Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:52

Which teams have a better #2? I'll start:
Falcons

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

NCF wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:41

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:40

I think we just drafted our #2 receiver and Lazard and MVS will duel each other for #3 targets, my money is on MVS.

In 2021? I think MVS and Lazard are both poised to see more targets this year than Rodgers. He is not walking into a #2 role.

If Lafluer can get Ervin ready in a off season then Rodgers will be even easier, did you see Lafluer talk about Rodgers? he was salivating just thinking about what he can do with a player like Rodgers, everything about what Lafluer has been doing screams for a guy like Rodgers, why do you think I'am so upset with Guty for not taking a slot guy last year with more pedigree then Ervin, seriously till Ervin was hurt defenses had no idea how to stop our offense, after his injury the offense had to adapt to something else, and it did so very well with Jones and Adams, but can you imagine what would have happened had either of them had a season ender.
this idea that rookies can't start and do well is so old school McCarthy.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:57

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:52

MVS and Lazard absolutely make the scouting report. They play. They both help in different ways. 2 different games.

They can be competent/average #2s.

Had Lazard not gotten hurt, I could see us talking about him as a good #2. It reminds me of Adams and his 2nd year, to a lesser extent.

@go pak go hit the nail on the head with comparing to the Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Jones years. It has lead to some unrealistic expectations.

Which teams have a better #2? I'll start:
Falcons

Surely we arent delusional enough to think Allen Lazard is just waiting to blossom into Davante Adams.

Hence I said to a lesser extent. Surely you read that?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:02

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:57

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:52

MVS and Lazard absolutely make the scouting report. They play. They both help in different ways. 2 different games.

They can be competent/average #2s.

Had Lazard not gotten hurt, I could see us talking about him as a good #2. It reminds me of Adams and his 2nd year, to a lesser extent.

@go pak go hit the nail on the head with comparing to the Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Jones years. It has lead to some unrealistic expectations.

Which teams have a better #2? I'll start:
Falcons

Surely we arent delusional enough to think Allen Lazard is just waiting to blossom into Davante Adams.

Hence I said to a lesser extent. Surely you read that?

I am Davante Adams, to a lesser extent.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:02

If Lafluer can get Ervin ready in a off season then Rodgers will be even easier, did you see Lafluer talk about Rodgers? he was salivating just thinking about what he can do with a player like Rodgers, everything about what Lafluer has been doing screams for a guy like Rodgers, why do you think I'am so upset with Guty for not taking a slot guy last year with more pedigree then Ervin, seriously till Ervin was hurt defenses had no idea how to stop our offense,

Yoop's perception of Tyler Ervin's 2020 vs reality.



But I too am low key super excited about Amari. I am hopeful he can be like a Deebo Samuel in this offense.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:52

Which teams have a better #2? I'll start:
Falcons

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

well my memory can't bring any others up, but as of last year there are about 17 or so others that have better #2's

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:00

So like Devin Funchess and Allen Lazard are extremely similar player types--big slots with outstanding height, good girth, and do a lot of work in the middle of the field.

This isn't Allen Lazard any longer since losing weight.

There is still a stigma on Lazard that he is a borderline TE. Not the case.

I'm not stigmatizing anyone; I'm commenting on the player. He's 6'5" and listed at 227. Now he came into the league around that, so if he is down about 20 pounds we're looking at a guy that's 210. Funchess is listed at 6'4" 224. They're listed 3 pounds apart and are probably/maybe now closer to 10-15 pounds apart. But they're both big and physical, and both lack top-end speed--even if Lazard has gained some. They undoubtably lack the top-end.

Their yards per catch are similar, as well. Lazard had 13.6 and 13.7; Funchess has had 13.8, 16.1, 13.3, 12.5...

And they both seem to make a lot of catches inside the hashes. Funchess more so than Lazard, I'd guess; but still, similarly high.

They're both tall, physical lunch pail receivers who serve mostly but not exclusively as big slot targets

For real.

15 targets and 13 rushes in 8 games. He touched the ball 24 times from scrimmage, 3 times a game. He added a dimension, but for the love of God, he is not what made the offense go.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... nd_rushing

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:08

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

well my memory can't bring any others up, but as of last year there are about 17 or so others that have better #2's

So you say your memory can't think of any other teams but then casually slide in "about 17 or so other teams have better #2's."

I am going to see if I can start posting with your logic and see how it goes for a bit.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:52

Which teams have a better #2? I'll start:
Falcons

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

Throw the Steelers in, Johnson and Smith-Schuster
Rams, Kupp and Woods.

I would say Bengals similar, not noticeably better.

Who else?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:08

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:00

So like Devin Funchess and Allen Lazard are extremely similar player types--big slots with outstanding height, good girth, and do a lot of work in the middle of the field.

This isn't Allen Lazard any longer since losing weight.

There is still a stigma on Lazard that he is a borderline TE. Not the case.

I'm not stigmatizing anyone; I'm commenting on the player. He's 6'5" and listed at 227. Now he came into the league around that, so if he is down about 20 pounds we're looking at a guy that's 210. Funchess is listed at 6'4" 224. They're listed 3 pounds apart and are probably/maybe now closer to 10-15 pounds apart. But they're both big and physical, and both lack top-end speed--even if Lazard has gained some. They undoubtably lack the top-end.

Their yards per catch are similar, as well. Lazard had 13.6 and 13.7; Funchess has had 13.8, 16.1, 13.3, 12.5...

And they both seem to make a lot of catches inside the hashes. Funchess more so than Lazard, I'd guess; but still, similarly high.

They're both tall, physical lunch pail receivers who serve mostly but not exclusively as big slot targets

And the bold is the stigma that persists. He had the same 40 as Adams at 227. At 210, in 2019 he was noticeably faster. The lacking top end speed part is just not him any longer.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:02

If Lafluer can get Ervin ready in a off season then Rodgers will be even easier, did you see Lafluer talk about Rodgers? he was salivating just thinking about what he can do with a player like Rodgers, everything about what Lafluer has been doing screams for a guy like Rodgers, why do you think I'am so upset with Guty for not taking a slot guy last year with more pedigree then Ervin, seriously till Ervin was hurt defenses had no idea how to stop our offense,

Yoop's perception of Tyler Ervin's 2020 vs reality.

ya I'am just delusional, a good motion man freezes a defense, and will drag coverage to the motion as Ervin did.

love how someone pointed out that Ervins production was so minimal to somehow win the argument months back which in itself was wrong, Ervin had a 7 yrd average per touch, and even though he only had about 14 or so touches, that production forced defenses to honor him when he motioned across the backfield, and I don't eat fast food, thanks.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:11

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:08

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

well my memory can't bring any others up, but as of last year there are about 17 or so others that have better #2's

So you say your memory can't think of any other teams but then casually slide in "about 17 or so other teams have better #2's."

I am going to see if I can start posting with your logic and see how it goes for a bit.

GO LOOK IT UP

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:17

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:11

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:08

well my memory can't bring any others up, but as of last year there are about 17 or so others that have better #2's

So you say your memory can't think of any other teams but then casually slide in "about 17 or so other teams have better #2's."

I am going to see if I can start posting with your logic and see how it goes for a bit.

GO LOOK IT UP

Look what up?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:12

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

Throw the Steelers in, Johnson and Smith-Schuster
Rams, Kupp and Woods.

I would say Bengals similar, not noticeably better.

Who else?

1. Atlanta
2. Cleveland
3. Dallas
4. Tampa Bay
5. LA Rams
6. Seattle
7. Minnesota
8. Pittsburgh

I reposted someone at FF once saying something down the lines of ~'I prefer to say, rather than X player is good or that they suck, to talk about what their strengths and weaknesses are as players.'

I actually think Lazard and MVS are excellent complements to Adams, this WR trio is exactly what I think most coaches would draw up as an ideal (realistic) top three at WR: stud WR1, vertical threat, big possession receiver.

It's just that people tend to envision it being better than it actually is in reality. Your deep threat guy's hands aren't great? Yeah, if he had great hands, he'd be a highly-paid WR1. Your possession receiver does not make explosive plays? Yeah, if he were explosive in addition to having nice size, he'd also be a #1 (elsewhere).

I was a bit of a Lazard skeptic at the end of last season, but I think he has shown he can play.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:17

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:17

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:11

So you say your memory can't think of any other teams but then casually slide in "about 17 or so other teams have better #2's."

I am going to see if I can start posting with your logic and see how it goes for a bit.

GO LOOK IT UP

Look what up?

Woah.

He was right.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:12

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 15:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 14:54

Oh fun!

Browns

Il name a few and let someone else name the next few on the long list.

Seahawks with Metcalf and Lockett
Cowboys with Amari and Ceedee
Bengals with Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd
Bucs with Evans and Godwin

Throw the Steelers in, Johnson and Smith-Schuster
Rams, Kupp and Woods.

I would say Bengals similar, not noticeably better.

Who else?

Oh I think Tyler Boyd is MUCH better than MVS or Lazard. I was considering Jamar Chase their WR1.

Cardinals with Nuk, Kirk, and Larry Fitz

Niners with Aiyuk Deebo as the number 2

Skins with McLauren or Curtis Samuel as the 2

Giants with Galladay, and then Toney or Sterling Shephard as the 2. Shepherd is better than Lazard or MVS. He already is even with little Daniel Jones throwing to him

Dolphins with Jaylen Waddle as the 1 and Devante Parker as the 2. He is every bit of Lazard, imagine if he Rodgers tossing to him.

Chargers: Keenan Allen and Mike Williams

Chiefs: Mecole Hardeman is better than MVS and Lazard.

Bills: Cole Beesley almost went for 1000 yards last year, hes better than MVS and Lazard with Diggs as the 1

There are some more too. The list is pretty deep.

Again, I am not saying this O requires the best and brightest WR2, that is not my argument...i just dont think MVS or Lazard are good WR2s, thats the point I am making.

They are competent #2s, Lazard more so, MVS a much better player when he can be a #3. Aware not devoid of a #2.

Some of those #2s mentioned are very questionable.

So it looks like we are at about 12 to 15 teams or so that we have come up with better #2's for sure over GB.

So again we are probably in that average, MAYBE slightly below average in the league at the #2 spot. I would call that competent.

If we are ecstatic about a #12 defense, we shouldn't be upset about a #15 to #20 ranked WR2 when we already have the other weapons around that WR.