Lazard's value per OTC was north of $3M, while the Packers are only paying him $850k. That's a great value and for a cap- constrained team...he's worth way more than you'd get in trade compensation as noted above.
https://overthecap.com/player/allen-lazard/7167/
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 11:16
Lazard blocks better than most inline TEs.
All those quick passes and pass screens only work if WRs can block.
This doesn't shown up in the stats but is crucial to the success of this offense.
All those quick passes and pass screens only work if WRs can block.
This doesn't shown up in the stats but is crucial to the success of this offense.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 11:29
I think Lazard is more valuable to the Packers (scheme familiarity, Rodgers likes him, blocking, cheap contract)) than he is to most other teams, so he makes for a terrible trade candidate. You want a guy who could be worth more elsewhere than here.
A team I'm keeping an eye on is the Jets. Mims has been struggling (blaming food poisoning from multiple months ago) and is 3rd string. Hot shot rookie Elijah Moore is missing time with a soft tissue injury. Moore, Crowder, and Cole are all ideally slot guys. MLF's brother is the OC and best friend is the HC. I could see them needing a bigger body to add to their mix who has some experience and knows the scheme, so Funchess or even EQ could be shipped for a late/conditional pick, but not much more, if that makes sense for us.
A team I'm keeping an eye on is the Jets. Mims has been struggling (blaming food poisoning from multiple months ago) and is 3rd string. Hot shot rookie Elijah Moore is missing time with a soft tissue injury. Moore, Crowder, and Cole are all ideally slot guys. MLF's brother is the OC and best friend is the HC. I could see them needing a bigger body to add to their mix who has some experience and knows the scheme, so Funchess or even EQ could be shipped for a late/conditional pick, but not much more, if that makes sense for us.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 11:36
LaFleur said flat-out that there are whole plays in his playbook that he only runs if Lazard suits up, and that does not sound like mere coach-speak it is pretty noticeable how much more effective certain running plays work when he's out there.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 11:51
from just the little I've seen, Funchess already looks better then anything I've seen from Lazard the last 3 years, Lazard is at his ceiling, once Rodgers works with Funchess more he'll be even better, yes Lazard is a good down field blocker, but it's not as though thats some thing your born with, others can do well to, people act as though that is going to keep him around. MVS has ability to improve on his target to catch rate, Lazard, and this is a stickler for me, is almost as good as Adams, he simply is not targeted more because he doesn't separate.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 11:29I think Lazard is more valuable to the Packers (scheme familiarity, Rodgers likes him, blocking, cheap contract)) than he is to most other teams, so he makes for a terrible trade candidate. You want a guy who could be worth more elsewhere than here.
A team I'm keeping an eye on is the Jets. Mims has been struggling (blaming food poisoning from multiple months ago) and is 3rd string. Hot shot rookie Elijah Moore is missing time with a soft tissue injury. Moore, Crowder, and Cole are all ideally slot guys. MLF's brother is the OC and best friend is the HC. I could see them needing a bigger body to add to their mix who has some experience and knows the scheme, so Funchess or even EQ could be shipped for a late/conditional pick, but not much more, if that makes sense for us.
your right because of all this Lazard probably isn't a attractive trade player, but I'd rather give his snaps to Cobb or Amari, and certainly Funchess, Add Adams and MVS, thats 5, pluss we have a couple interesting newbies, plus Brown, Taylor, our #6 receiver should be someone with a unknown ceiling, but who looks to have a higher one.
maybe I'am wrong, but to me Lazard is already at his, and I don't see keeping him because he can block.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 12:21
Why not just have our #6 be someone who we know is really good? Lazard has shown he can be an effective #3/#4 option.Yoop wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 11:51
your right because of all this Lazard probably isn't a attractive trade player, but I'd rather give his snaps to Cobb or Amari, and certainly Funchess, Add Adams and MVS, thats 5, pluss we have a couple interesting newbies, plus Brown, Taylor, our #6 receiver should be someone with a unknown ceiling, but who looks to have a higher one.
maybe I'am wrong, but to me Lazard is already at his, and I don't see keeping him because he can block.
Why not have that instead of a garbage Malik Taylor because we don't know what he has? Look at the difference between this year and last year as our Number 6. Would you rather have Lazard as the #6 option? Or would you rather have Taylor/Shepherd? Like we are in a GREAT spot. Let's finally take advantage of that!
Players get injured. It's nice to have an actual backup on the roster who can produce when said players get injured. Right now the Packers have 3 injured WRs.
I just don't understand the logic of Packers fans complaining we have no depth and the GM didn't Plan for X and then when we have plenty of depth at a position, the first thing people want to do is trade away a player.
A 6th/7th round pick is almost worthless. Lazard is cheap financially this year and even next year. I see absolutely no reason to ship away a good player who is cheaper than a 4th round pick. Especially when we get to retain his rights again next year.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 13:46
I don’t think Rodgers values Lazard at all. He has made constant remarks about upgrading the WR position from draft day saying he thought they were trading up for a receiver to demanding a trade for Cobb. He might like him as a team mate or something but I doubt Rodgers would be upset if Lazard is lost.BSA wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 10:51some fans don't value Lazard as much as the HC and QB do.
But if you have to pick a side, its pretty easy to see who's on the wrong side of this discussion.
Nobody doubts the value of a more dynamic WR, its just a matter of limited resources and how do you allocate them ? How much does it cost to upgrade at WR ? How long will it take that WR to surpass Lazard on the depth chart ? Lazard's value per OTC was north of $3M, while the Packers are only paying him $850k. That's a great value and for a cap- constrained team...he's worth way more than you'd get in trade compensation as noted above.
https://overthecap.com/player/allen-lazard/7167/
I do believe LaFleur loves Lazard for his blocking. That being said a receivers primary job is to be able to receive passes.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 13:49
It’s all about STs. You don’t really expect your #5 or #6 WR to make plays on offense. Especially in a really balanced offense. You expect those guys to be significant STs players. Malik Taylor was apparently one of the teams better STs players last season.go pak go wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 12:21Why not just have our #6 be someone who we know is really good? Lazard has shown he can be an effective #3/#4 option.Yoop wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 11:51
your right because of all this Lazard probably isn't a attractive trade player, but I'd rather give his snaps to Cobb or Amari, and certainly Funchess, Add Adams and MVS, thats 5, pluss we have a couple interesting newbies, plus Brown, Taylor, our #6 receiver should be someone with a unknown ceiling, but who looks to have a higher one.
maybe I'am wrong, but to me Lazard is already at his, and I don't see keeping him because he can block.
Why not have that instead of a garbage Malik Taylor because we don't know what he has? Look at the difference between this year and last year as our Number 6. Would you rather have Lazard as the #6 option? Or would you rather have Taylor/Shepherd? Like we are in a GREAT spot. Let's finally take advantage of that!
Players get injured. It's nice to have an actual backup on the roster who can produce when said players get injured. Right now the Packers have 3 injured WRs.
I just don't understand the logic of Packers fans complaining we have no depth and the GM didn't Plan for X and then when we have plenty of depth at a position, the first thing people want to do is trade away a player.
A 6th/7th round pick is almost worthless. Lazard is cheap financially this year and even next year. I see absolutely no reason to ship away a good player who is cheaper than a 4th round pick. Especially when we get to retain his rights again next year.
I’ve said in a separate post Lazard has some history on teams and Funchess said he’s open to playing it but neither one has the skill set to really be a plus STs player.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 14:00
Very much agree. Can they do it? Sure. Do you want them out there? Probably not.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 13:49I’ve said in a separate post Lazard has some history on teams and Funchess said he’s open to playing it but neither one has the skill set to really be a plus STs player.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 14:57
The only thing I really remember Taylor doing on Teams last year was being a kick returner. And a crappy one at that. We need gunners.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 13:49It’s all about STs. You don’t really expect your #5 or #6 WR to make plays on offense. Especially in a really balanced offense. You expect those guys to be significant STs players. Malik Taylor was apparently one of the teams better STs players last season.go pak go wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 12:21Why not just have our #6 be someone who we know is really good? Lazard has shown he can be an effective #3/#4 option.Yoop wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 11:51
your right because of all this Lazard probably isn't a attractive trade player, but I'd rather give his snaps to Cobb or Amari, and certainly Funchess, Add Adams and MVS, thats 5, pluss we have a couple interesting newbies, plus Brown, Taylor, our #6 receiver should be someone with a unknown ceiling, but who looks to have a higher one.
maybe I'am wrong, but to me Lazard is already at his, and I don't see keeping him because he can block.
Why not have that instead of a garbage Malik Taylor because we don't know what he has? Look at the difference between this year and last year as our Number 6. Would you rather have Lazard as the #6 option? Or would you rather have Taylor/Shepherd? Like we are in a GREAT spot. Let's finally take advantage of that!
Players get injured. It's nice to have an actual backup on the roster who can produce when said players get injured. Right now the Packers have 3 injured WRs.
I just don't understand the logic of Packers fans complaining we have no depth and the GM didn't Plan for X and then when we have plenty of depth at a position, the first thing people want to do is trade away a player.
A 6th/7th round pick is almost worthless. Lazard is cheap financially this year and even next year. I see absolutely no reason to ship away a good player who is cheaper than a 4th round pick. Especially when we get to retain his rights again next year.
I’ve said in a separate post Lazard has some history on teams and Funchess said he’s open to playing it but neither one has the skill set to really be a plus STs player.
And honestly I don't see any gunners that are at the WR position for us (maybe Winfree?)
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 15:24
and he has a unknown ceiling, but has flashed in TC, you should always be trying to up grade the bottom of the depth chart at every position, and Lazard seems to be that player right now for us at WR, Funchess has looked good all of TC, so theres that unknown factor again, of a player that we don't know just how good he can be.
this will all hash itself out I expect with PS games, makes for something to keep a eye on Sat. nite though.
we'll see who Love likes to throw to.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 16:54
100% agree. The new talent in the skill positions will eat at his production as he isn’t electric and there is no advantage in forcing him the ball.APB wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 06:50Good point.
However, for this coming season, where do you see his production headed? Ascending or descending?
Don't get me wrong, I like Lazard and I think/hope he makes the roster. I also think it's very possible we've seen his best year from a production standpoint. With the additions to the WR/RB rooms and the focus seemingly headed toward more of a quick-hitter type passing game married to a strong running game, I doubt we see Lazard in anything more than a complimentary role going forward.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 16:56
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 13 Aug 2021 20:14
Again. I don't know how many times I need to say this.
Funchess
Winfree
EQSB
They are all hurt right now. I very much doubt they play tomorrow considering they didn't practice yesterday.
But I will agree that Winfree is the beautiful wildcard in all of this. I hope he gets suited up soon.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 14 Aug 2021 03:41
Winfree will almost certainly make it to the PS unless he makes several flash plays in the pre-season. If there are injuries or if he continues to improve he can be elevated later in the season.go pak go wrote: ↑13 Aug 2021 20:14Again. I don't know how many times I need to say this.
Funchess
Winfree
EQSB
They are all hurt right now. I very much doubt they play tomorrow considering they didn't practice yesterday.
But I will agree that Winfree is the beautiful wildcard in all of this. I hope he gets suited up soon.
Regarding Funchess as a ST player. He ran a 4.70 40 at the combine. That is slower than most TE's. He is probably not a tough guy or he would have converted to TE as Tonyan did. He probably does not know how to block. So what can he do? He does not have the speed to be on the kickoff team or the field goal defense team, he probably can't open-field block on the kick return team and is not heavy enough to block on the field goal team.
There is a world of difference between Lazard's 4.55 and Funchess's 4.70 with regard to ST's. We know Lazard can open-field block. We know that he has enough straight line speed to be on the kickoff team. His length combined with reasonable speed might make a blocked field goal possible. Lazard is useful on ST's; Funchess is not even if he is willing.