Packers Huddle

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 09:55**

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 03:11
Look at the problem from the other angle: What do the Packers need to get to the SB?

#1 They need to fix the Oline.

With Bak recuperating, they have no one who can play LT except Jenkins and that means they can't put Jenkins at center. So they need to resign Linsley. Rodgers has already had a few concussions, and keeping Trunstyle Turner at LT is the best way I know of to end AR's career with another concussion. or for that matter another type of injury.

The Linsley resigned and Jenkins at LT for the first half of the season, they need to replace the LG. Fortunately they already have Runyan who solves that problem. Next is RG. Patrick is a small upgrade over Turner at RG and maybe Stepaniak can be even better. Alternately maybe Lane Taylor has 1 more year in him but the Packers could probably save some cap by cutting him.

And that leaves RT. Wagner is what he is, an average RT. Veldheer was an above average OT but he is not young and might be no better than Wagner now. Nijman is big and athletic but the Packers knew that both Wagner and Turner would need a lot of help against the Bucs and yet they started and Nijman did not - not inspiring. It is remotely possible that Runyan can play RT and if Stepaniak can start this is an option. But still, IMO, the Packers need to draft a starting RT in the worst way and if that means moving up in the first round, so be it.

So if all things fall right, the Packers go into 2021 with an improved Oline and Bak coming back midseason turns it into a top 5 Oline. Cutting Turner does not pay for Linsley but it pays for a big chunk of Linsley. Cutting both Turner and Wagner more than pays for Linsley.

#2 Then they need to bring back Jones. Top 5 RB's do not grow on trees and he is probably top 2 as a combination runner and receiver. As others have said, tag him and keep him. Williams can walk and they can use a mid round draft pick on the 3rd RB.

That leaves replacing King. Draft 3 CB's between rounds 2-7 and see what happens.

I don't see that it is necessary to restructure AR to do all this. Cutting Preston Smith and Turner and restructuring D. Adams is enough to do all of this and maybe still have enough for a FA.

That is quite a lot of doom and gloom for what is a very good offensive line. Not sure how you are expecting an improved OL, they were literally the best in the NFL last year.

And yes, you lose the best LT in football and you are surprised we don't have a quality backup. 50% of the NFL doesn't have a quality LT starter let alone backups laying around.

I'd put money on Bak being back sooner than later, I wouldn't plan a ton replacing him at tackle, I do think Veldheer would make a ton of sense to bring in as the stop gap, potential swing tackle all year.

Billy Turner was better than expected at RT, I keep him there, which means I cut Wagner. His NFC Championship performance was detrimental and there just isn't room for a backup RTO on 2nd contract on an NFL roster. I would also like to not rely on Turner at LT anymore. Keeping Veldheer on roster this year makes a ton more sense to me than Nijman at this point.

No reason to expect anything from Nijman, Stepaniak or Hansen till they actually ever show anything. I would build the roster as if they weren't even here, and if any of them ever do anything, then gravy.

Can't cut Lane Taylor to save money, he isn't signed. But I'd take him back at vet min over keeping Wagner at his salary.

Runyan looked okay when called on, not sure if he is ready to start yet.

I would definitely try to resign Linsley. If we don't, could definitely use some draft capital added, and would make Lane Taylor signing a very smart move.

Week 1 OL, Veldheer, Runyan/Taylor, Jenkins, Patrick, Turner.

lol, that just looks weird.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 12:05**

I think an OT is a very likely draft pick in the first 3 rounds this year. There are a lot of them and it would make sense to grab one if the board falls that way.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 12:08**

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 09:55

That is quite a lot of doom and gloom for what is a very good offensive line. Not sure how you are expecting an improved OL, they were literally the best in the NFL last year. And yes, you lose the best LT in football and you are surprised we don't have a quality backup. 50% of the NFL doesn't have a quality LT starter let alone backups laying around.

I'd put money on Bak being back sooner than later, I wouldn't plan a ton replacing him at tackle, I do think Veldheer would make a ton of sense to bring in as the stop gap, potential swing tackle all year.

Billy Turner was better than expected at RT, I keep him there, which means I cut Wagner. His NFC Championship performance was detrimental and there just isn't room for a backup RTO on 2nd contract on an NFL roster. I would also like to not rely on Turner at LT anymore. Keeping Veldheer on roster this year makes a ton more sense to me than Nijman at this point.

No reason to expect anything from Nijman, Stepaniak or Hansen till they actually ever show anything. I would build the roster as if they weren't even here, and if any of them ever do anything, then gravy.

Can't cut Lane Taylor to save money, he isn't signed. But I'd take him back at vet min over keeping Wagner at his salary.

Runyan looked okay when called on, not sure if he is ready to start yet.

I would definitely try to resign Linsley. If we don't, could definitely use some draft capital added, and would make Lane Taylor signing a very smart move.

Week 1 OL, Veldheer, Runyan/Taylor, Jenkins, Patrick, Turner.

lol, that just looks weird.

Week 1
Jenkins Runyan, Linsley, Patrick, Veldheer Adequate OL

Week 8
Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Runyan, Veldheer or Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Patrick, Runyan This is a very good Oline.

What is also very good is that these are affordable.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 12:43**

You forget about Turner?

You also might be jumping the gun on Runyan starting, particularly at tackle. Not something I’d be banking on going into the season. So nice we got Turner there.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 13:31**

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:08
Week 1
Jenkins Runyan, Linsley, Patrick, Veldheer Adequate OL

Week 8
Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Runyan, Veldheer or Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Patrick, Runyan This is a very good Oline.

What is also very good is that these are affordable.

Jared Veldheer is not on the Packers and I would be surprised if he is on the 2021 Packers unless we think we can get him for considerably less than Wagner.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 16:56**

go pak go wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 13:31

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:08
Week 1
Jenkins Runyan, Linsley, Patrick, Veldheer Adequate OL

Week 8
Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Runyan, Veldheer or Bak, Jenkins, Linsley, Patrick, Runyan This is a very good Oline.

What is also very good is that these are affordable.
Jared Veldheer is not on the Packers and I would be surprised if he is on the 2021 Packers unless we think we can get him for considerably less than Wagner.

Well, technically he is on the packers until the league new year.

Guy has an all but guaranteed spot starting LT for a month or two here.

Posted: **17 Feb 2021 17:32**

'Sure would have been nice to play him at LT in our last game!

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 03:08**

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:43
You forget about Turner?

You also might be jumping the gun on Runyan starting, particularly at tackle. Not something I’d be banking on going into the season. So nice we got Turner there.

No, I did not forget about Turner. I think he is maybe the 60th best starting guard in the NFL and the 100th best OT in the league. There are practice squad OT's that are better than him. And yet he is highly paid. He should be a salary cap cut. I do not believe in keeping below average players beyond their rookie contracts and that is what he is, a below average player paid as if he were an above average guard. And as an OT, he simply sucks. As a guard, Runyan is better. Taylor is better. Patrick is better. And all 3 make a lot less money than Turner.

Letting him play at LT until Bak returns is the best way I know to end AR's career. 1 bad concussion and AR is done. Think about that.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 04:02**

I would be all for cutting Turner but with Bak out you probably have to keep him for depth and versatility. He should absolutely not be getting paid what he is making. What a robbery.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 04:06**

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:43
You forget about Turner?

You also might be jumping the gun on Runyan starting, particularly at tackle. Not something I’d be banking on going into the season. So nice we got Turner there.

Runyan or Stepaniak or both will be a starting guard I think next season. I doubt they resign Linsley with the cap and having taken 3 rookies last class on the interior. I think they’ll move Jenkins to center where he played well in college. I doubt there’s a fall off and he might even be better at center. The battle in camp should be a good one. You’ve gotta think Patrick isn’t going to win out between some younger draftees but it’s possible he’s a battler. Stepaniak was supposed to go higher if not for being beat up heading into the draft. I’m high on Runyan myself. Loved him before the draft.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 06:53**

Wow, okay. Umm....

You are both just simply flat out wrong.

You have an unwarranted bias against Turner and it’s disappointing and downright comical neither of you are even willing to consider you might have been wrong about him.

He was flat out a good RT last year.

No point in carrying out a conversation with either of you if it is more important to stick with your narrative than it is to try to be honest with yourself.

Ridiculous.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 07:08**

BF004 wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 06:53
Wow, okay. Umm....

You are both just simply flat out wrong.

You have an unwarranted bias against Turner and it’s disappointing and downright comical neither of you are even willing to consider you might have been wrong about him.

He was flat out a good RT last year.

No point in carrying out a conversation with either of you if it is more important to stick with your narrative than it is to try to be honest with yourself.

Ridiculous.

well said, and to think we'll just move Jenkins to LT is a guess at best, in fact it is far to hard for any novice on this forum to think they know who will be playing where, we have seen how versatile 3 or 4 members of it are, why anyone would think they have a handle on this stuff isw mind boggling.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 08:23**

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 08:29**

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 04:06

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:43
You forget about Turner?

You also might be jumping the gun on Runyan starting, particularly at tackle. Not something I’d be banking on going into the season. So nice we got Turner there.
Runyan or Stepaniak or both will be a starting guard I think next season. I doubt they resign Linsley with the cap and having taken 3 rookies last class on the interior. I think they’ll move Jenkins to center where he played well in college. I doubt there’s a fall off and he might even be better at center. The battle in camp should be a good one. You’ve gotta think Patrick isn’t going to win out between some younger draftees but it’s possible he’s a battler. Stepaniak was supposed to go higher if not for being beat up heading into the draft. I’m high on Runyan myself. Loved him before the draft.

I am higher on Stepaniak than most are, too. The "haven't seen him" crowd is right, but this is also a player with much higher pedigree than his draft status. I also think Stepaniak better fits the mold of what the Packers look for at LG. Remember Lucas Patrick struggled mightily a couple of times last season at LG yet was very consistent and reliable at RG.

My thinking as of right now:

Rookie or stop-gap at LT - Stepaniak - Jenkins - Patrick/Runyan - Turner

I know Turner is an option at LT because that is what they did this year, but given our Bak problems only impact the beginning of the year, I think we might see a stop gap in there to keep the rest of the line stable when Bak returns (hopefully sooner rather than later). If we pick an OT high, I can easily see him getting first shake.

Given the cap, I think they need the savings from Wagner even though I believe he played well. He was signed as a potential starter and payed dividends last year, but with Turner clearly the RT of the present, can't afford the luxury Wagner offers.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 08:49**

With a flood of veterans everyone expects to hit the open market and oversaturate the market, don't you think there are a lot of players who would rather take the sure bet and agree to a pay cut? I keep thinking of how nice it would be to keep Preston Smith around, but not at his current number. If he took a $5M haircut in base salary this year, it would lower his cap number to $11M and he would still pocket about $7M in cash this year. Do we really think he can do better than that on the market? The big names will still get big deals, but as you go down the list, those big contracts are going to dry up awfully fast.

Similar scenario with Rick Wagner although if I were him, I would rather hit the market to see what I could get.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 10:46**

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 10:46**

NCF wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 08:29

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 04:06

BF004 wrote: ↑
17 Feb 2021 12:43
You forget about Turner?

You also might be jumping the gun on Runyan starting, particularly at tackle. Not something I’d be banking on going into the season. So nice we got Turner there.
Runyan or Stepaniak or both will be a starting guard I think next season. I doubt they resign Linsley with the cap and having taken 3 rookies last class on the interior. I think they’ll move Jenkins to center where he played well in college. I doubt there’s a fall off and he might even be better at center. The battle in camp should be a good one. You’ve gotta think Patrick isn’t going to win out between some younger draftees but it’s possible he’s a battler. Stepaniak was supposed to go higher if not for being beat up heading into the draft. I’m high on Runyan myself. Loved him before the draft.
I am higher on Stepaniak than most are, too. The "haven't seen him" crowd is right, but this is also a player with much higher pedigree than his draft status. I also think Stepaniak better fits the mold of what the Packers look for at LG. Remember Lucas Patrick struggled mightily a couple of times last season at LG yet was very consistent and reliable at RG.

My thinking as of right now:

Rookie or stop-gap at LT - Stepaniak - Jenkins - Patrick/Runyan - Turner

I know Turner is an option at LT because that is what they did this year, but given our Bak problems only impact the beginning of the year, I think we might see a stop gap in there to keep the rest of the line stable when Bak returns (hopefully sooner rather than later). If we pick an OT high, I can easily see him getting first shake.

Given the cap, I think they need the savings from Wagner even though I believe he played well. He was signed as a potential starter and payed dividends last year, but with Turner clearly the RT of the present, can't afford the luxury Wagner offers.

I'm with you on Stepaniak. The Packers drafted him knowing he was going to miss the season. But the tape on him is really promising, the dude is a bruiser. People talk about adding attitude to the team, this guy has it by the truck load.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 11:19**

BF004 wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 10:46

That would mean cap number of $43.352 million in 2022 and $17.852 Million guaranteed. 2023 would see a cap hit of $31.852 Million with $6.352 Million in guarantee for that year. Could restructure that again in 2022 to lower the cap hit by $5 million again, evening out the cap hits over those 2 seasons.

Doable, especially if we have every intention of keeping him through 2023. It definitely makes it tough to cut him after 2021 with a $24.204 Million dead cap hit.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 11:51**

BF004 wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 06:53
Wow, okay. Umm....

You are both just simply flat out wrong.

You have an unwarranted bias against Turner and it’s disappointing and downright comical neither of you are even willing to consider you might have been wrong about him.

He was flat out a good RT last year.

No point in carrying out a conversation with either of you if it is more important to stick with your narrative than it is to try to be honest with yourself.

Ridiculous.

He was flat out moved to guard until Bak got hurt.

He played better this year than he did last season. That sadly is not saying much.

Posted: **18 Feb 2021 12:06**

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 11:51

BF004 wrote: ↑
18 Feb 2021 06:53
Wow, okay. Umm....

You are both just simply flat out wrong.

You have an unwarranted bias against Turner and it’s disappointing and downright comical neither of you are even willing to consider you might have been wrong about him.

He was flat out a good RT last year.

No point in carrying out a conversation with either of you if it is more important to stick with your narrative than it is to try to be honest with yourself.

Ridiculous.
He was flat out moved to guard until Bak got hurt.

He played better this year than he did last season. That sadly is not saying much.

started at RT, moved to RG, then back to tackle, Turner played 3 different positions and did it well,

True, other positions could hold their own at the top of the depth chart, but none on the Packers' offense matched the line’s depth of talent. David Bakhtiari and Corey Linsley gave the line a pair of first-team All-Pros. Elgton Jenkins was selected to the Pro Bowl, remarkable for a second-year lineman at a position where name recognition often equates to awards. Then there were the unsung cogs, Billy Turner’s ability to play almost any position well, Rick Wagner’s surprising depth off the sideline, Lucas Patrick’s plug-and-play capability at guard, even rookie Jon Runyan Jr.’s quality spot snaps.

illy Turner: Entered season as preferred right tackle after starting every game at right guard in 2019. Missed first two games of season with knee injury suffered late in training camp but did not miss a snap because of injury in final 16 games, counting playoffs. Revelation as Swiss-army knife in Packers' line, moving over to left tackle in Bakhtiari’s absence. Allowed four sacks in 536 pass snaps, two as left tackle in NFC championship game. Beat on a bull rush as right guard against Carolina tackle Derrick Brown, leading to a sack. In same game, had key block against tackle Bravvion Roy that sprung Jones’ 46-yard run. One of the most important unsung contributors on the team. Grade: B

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