Packers Huddle

Wrong thread

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:17

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/249 ... ep-passers

Even Aaron Rodgers in 2013 & 2014 had a 15 percentage point drop in completion percentage on deep passes. He was historically great, but even that greatness on deep passes does not equal the completion percentage of shorter passes.

His 2020 completion percentage on deep passes was really good too: https://www.nfl.com/_amp/next-gen-stats ... ds-at-no-4

This is the result when your QB is just as effective completion % wise on deep passes compared to short passes. That stretch in 2014 he had was absolutely insane.

I can't prove it but my memory says that a significant number of long passes to Cobb, Nelson, etc. were not the called plays. They were because a defender fell down or let them go expecting deep help that never arrived. So Rodgers glances deep and sees Cobb or Nelson with no one within 10 yards and waving his arms. Rodgers has an easy completion, even an underthrow is still on the game highlights.

Whereas deep MVS plays were called plays and he was seldom wide open. So his deep catch percentage was lower than a more versatile receiver.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 10:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 10:04

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 09:52

Should have banned myself 2 days ago and I wouldn't have been led down the rabbit hole.

just stop your nonsense, you led yourself exactly where you wanted to go, and blame others for going there, your wagging the tail and you know it.

You're right, I did. I shouldn't have. You are wrong so often and fabricate things so often, I should just let it go. Its tough for me not to put those in their place that are so confidently wrong.

I sure as &%$@ aint wrong about why Scantling didn't catch more passes, and you make a fool of yourself defending his route running ability, as to the rest of your blow heart response, well it's expected.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022 15:46

I defend Rodgers because others don't, he gets the lions share of the blame for every loss

Maybe that's because the starting QB has outsized importance over the outcome of a game.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:25

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:17

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/249 ... ep-passers

Even Aaron Rodgers in 2013 & 2014 had a 15 percentage point drop in completion percentage on deep passes. He was historically great, but even that greatness on deep passes does not equal the completion percentage of shorter passes.

His 2020 completion percentage on deep passes was really good too: https://www.nfl.com/_amp/next-gen-stats ... ds-at-no-4

This is the result when your QB is just as effective completion % wise on deep passes compared to short passes. That stretch in 2014 he had was absolutely insane.

I went off memory of those years when he had quality receivers, he was dropping bombs right into the hands of those guys, that % is bound to decline as the quality of receivers does, when a guy like scantling can't even get a hand on the ball 50% of the time it reflects this, yet I'am a fool. for bringing this up

Labrev wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:45

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022 15:46

I defend Rodgers because others don't, he gets the lions share of the blame for every loss

Maybe that's because the starting QB has outsized importance over the outcome of a game.

Blaming Rodgers is good, correct, wholesome, lawful, intelligent, charismatic, rational, civilized, and beautiful.

APB wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 11:51

I stand corrected...

That's twice now in these past few pages you've typed those words and each time they were regarding the major points you were basing your entire argument off of.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be gleaned from this conversation...?

wtf, you new what I was getting at with the catches per targeted throw, instead of engaging in a civil conversation you chose to center on a simple terminology error, basically about the same thing with deep throws versus shallow, Rodgers has been good enough deep over the years that his average didn't drop by much, you r whole goal here was to make me look foolish, well done

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:39

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 10:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 10:04

just stop your nonsense, you led yourself exactly where you wanted to go, and blame others for going there, your wagging the tail and you know it.

You're right, I did. I shouldn't have. You are wrong so often and fabricate things so often, I should just let it go. Its tough for me not to put those in their place that are so confidently wrong.

I sure as &%$@ aint wrong about why Scantling didn't catch more passes, and you make a fool of yourself defending his route running ability, as to the rest of your blow heart response, well it's expected.

In reality, you were proven wrong twice. I didn't defend MVS's route running ability... I didn't defend or criticize any player, actually. You are once again arguing against a ghost.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:46

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:25

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:17

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/249 ... ep-passers

Even Aaron Rodgers in 2013 & 2014 had a 15 percentage point drop in completion percentage on deep passes. He was historically great, but even that greatness on deep passes does not equal the completion percentage of shorter passes.

His 2020 completion percentage on deep passes was really good too: https://www.nfl.com/_amp/next-gen-stats ... ds-at-no-4

This is the result when your QB is just as effective completion % wise on deep passes compared to short passes. That stretch in 2014 he had was absolutely insane.

I went off memory of those years when he had quality receivers, he was dropping bombs right into the hands of those guys, that % is bound to decline as the quality of receivers does, when a guy like scantling can't even get a hand on the ball 50% of the time it reflects this, yet I'am a fool. for bringing this up

I would argue further that the % is bound to decline period because that 8 game stretch in 2014 was absolutely, unequovically, historically insane. And you have to expect regression to the mean.

That being said, Rodgers was insanely good at the deep throw in 2020 as well. Like back at his best of career good. And he had your "sh*tty receiver group that year.

Labrev wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:53

Labrev wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:45

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022 15:46

I defend Rodgers because others don't, he gets the lions share of the blame for every loss

Maybe that's because the starting QB has outsized importance over the outcome of a game.

Blaming Rodgers is good, correct, wholesome, lawful, intelligent, charismatic, rational, civilized, and beautiful.

don't do drugs, unless you have enough to share

Rodgers gets over the top blame, he can't be expected to win games with the pass rush in his face and receivers that can't separate, or see everything that happens in the blink of the eye, we see open receivers that likely weren't open during his route reads, this whole back and forth with Scantling demonstrates the hard headedness some have with simple common sense explanations, if a receiver can't get his hands on the ball, he obviously wont be catching it, catching it is the most important thing, yet these people for some reason will defend this BS and blame Rodgers, I can't wrap my head around that.

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 14:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:46

go pak go wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:25

This is the result when your QB is just as effective completion % wise on deep passes compared to short passes. That stretch in 2014 he had was absolutely insane.

I went off memory of those years when he had quality receivers, he was dropping bombs right into the hands of those guys, that % is bound to decline as the quality of receivers does, when a guy like scantling can't even get a hand on the ball 50% of the time it reflects this, yet I'am a fool. for bringing this up

I would argue further that the % is bound to decline period because that 8 game stretch in 2014 was absolutely, unequovically, historically insane. And you have to expect regression to the mean.

That being said, Rodgers was insanely good at the deep throw in 2020 as well. Like back at his best of career good. And he had your "sh*tty receiver group that year.

teams developed spread verticals as MCCarthy did in order to strike quick, that stuff wouldn't have worked if deep passing was as inaccurate as that table showed, it looks worse I think because every team has guys like Scantling that simply can't get there hands on the ball,

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:57

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:39

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 10:31

You're right, I did. I shouldn't have. You are wrong so often and fabricate things so often, I should just let it go. Its tough for me not to put those in their place that are so confidently wrong.

I sure as &%$@ aint wrong about why Scantling didn't catch more passes, and you make a fool of yourself defending his route running ability, as to the rest of your blow heart response, well it's expected.

In reality, you were proven wrong twice. I didn't defend MVS's route running ability... I didn't defend or criticize any player, actually. You are once again arguing against a ghost.

you started the argument, new what I was getting at when I brought up catches to targeted throws, when I used the word drops, which was the only thing I said wrong and corrolate to the samr thing your whole goal was in some way to defend Scantling and prove me wrong , are you seriously going to deny that, if so why bring it up in the first place, then you go and find some stats that showed Scantling caught over 50%, which you didn't supply proof of because it's false, your the AH here.

and I don't purposely lie, fabricate, or invent anything and I resent the implication.

In 2021, Davante Adams was 19 of 38 in deep targets. 113 of 142 in intermediate to short passing. That is 50% compared to 80%.
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/n ... =1,2,3,4,5

Adams was 14 of 29 in 2020.

Deep passing is not as accurate as short/intermediate passing regardless of the passer or receiver.

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 14:31

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:57

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:39

I sure as &%$@ aint wrong about why Scantling didn't catch more passes, and you make a fool of yourself defending his route running ability, as to the rest of your blow heart response, well it's expected.

In reality, you were proven wrong twice. I didn't defend MVS's route running ability... I didn't defend or criticize any player, actually. You are once again arguing against a ghost.

you started the argument, new what I was getting at when I brought up catches to targeted throws, when I used the word drops, which was the only thing I said wrong and corrolate to the samr thing your whole goal was in some way to defend Scantling and prove me wrong , are you seriously going to deny that, if so why bring it up in the first place, then you go and find some stats that showed Scantling caught over 50%, which you didn't supply proof of because it's false, your the AH here.

and I don't purposely lie, fabricate, or invent anything and I resent the implication, and expect some moderation concerning it.

You preceded to defend your use of drops for 5 more posts before realizing you were wrong. You didn't even know what you meant, so how are we to know?

I never defended Scantling, not once. Please show me where I defended him? I didn't bring it up, I was simply providing some facts to dispute your incorrect claims after APB pointed them out and you tried to defend your incorrect claim.

FYI, I provided my proof about +50% catch rate in 2 of 4 years, but here it is yet again: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ldMa00.htm
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_ ... -scantling

How many times can you be blatantly wrong about in 1 discussion!!??

You absolutely fabricate things to try and prove your points. You have been caught in it countless times. Then when caught you try and worm your way out of it by claiming you meant something else or that others are twisting your words even though you are shown your exact quote. It happens CONSTANTLY.

I hope we can move on now. Family night in 4 hours!

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 13:54

you r whole goal here was to make me look foolish, well done

This seems appropriate...

yoop wrote:you led yourself exactly where you wanted to go, and blame others for going there

Yoops delivery may be imperfect, but his point is fair...much more likely MVS would screw up than Rodgers, and you don’t need a playbook to tell if a receiver ran a bad route. Obviously.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 15:54

Yoops delivery may be imperfect, but his point is fair...much more likely MVS would screw up than Rodgers, and you don’t need a playbook to tell if a receiver ran a bad route. Obviously.

Bad or good route was never the claim, why do you continue to push this inaccurate description of the argument. The OP was about catch point. To know that, you would need the playbook.

MVS himself was also never the argument, the assertions used to try and make the points was.

APB wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 11:51

I stand corrected...

That's twice now in these past few pages you've typed those words and each time they were regarding the major points you were basing your entire argument off of.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be gleaned from this conversation...?

Having yooper learn 2 things in a single thread must be a world record.

My summary:

- MVS wasn't a good WR. No one thinks he was. He screwed up a lot of plays. He was held accountable by not extending him.
- AR is great. On a failed play, it's likely someone else screwed up. Sometimes rarely AR screws up all by himself, and pointing that out is not blaming AR for everything. He has been held accountable by giving him record extensions.
- Deep passes are harder to complete than short ones, even if it's AR throwing and regardless of who is catching.
- AR and great WR can complete a higher % of deep passes than AR and a sucky WR.
- You don't need the playbook to see if a receiver runs a bad route (you can see things like late release, getting stuck in press, getting re-routed, rounded routes, etc.)
- However, you would need the playbook to know exact planned catch points on a given play, because, well, they are planned and secret. Catch points depend on advanced things like planned QB progression and time it takes to go from from read to read, depth of QB drop, protection, audibles and route adjustments, decoy routes, picks etc.
- Not all that much in Amari Rodgers news.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 16:35

APB wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 12:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022 11:51

I stand corrected...

That's twice now in these past few pages you've typed those words and each time they were regarding the major points you were basing your entire argument off of.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be gleaned from this conversation...?

Having yooper learn 2 things in a single thread must be a world record.

My summary:

- MVS wasn't a good WR. No one thinks he was. He screwed up a lot of plays. He was held accountable by not extending him.
- AR is great. On a failed play, it's likely someone else screwed up. Sometimes rarely AR screws up all by himself, and pointing that out is not blaming AR for everything. He has been held accountable by giving him record extensions.
- Deep passes are harder to complete than short ones, even if it's AR throwing and regardless of who is catching.
- AR and great WR can complete a higher % of deep passes than AR and a sucky WR.
- You don't need the playbook to see if a receiver runs a bad route (you can see things like late release, getting stuck in press, getting re-routed, rounded routes, etc.)
- However, you would need the playbook to know exact planned catch points on a given play, because, well, they are planned. Catch points depend on advanced things like planned QB progression and time it takes to go from from read to read, depth of QB drop, protection, audibles and route adjustments, decoy routes, picks etc.
- Not all that much in Amari Rodgers news.

100% across the board. Wonderful summary!