This just simply isn’t true. Capers won with Charlie Peprah at S and Frank Zombo at OLB and some real bad ILB play. Capers fizzled out here because Ted Thompson was truly atrocious down the stretch evaluating defensive back talent.
An all-pro player in every group. Not that every player was all-pro.
I am with lupe on this one. The claim that Capers needed all his position groups to have star talent to field a great defense is a tired one. The first problem with it is, which schemes out there produce great defenses without star talent at all three of the DL, LBs, and DBs? Name one elite defense that did not have a star in each of those groups. You can't do it.
The second problem (and what our fans don't seem to get) is, it is not an absolute prerequisite to have great defense to go the distance. It can be less than great/elite if the offense makes up the difference. It simply needs to not be a liability that actively costs you games.
I think this has been my stance all along
another thing concerning the Capers tenure is that we had some terrible luck with injury's, there where several seasons where we lost all starters in one position group or another, one or two seasons at CB, arguably the most important position on defense, same with Mathews Hammy's we lost him for games on end, and at times never had a positional compliment with him.
we lost I believe 3 or 4 defensive starters on that SB team, point is we had some all pro studs that helped the backups play above themselves.
now we have good talent, some good backups too, yet at times we play as though we are loaded with JV simply because they play so poorly, they look poorly coached and lack motivation to often, this group should easily be better then average, to much talent not to be top 10
So Labrev says something that didn’t happen. Tex jumps on and says yeah, lot of group think here. And yoop agrees that all 3 of you are really smart…
For thinking you are smarter than people who don’t exist.
"something that didn't happen"
I did in fact show that there was a convo where the question was posed (by you, in fact, which explains your present reaction lol) about *if* Bijan Robinson was available at our first round pick, asking, essentially, if Robinson would be a good/smart pick at our 1st?
The record shows that I was a big proponent of taking him, while all others who opined shot it down. I doubt those people would not defend their position even now, based on what they believed then.
As for "everyone" saying or not saying it... to the extent that there was a conversation in this forum about us drafting Robinson (again, IF he would have been available), this one convo was the entirety of it. I used the search feature. There was no other conversation about whether GB should draft Robinson.
So yes, going back to my original claim mid-page-4, I actually can fairly claim that I was the only proponent of drafting Robinson in 1 and the rest of forum opinion was opposed.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 10:44
by Labrev
Could it be that the majority of people on this forum who did not opine shared my opinion? Sure, that is possible.
However, the lack of conversation speaks for itself. In the lead up to the draft, fans talk unprompted about guys they want. That is why if you go back, you will find lots of conversation about guys like JSN, LVN, etc. Again, I used Search. The link was the -only- talk of drafting him, and decidedly was a "no."
Why is there no similar amount of conversation about Robinson? Simple, because our fans did not really want us to draft him/RB. Were there any doubt of that, look at the conversation I posted. When it was brought up, nobody other than me advocated for it, all others who opined did so against it. So that makes the possibility of silent majority support -highly- unlikely.
Besides which, if you abstain from giving an opinion, then the only opinions that really count are the ones that are expressed. So for all intents and purposes, the forum was opposed, because the only people on the forum who bothered to weigh in were against it (if you were for it, you should have said something than have been silent -OR- talked about him in the same breath as people talked about LVN, JSN, and other draft fan-faves).
This is how we get to the point where, when a player hits it big, seemingly everyone after the fact goes "Man, I was a big fan of his during the draft!! I totally would have loved to see him on this team!!" curiously without exception.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 10:52
by Pckfn23
I could be wrong, but I believe [mention]BF004[/mention] was referring to this:
Could it be that the majority of people on this forum who did not opine shared my opinion? Sure, that is possible.
However, the lack of conversation speaks for itself. In the lead up to the draft, fans talk unprompted about guys they want. That is why if you go back, you will find lots of conversation about guys like JSN, LVN, etc. Again, I used Search. The link was the -only- talk of drafting him, and decidedly was a "no."
Why is there no similar amount of conversation about Robinson? Simple, because our fans did not really want us to draft him/RB. Were there any doubt of that, look at the conversation I posted. When it was brought up, nobody other than me advocated for it, all others who opined did so against it. So that makes the possibility of silent majority support -highly- unlikely.
Besides which, if you abstain from giving an opinion, then the only opinions that really count are the ones that are expressed. So for all intents and purposes, the forum was opposed, because the only people on the forum who bothered to weigh in were against it (if you were for it, you should have said something than have been silent -OR- talked about him in the same breath as people talked about LVN, JSN, and other draft fan-faves).
This is how we get to the point where, when a player hits it big, seemingly everyone after the fact goes "Man, I was a big fan of his during the draft!! I totally would have loved to see him on this team!!" curiously without exception.
Holy hell, dude.
That's a whole loaf of assumptions to make one &%$@-sandwich.
What exactly are you looking for, here? A pat on the back? Here ya go, champ...
Could it be that the majority of people on this forum who did not opine shared my opinion? Sure, that is possible.
However, the lack of conversation speaks for itself. In the lead up to the draft, fans talk unprompted about guys they want. That is why if you go back, you will find lots of conversation about guys like JSN, LVN, etc. Again, I used Search. The link was the -only- talk of drafting him, and decidedly was a "no."
Why is there no similar amount of conversation about Robinson? Simple, because our fans did not really want us to draft him/RB. Were there any doubt of that, look at the conversation I posted. When it was brought up, nobody other than me advocated for it, all others who opined did so against it. So that makes the possibility of silent majority support -highly- unlikely.
Besides which, if you abstain from giving an opinion, then the only opinions that really count are the ones that are expressed. So for all intents and purposes, the forum was opposed, because the only people on the forum who bothered to weigh in were against it (if you were for it, you should have said something than have been silent -OR- talked about him in the same breath as people talked about LVN, JSN, and other draft fan-faves).
This is how we get to the point where, when a player hits it big, seemingly everyone after the fact goes "Man, I was a big fan of his during the draft!! I totally would have loved to see him on this team!!" curiously without exception.
so then are you saying that everything is normal here at the Huddle?
myself, and again, most where satisfied with the production we'd been getting from Jones and Dillon, and wanted to replace the loss of Gary this year and possibly the departure of Smith after this season, and LVN was the perfect candidate to do that and JSN looked to be the guy that Reed looks to become, RB simply wasn't high on anyone's lists.
if your looking for some sort of Huddle recognition for being the only guy to have a desire for a player that seemed hopelessly beyond our reach, OK, just don't hold your breath waiting, wouldn't want to lose ya now after we both agree about this.
Could it be that the majority of people on this forum who did not opine shared my opinion? Sure, that is possible.
However, the lack of conversation speaks for itself. In the lead up to the draft, fans talk unprompted about guys they want. That is why if you go back, you will find lots of conversation about guys like JSN, LVN, etc. Again, I used Search. The link was the -only- talk of drafting him, and decidedly was a "no."
Why is there no similar amount of conversation about Robinson? Simple, because our fans did not really want us to draft him/RB. Were there any doubt of that, look at the conversation I posted. When it was brought up, nobody other than me advocated for it, all others who opined did so against it. So that makes the possibility of silent majority support -highly- unlikely.
Besides which, if you abstain from giving an opinion, then the only opinions that really count are the ones that are expressed. So for all intents and purposes, the forum was opposed, because the only people on the forum who bothered to weigh in were against it (if you were for it, you should have said something than have been silent -OR- talked about him in the same breath as people talked about LVN, JSN, and other draft fan-faves).
This is how we get to the point where, when a player hits it big, seemingly everyone after the fact goes "Man, I was a big fan of his during the draft!! I totally would have loved to see him on this team!!" curiously without exception.
so then are you saying that everything is normal here at the Huddle?
myself, and again, most where satisfied with the production we'd been getting from Jones and Dillon, and wanted to replace the loss of Gary this year and possibly the departure of Smith after this season, and LVN was the perfect candidate to do that and JSN looked to be the guy that Reed looks to become, RB simply wasn't high on anyone's lists.
if your looking for some sort of Huddle recognition for being the only guy to have a desire for a player that seemed hopelessly beyond our reach, OK, just don't hold your breath waiting, wouldn't want to lose ya now after we both agree about this.
This is actually a very cogent summary of how I observed the mindset of the forum, and Packer fandom at large, going into the draft. Sure, Bijan is a great player and would be a fantastic addition to any team. The needs of THIS team, though, laid elsewhere.
It was never a matter of choosing between Bijan and Dillon, at least to my recollection or the way the linked prior discussion played out. It was a matter of choosing Bijan (or any other luxury player at a luxury position) over any number of other players with talent at positions of actual need.
That's a big and distinct difference from the argument you're now trying to frame.
Name one elite defense that did not have a star in each of those groups. You can't do it.
Playing devil's advocate, the 2021 Bills didn't have an All-Pro or Pro Bowler along the front.
I asked if they have a "star" in each of those groups. One can clearly see that on the DL, they had a guy named STAR Lotulelei. There you go!
In all seriousness, that is a pretty decent counter-example. Yet I don't think that year's Bills D really contradicts my stance. For one, there is no glaring weak spot in the on-paper starting defense that I can see, everyone is at least solid. Capers' bad years had starters who presented glaring weakness.
For two, All-Pro and Pro-Bowl merely indicate recognition of a star player. We see plenty of instances where players play at a very high level but get snubbed from said recognition.
I can't claim to know how any one of the players on that Bills D play, but there are several guys on that team that have loads of talent. Ed Oliver was a Top-15 draft talent who had a productive season that year, arguably his best as a pro. Milano and Edmunds were a nice LB duo for a while. There's your front. Tre White is one of the best CBs in the league, even if no ProBowl nod. Hyde and Poyer arguably the best S duo in the league.
I also believe that the O and the D help each other out in a big way. The D is going to look good when opposing O's are stressed while trying to keep up with Josh Allen and the Bills O.
This is actually a very cogent summary of how I observed the mindset of the forum, and Packer fandom at large, going into the draft. Sure, Bijan is a great player and would be a fantastic addition to any team. The needs of THIS team, though, laid elsewhere.
It was never a matter of choosing between Bijan and Dillon, at least to my recollection or the way the linked prior discussion played out. It was a matter of choosing Bijan (or any other luxury player at a luxury position) over any number of other players with talent at positions of actual need.
That's a big and distinct difference from the argument you're now trying to frame.
"Choosing Dillon over Bijan" was simply a provocative re-framing of the original claim, which was that, when the conversation about us drafting Bijan was had at all, the only opinions expressed were against it, to illicit response where people either did not see or were trying to avoid.
That's a whole loaf of assumptions to make one &%$@.
Yeah. Assumptions are always baked into claims. Like, how can I know for sure that people did not think the world was going to end before the draft took place, and does my opinion lose something for assuming nobody believed that without knowing it for sure? I can't know that for sure, but no, some assumptions are sound.
Were there any doubt that those assumptions I made were sound, you admit in your very next post that exactly what I assumed -is- probably true!!
What exactly are you looking for, here? A pat on the back? Here ya go,
As a matter of fact, yes.
Let's see how that convo went... I gave my opinion in favor of it. Then, my opinion was called stupid. That reply to me was Liked, then another replied in agreement. I made a post in defense that nobody engaged with, for or against. Lastly, another person echoed the posts in opposition to mine in a conclusory way, dismissive of any notion that there was rational reason to think otherwise.
Yes, after that, I want to force-feed some crow around.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 12:14
by NCF
You will never convince me that part of the reason the Falcons played well against us is because they were well dressed. Those throwbacks were pretty sweet.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 12:15
by Labrev
But yes, I now seek to characterize the opinion of those who disagreed with me as choosing Dillon over Bijan because, to me, it nicely illustrates how ridiculous their position was then and is now, even if that was not the conscious thinking behind their decision.
As far as I am concerned, that is what their position amounts to, regardless. To use APB's post (in defense of that general stance) to illustrate my point: what exactly made Bijan considered a "luxury" as opposed to being within the "needs" of this team?
It could be said RB position by its nature is so easy to fill that it is per-se a luxury to pay the price to get a top guy, but even with this thinking, most admit that it is a "need" all the same when you foreseeably lack anything needed from the position: rushing, catching, blocking, depth, maybe ST value.
Aaron Jones gives you a quality starter, he checks every box but ST. You still need depth. Jones also turns 28 and has been used a lot lately, so it is foreseeable that within a few years, we will not have what he brings to the table. And if there is one position and one player that you *can* count on to miss some time with injury, Jones at RB would be it.
What RB depth were we satisfied with, in the short- or long-term, enough to pass up on Bijan Robinson? Hmm... who was the presumptive RB2 on this roster??? HMMM...
Now, to the unavoidable response questioning the wisdom of using a 1st on a RB when you already have a quality starter.... Atlanta had a quality RB1 in Tyler Algier.
Are we, Packers fans, having just lost to them, glad they "wasted" their first round pick on a RB? Somehow I doubt that that's how we are feeling about it lol.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 12:23
by Crazylegs Starks
Anyway, back to the actual game...
Here's the end-zone camera view of Love "providing some juice"
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 19 Sep 2023 18:56
by RingoCStarrQB
Larrivee and Krause didn't blast LaCoach on tonight's Packers Live show.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 20 Sep 2023 03:45
by salmar80
JT loving LaFleur's playcalling and most of Love's game.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 20 Sep 2023 09:38
by Pckfn23
QB School on J Love.
Re: Week 2 Post-Game: Falcons 25 Packers 24
Posted: 20 Sep 2023 20:37
by BF004
As much as i want to say this is nearly perfect. Give it a 1/32nd of a second longer and this is a bigger window and still not a qb hit.
who was the presumptive RB2 on this roster??? HMMM... 