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Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 13:57
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 12:12
BSA wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 11:47
Not sure I agree - and here's what Andy Herman wrote about it with regards to the CLE game:
"After being called an AJ Dillon hater all offseason (I’m not), it feels weird being called an AJ Dillon apologist today (I’m not that either).
If you’re not a Dillon believer, if you like Wilson better, if you’re done with the Dillon experience, go for it, my only point is don’t base it on the 4 carries from last night where he had no chance to do anything…
I watched that, too. Here is why I don't buy it. The evidence is stacked against him. We have seen it. Over and over and over. 3 carries to get 1 yard. He couldn't do it. Why would we expect any different? He has never been able to do it. He runs too high and his vision is too poor to be a short yardage back. That is my complaint. 1st and 10 AJ Dillon is fine. Not good, but whatever. My main point is he isn't a short yardage back. Never was and never will be. That is why I am unwilling to throw those carries out against Cleveland. RB's have to be able to create on their own and when you need 1 yard, you have to get one yard. Aaron Jones was spectacular at it. Same OL. How do you account for that discrepancy?
point is Dillon struggled last night till the blocking improved, which was after Dillon left, and Cleveland subbed out there starting DL, so it's hard to compare Dillon with our other RB's like Wilson.
Dillon lacks vision and also burst, he's not a gap runner in the least, and we do more man o man blocking now then we did 3 years ago, basically (jmo) Dillon is a 1 cut A gap runner, strictly a zone RB.
and we've seen him bust those short yardage runs when he was used more a couple years ago when we used him like a zone 1 cut and go RB, sorry to repeat, but that point has to be clear
AJ is not a RB ya want to give choice to, cause he'll blow it every time
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 14:23
by lupedafiasco
Ill say it. Id rather have Jarveon Howard than AJ Dillon.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 15:01
by NCF
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 14:23
Ill say it. Id rather have Jarveon Howard than AJ Dillon.
I won't and only because blitz pick-up and what Dillon can do (although still limited) in the passing game. If we are talking pure running instincts, then I am right back with you.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 15:14
by BSA
.
pckfn23 commented about Dillon's shortcomings in short yardage too - so that seems to be the general consensus here.
AJ's built like a battering ram, but he doesn't play like one. MLF and Steno talked about the crappy blocking on that series, but MLF also said sometimes you need to just burrow in there and create your own damn hole.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 17:15
by BSA
.
Running backs coach Ben Sirmans post-CLE
On Emanuel Wilson's improvement:
The main thing is just understanding the offense. He's not out there thinking as much before each play like he did last year – which can happen to a lot of rookies. So he's put himself in position just through his ability to study and ask questions and see things and have reps at different things. That's what you're seeing, that he's a lot more comfortable back there because he has a better understanding of what he's doing and what we're trying to do in the offense.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 17:35
by NCF
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 17:47
by go pak go
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 08:15
by NCF
go pak go wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 17:47
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Eh, I still like Ballentine as a pure coverage CB over Rochelle, but I do think Rochelle is making this team.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 10:08
by RingoCStarrQB
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 08:15
go pak go wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 17:47
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Eh, I still like Ballentine as a pure coverage CB over Rochelle, but I do think Rochelle is making this team.
It's ROCHELL (no "E" at the end. GO PACK GO!
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 10:11
by NCF
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 10:08
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 08:15
go pak go wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 17:47
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Eh, I still like Ballentine as a pure coverage CB over Rochelle, but I do think Rochelle is making this team.
It's ROCHELL (no "E" at the end. GO PACK GO!
A young girl's strange erotic journey from Milan to Minsk.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 10:41
by YoHoChecko
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 08:15
go pak go wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 17:47
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Eh, I still like Ballentine as a pure coverage CB over Rochelle, but I do think Rochelle is making this team.
So let's work through this.
Jaire, Stokes, Nixon, and Valentine are locks.
King, a 7th-round draft pick this year, has looked clearly like a worthwhile project and future nickel corner--and they unlikely can stash him like DuBose could because he was injured throughout camp.
That's 5 right there. Ballentine and Rochell are the two options if there's a 6th. Ballentine, King, and Rochel could all be fighting for 1 or 2 spots.
In that framing, I think Ballentine might be the most likely odd man out.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 10:48
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 10:41
In that framing, I think Ballentine might be the most likely odd man out.
Let's get some 53 predictions going. I was meaning to do one anyway.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 11:01
by BSA
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 10:48
Let's get some 53 predictions going. I was meaning to do one anyway.
Sounds lovely. And don't forget the new IR rules for 2024, big change on the roster- building side. Teams don't have to put a guy on the 53 first before sending them to short term IR. They can be put on IR in September and return after 4 weeks without counting against the 53
So for the RB room, it might look like this:
Jacobs-Dillon-Wilson on 53 and put M. Lloyd on IR. Then he doesn't have to be on the 53, you don't have to expose Wilson and Lloyd can come back after game 4. With Lloyd's hamstring injury and him needing work in pass pro, you're not really losing much going this route
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 11:17
by Labrev
Rochell to PS, easy. Ballentine is a good backup corner and also has ST value. Rochell had a nice outing, but nothing that would make me worry about getting enough interest from other teams to lose him.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 11:17
by YoHoChecko
BSA wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 11:01
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 10:48
Let's get some 53 predictions going. I was meaning to do one anyway.
Sounds lovely. And don't forget the new IR rules for 2024, big change on the roster- building side. Teams don't have to put a guy on the 53 first before sending them to short term IR. They can be put on IR in September and return after 4 weeks without counting against the 53
So for the RB room, it might look like this:
Jacobs-Dillon-Wilson on 53 and put M. Lloyd on IR. Then he doesn't have to be on the 53, you don't have to expose Wilson and Lloyd can come back after game 4. With Lloyd's hamstring injury and him needing work in pass pro, you're not really losing much going this route
Oh that's awesome news; I had missed that. I think the RB situation is the right place to highlight it, as well.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 11:28
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 11:17
BSA wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 11:01
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 10:48
Let's get some 53 predictions going. I was meaning to do one anyway.
Sounds lovely. And don't forget the new IR rules for 2024, big change on the roster- building side. Teams don't have to put a guy on the 53 first before sending them to short term IR. They can be put on IR in September and return after 4 weeks without counting against the 53
So for the RB room, it might look like this:
Jacobs-Dillon-Wilson on 53 and put M. Lloyd on IR. Then he doesn't have to be on the 53, you don't have to expose Wilson and Lloyd can come back after game 4. With Lloyd's hamstring injury and him needing work in pass pro, you're not really losing much going this route
Oh that's awesome news; I had missed that. I think the RB situation is the right place to highlight it, as well.
Improves upon the PUP route at the beginning the season. Six weeks always seemed too long.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 12:04
by go pak go
NCF wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 08:15
go pak go wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024 17:47
Yeah the talk was "do we keep 7 WRs?"
No the talk should be "do we keep 6...7 CBs?"
Rochelle was insane on Saturday. I have him above Ballentine at the moment.
Eh, I still like Ballentine as a pure coverage CB over Rochelle, but I do think Rochelle is making this team.
I actually think Rochell has a better chance of being activated each week with a healthy CB room because of his STs value. Ballentine is probably the better boundary CB but I think Rochell likely has more STs value.
I am confident you can keep Ballentine on the Psquad. You then elevate him when active roster CBs get injured. I just think keeping 7 CBs is very unlikely.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 12:28
by BSA
go pak go wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 12:04
I actually think Rochell has a better chance of being activated each week with a healthy CB room because of his STs value
Here's snap counts by game and by position group from 2023. You'll see GB activated 4 CBs for early part of season and then added Rochell to have 5 active CBs later in the year. But he didn't play many snaps. ( I believe these snap counts are defense only)
The bulk of the CB snaps on defense were limited to 3 guys each week- but now we have a different DC and new rules on kickoffs, so we'll likely see some changes here
https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap ... &year=2023
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 14:29
by go pak go
BSA wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 12:28
go pak go wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024 12:04
I actually think Rochell has a better chance of being activated each week with a healthy CB room because of his STs value
Here's snap counts by game and by position group from 2023. You'll see GB activated 4 CBs for early part of season and then added Rochell to have 5 active CBs later in the year. But he didn't play many snaps. ( I believe these snap counts are defense only)
The bulk of the CB snaps on defense were limited to 3 guys each week- but now we have a different DC and new rules on kickoffs, so we'll likely see some changes here
https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap ... &year=2023
Yeah that's all fine and good but I don't get your point at all.
My point was the following:
1. I feel Rochell has a leg up over Ballentine because of STs value. Rochell can be activated on game days for punt coverage and punt return but not play defensive snaps. Thus it makes sense to keep on the 53.
2. Ballentine could be stashed on the practice squad and called up to play actual defensive snaps if there are injuries.
But overall between Ballentine and Rochell, it makes more sense to keep the STs value on the 53 and keep the better "break if emergency" defensive cornerback on the practice squad and use the limited active game day call ups only when necessary.
The risk obviously is if another team plucks Ballentine.
Re: Packers @ Browns Preseason GDT: Saturday, August 10th, 3:25 PM CST
Posted: 13 Aug 2024 15:17
by lupedafiasco
The Packers will surely be looking at STs value when it comes to their 5th and 6th string CBs. I don’t think they keep 7 though. I think teams will look to go heavy at TE, LB, and S for kickoffs. Probably go 1 DB and 1 WR as gunners. But if Williams beats out Bullard I think that’s a place he could shine for sure.
I still think best thing to do for this team is to play Bullard as the nickel, Williams as the starting SS specializing in the box and you just straight up bench Nixon. If that’s what they do Nixon would be the STs ace across all teams. I doubt LaFleur has the balls. He’s always too careful with his rookies that end up starting down the road anyways.