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Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 12:52
by YoHoChecko
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 12:44
You gotta catch the balls that are catchable if you're a pro receiver. No excuses for that.
That said, I do feel like Rodgers gets a bit carried away with this. Like yeah, it makes total sense that they should not get as many snaps as the guy who prove themselves to be reliable, but "just won't be out there" is patently ridiculous.
Like, Christian Watson had *a lot* of drops as a college receiver. He's got to work on that, for sure. Yet he also had nearly 20 yards per catch. With guys like him who have the ability to hit home runs, you need to give them the opportunity to make those plays. You can only do that by throwing to them. The more passes they get, the more likely they are to reward it with those big plays, which (in my mind) more than make up for those drops.
I was listening to a podcast or maybe reading a tweet back during the draft process. I think it was Ben Fennell, but I can't remember for sure, who said something interesting about drops: Basically that a player with really good hands drops 1 or 2 passes a year. A player with really marginal hands drops 8 or 9 passes a year. In (I think it was) Ben Fennell's mind, the 6 or 7 negative plays between them has a negligible impact on their overall production and consistency and contribution over the course of the season.
I think it's much more important to be able to show the want-to and ability in contested situations than to have a handful of concentration drops. Doubs, Winfree, and Lazard have (in my view) made enough reported contested plays and catches to make occasional drops less of an issue. (Watson hasn't played much, so his omission is lack of evidence, not evidence to the contrary)
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 12:55
by Acrobat
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 12:52
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 12:44
You gotta catch the balls that are catchable if you're a pro receiver. No excuses for that.
That said, I do feel like Rodgers gets a bit carried away with this. Like yeah, it makes total sense that they should not get as many snaps as the guy who prove themselves to be reliable, but "just won't be out there" is patently ridiculous.
Like, Christian Watson had *a lot* of drops as a college receiver. He's got to work on that, for sure. Yet he also had nearly 20 yards per catch. With guys like him who have the ability to hit home runs, you need to give them the opportunity to make those plays. You can only do that by throwing to them. The more passes they get, the more likely they are to reward it with those big plays, which (in my mind) more than make up for those drops.
I was listening to a podcast or maybe reading a tweet back during the draft process. I think it was Ben Fennell, but I can't remember for sure, who said something interesting about drops: Basically that a player with really good hands drops 1 or 2 passes a year. A player with really marginal hands drops 8 or 9 passes a year. In (I think it was) Ben Fennell's mind, the 6 or 7 negative plays between them has a negligible impact on their overall production and consistency and contribution over the course of the season.
I think it's much more important to be able to show the want-to and ability in contested situations than to have a handful of concentration drops. Doubs, Winfree, and Lazard have (in my view) made enough reported contested plays and catches to make occasional drops less of an issue. (Watson hasn't played much, so his omission is lack of evidence, not evidence to the contrary)
And sometimes there's those weird anomalies where someone like James Jones, a fantastic pass catcher, can't catch a thing in the 2010 playoffs.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 13:09
by Labrev
Yeah, and as another example, Deebo Samuel isn't very sure-handed. He had 8 drops last year.
Yet when people think about Deebo Samuel, they don't think of the drops; they think of him as the playmaker he is when he hangs on. In the big scheme of things, those drops are a pretty small price to pay given the plays he *does* make (and he was just richly rewarded with a new contract from the 9ers).
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 18:14
by PackerNation
Aaron threw a real bad pick today and another sure pick was dropped by the Saints. Someone needs to tell Aaron: "You keep throwing picks and you aren't going to be out there."
You know one of the young WRs had that somewhere in their mind today
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 18:29
by bud fox
PackerNation wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:14
Aaron threw a real bad pick today and another sure pick was dropped by the Saints. Someone needs to tell Aaron: "You keep throwing picks and you aren't going to be out there."
You know one of the young WRs had that somewhere in their mind today
Slight difference when it is a 50m a year back to back mvp compared to 4th and 7th round rookies.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 18:33
by bud fox
Why are people trying to defend these rookies - part of being a wr is catching the ball. They need to catch the ball and if they can't they shouldn't be playing.
Being a wr in gb is not difficult. You don't need separation - just run the route and catch the ball because it will be there.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 18:43
by BF004
PackerNation wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:14
Aaron threw a real bad pick today and another sure pick was dropped by the Saints. Someone needs to tell Aaron: "You keep throwing picks and you aren't going to be out there."
You know one of the young WRs had that somewhere in their mind today
I believe it.
Although Aaron has a history of being a lot more liberal with his throwing in practice, just to test what he can get away with.
He throws quite a few ints every tc.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 18:46
by PackerNation
bud fox wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:33
Why are people trying to defend these rookies - part of being a wr is catching the ball. They need to catch the ball and if they can't they shouldn't be playing.
Being a wr in gb is not difficult. You don't need separation - just run the route and catch the ball because it will be there.
I am starting to remember why I stopped posting here.
Reading and comprehension is not a strong suit for some. And a sense of humor is not something that everyone has.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:01
by Drj820
BF004 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:43
PackerNation wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:14
Aaron threw a real bad pick today and another sure pick was dropped by the Saints. Someone needs to tell Aaron: "You keep throwing picks and you aren't going to be out there."
You know one of the young WRs had that somewhere in their mind today
I believe it.
Although Aaron has a history of being a lot more liberal with his throwing in practice, just to test what he can get away with.
He throws quite a few ints every tc.
On a list of things I am concerned about, Rodgers throwing a pick in a training camp practice might just be at the very bottom.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:01
by YoHoChecko
bud fox wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:33
Why are people trying to defend these rookies - part of being a wr is catching the ball. They need to catch the ball and if they can't they shouldn't be playing.
Being a wr in gb is not difficult. You don't need separation - just run the route and catch the ball because it will be there.
I really wish I had the time, patience, and technical video skills to put together a superclip of every time MLF and Aaron Rodgers have said the sentence "Being a WR here is difficult" or "we ask a lot of our WRs"
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:02
by Drj820
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 13:09
Yeah, and as another example, Deebo Samuel isn't very sure-handed. He had 8 drops last year.
Yet when people think about Deebo Samuel, they don't think of the drops; they think of him as the playmaker he is when he hangs on. In the big scheme of things, those drops are a pretty small price to pay given the plays he *does* make (and he was just richly rewarded with a new contract from the 9ers).
I would love to see the balls deeboo “dropped”. I don’t think he’s known to have bad hands because I think he catches the easy ones. Unlike say, MVS. Dropping the balls that hit you in stride while wide open is how you get a dropper reputation.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:04
by Drj820
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 19:01
bud fox wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:33
Why are people trying to defend these rookies - part of being a wr is catching the ball. They need to catch the ball and if they can't they shouldn't be playing.
Being a wr in gb is not difficult. You don't need separation - just run the route and catch the ball because it will be there.
I really wish I had the time, patience, and technical video skills to put together a superclip of every time MLF and Aaron Rodgers have said the sentence "Being a WR here is difficult" or "we ask a lot of our WRs"
All they mean by that is they are held accountable for blocking. Thus why we have tight ends playing receiver. Their top priority isn’t necessarily to catch passes, which is difficult for many quality receivers to accept
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:05
by wallyuwl
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 19:01
BF004 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:43
PackerNation wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 18:14
Aaron threw a real bad pick today and another sure pick was dropped by the Saints. Someone needs to tell Aaron: "You keep throwing picks and you aren't going to be out there."
You know one of the young WRs had that somewhere in their mind today
I believe it.
Although Aaron has a history of being a lot more liberal with his throwing in practice, just to test what he can get away with.
He throws quite a few ints every tc.
On a list of things I am concerned about, Rodgers throwing a pick in a training camp practice might just be at the very bottom.
Right down there with worrying f about Dillon's thighs antropying..
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 19:44
by Foosball
No doubt about it in my mind, Doubs is a budding star. He’s a rook so yea his mind is spinning with all kinds of information so his concentration isn’t always there. Once he becomes more comfortable with the system, I don’t see him dropping many balls. But have you seen him get off the line against press coverage? Have you seen him consistently get behind the defender? This guy can play football.
Give him a little time and I see him having some big games this year.
Now as far as drops go it’s Watson who I’m more worried about. But I guess you could put him on KR and some jet sweeps when he gets healthy. I see him as a 3 year project.
And what’s up with Tyler Davis dropping balls? Can’t wait until Tonyan is available.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 20:27
by Realist
Foosball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 19:44
No doubt about it in my mind, Doubs is a budding star. He’s a rook so yea his mind is spinning with all kinds of information so his concentration isn’t always there. Once he becomes more comfortable with the system, I don’t see him dropping many balls. But have you seen him get off the line against press coverage? Have you seen him consistently get behind the defender? This guy can play football.
Give him a little time and I see him having some big games this year.
Now as far as drops go it’s Watson who I’m more worried about. But I guess you could put him on KR and some jet sweeps when he gets healthy. I see him as a 3 year project.
And what’s up with Tyler Davis dropping balls? Can’t wait until Tonyan is available.
What were you expecting from Tyler Davis? Did I miss something while watching his 4 career receptions?
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 17 Aug 2022 20:35
by salmar80
Realist wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 20:27
Foosball wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 19:44
No doubt about it in my mind, Doubs is a budding star. He’s a rook so yea his mind is spinning with all kinds of information so his concentration isn’t always there. Once he becomes more comfortable with the system, I don’t see him dropping many balls. But have you seen him get off the line against press coverage? Have you seen him consistently get behind the defender? This guy can play football.
Give him a little time and I see him having some big games this year.
Now as far as drops go it’s Watson who I’m more worried about. But I guess you could put him on KR and some jet sweeps when he gets healthy. I see him as a 3 year project.
And what’s up with Tyler Davis dropping balls? Can’t wait until Tonyan is available.
What were you expecting from Tyler Davis? Did I miss something while watching his 4 career receptions?
Tyler Davis was an OTA darling, got some praise from the coaches. Created hope he'd be a poor man's Tonyan as a catching TE. But he's been garbage since pads came on.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 18 Aug 2022 00:16
by Labrev
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 19:02
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Aug 2022 13:09
Yeah, and as another example, Deebo Samuel isn't very sure-handed. He had 8 drops last year.
Yet when people think about Deebo Samuel, they don't think of the drops; they think of him as the playmaker he is when he hangs on. In the big scheme of things, those drops are a pretty small price to pay given the plays he *does* make (and he was just richly rewarded with a new contract from the 9ers).
I would love to see the balls deeboo “dropped”. I don’t think he’s known to have bad hands because I think he catches the easy ones. Unlike say, MVS. Dropping the balls that hit you in stride while wide open is how you get a dropper reputation.
I agree, not all drops are equally offensive. I just don't think they should be a death sentence to the playing time of guys with the ability to make splash plays, least of all young guys whose drops are probably due to them needing to mentally adjust to the speed of the game, because the solution to that is to get them used to said speed i.e. play them.
If you're a JAG, that's a different thing. Those guys usually aren't able to make up for errors with splash plays.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 18 Aug 2022 05:20
by PackerNation
Don't pay any mind to those fanboys that you can't even joke with about Aaron Rodgers...
Aaron can do no wrong to them...he throws a pick and they will come up with every excuse in the book as to why it really doesn't matter if it's Aaron.
We all love Aaron and have his back 100%, but save the he can do no wrong crap for somebody else. Same cats that put zero blame on Aaron for any loss. San Fran wasn't all special teams folks, Aaron sucked in that game. 10 points from the offense and getting outplayed by Jimmy G is unacceptable. LaFleur to blame as well. But Aaron sure as hell is to blame and he said it himself.
I was having fun with saying at least one of the young WRs probably smirked a little when Aaron threw those 2 horrible balls yesterday. It doesn't matter if it's camp or not. A pick is a pick. Do the WRs get a pass for drops because they are being more aggressive in camp? Everyone can be better and get better, including Aaron. He will tell you the same.
Stop swinging on his nuts.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 18 Aug 2022 06:18
by Yoop
PackerNation wrote: ↑18 Aug 2022 05:20
Don't pay any mind to those fanboys that you can't even joke with about Aaron Rodgers...
Aaron can do no wrong to them...he throws a pick and they will come up with every excuse in the book as to why it really doesn't matter if it's Aaron.
We all love Aaron and have his back 100%, but save the he can do no wrong crap for somebody else. Same cats that put zero blame on Aaron for any loss. San Fran wasn't all special teams folks, Aaron sucked in that game. 10 points from the offense and getting outplayed by Jimmy G is unacceptable. LaFleur to blame as well. But Aaron sure as hell is to blame and he said it himself.
I was having fun with saying at least one of the young WRs probably smirked a little when Aaron threw those 2 horrible balls yesterday. It doesn't matter if it's camp or not. A pick is a pick. Do the WRs get a pass for drops because they are being more aggressive in camp? Everyone can be better and get better, including Aaron. He will tell you the same.
Stop swinging on his nuts.
I'am proud to be a fan boy of Rodgers the QB, personally don't care for him much, but I'am no fool, Rodgers is one of the top 2 or 3 QB's I've seen in my life, and better at his position then any receiver he's ever had, including Adams
and there isn't a receiver on this team smirking at Rodgers, unlike you they respect his knowledge of the game and hope they can learn what it takes to be a successful nfl receiver.
No one is perfect including Rodgers, but he's closer to it then most ever get.
your a troll, and the reason you left here is because thats what trolls do after stirring the pot
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 18 Aug 2022 06:54
by PackerNation
Fanboy is one word. And you need to learn the difference between your and *you're.
Trying to frame me as a "troll" for speaking the truth about little fanboys like you won't make me one. You do this often.
Some good therapy for you would be admitting that the Packers win the last San Fran playoff game if Aaron played like the elite level QB that he is. Just say the San Fran loss was on Aaron, LaFleur's choices on the OL, and special teams.
This could be therapeutic for you.
Have a great day!
OneTeamOneNation
PackerNation!
