Jordan Love 2023 Expectation/Player Comparison

[Half Empty]

Yet another case of yoop arguing something no one is arguing against...

But folks continue to reply to those arguments instead of letting them die an ignored death.

[Drj820]

Not sure if anyone subscribes to Sirius xm, but they have an app where you can go back and listen to older stuff. Lance medow interviewed Loves coach at Utah state for first three years. Great interview, very insightful. Talked about his character, his upbringing, and recruiting process.

It was on mad dog channel 82 around 9:45am if you want to go back and check it out

[salmar80]

AND Kirk Cousins, on that team--both rookies the same year; RGIII won rookie of the year, then his body busted and Kirk came right in as a viable starter, though MLF was gone by then.

I made a strong, early case for MLF (before McCarthy was fired) based on the fact that QBs everywhere he went played their best football. The RGII best as a rookie, the Matt Ryan MVP season, Mariota wasn't good but his completion percentage at least shot up.

Then he came here and Rodgers, too, played the best football of his career; and MLF has received far too little credit for all of that.


With the development of Love from where we've seen him (low) to where we've seen him (high), it cannot be argued any longer that MLF is a true-blooded QB whisperer--a revered asset in the NFL for generations. And I'm happy to have him.

Excuse me ................ then if MLF is/was so great why did it take LaCoach 3 years and 7 2023 games to coach Jordan Love up? That seems more like dereliction of duty more than anything.

Did MLF like steal your car or rat you out on something 20+ years ago that we don't know about?

Man. You have got it IN for this guy. Your level of disdain for MLF is absolutely wild.

I mean, LaFleur HAS dropped to just 10th in all-time win-loss percentage. One spot behind Halas. Unacceptable.

[APB]

If mod apb is going to attack me, he should at least first be accurate. I was harsh on Lafleur earlier in the year, and I laughed at GPG when he suggested the team could win 10 games.

In these areas I am hopefully wrong about the win total, and I certainly think Lafleur deserves credit for two years in a row righting a storm and getting the team back on track.

But writing off Love, or giving up on him, of this…I am innocent. If anything I consistently blamed the trash around him and said that any qb would look bad with what he was dealing with.

Oh, you poor soul. Being held to account for your past vitriol toward players, staff and members of this forum. You were all too keen on ripping into members here a month ago, even force feeding your brand of crow onto them. Remember, Mr. Winning Team? And now you wanna whine about being "attacked" when someone uses your own words against you?

Too funny.

[Drj820]

If mod apb is going to attack me, he should at least first be accurate. I was harsh on Lafleur earlier in the year, and I laughed at GPG when he suggested the team could win 10 games.

In these areas I am hopefully wrong about the win total, and I certainly think Lafleur deserves credit for two years in a row righting a storm and getting the team back on track.

But writing off Love, or giving up on him, of this…I am innocent. If anything I consistently blamed the trash around him and said that any qb would look bad with what he was dealing with.

Oh, you poor soul. Being held to account for your past vitriol toward players, staff and members of this forum. You were all too keen on ripping into members here a month ago, even force feeding your brand of crow onto them. Remember, Mr. Winning Team? And now you wanna whine about being "attacked" when someone uses your own words against you?

Too funny.

Mod, my only request is when you decide to stir the pot out of nowhere, or seek revenge for weeks old post, at least be correct with your claims/attacks. Thank you.

[Yoop]

Yet another case of yoop arguing something no one is arguing against...

But folks continue to reply to those arguments instead of letting them die an ignored death.

this whole forum took a very tentative position concerning Love a little over a month ago, so funny to hear everyone defend that position now

and here you are again hoping to shut me up, only a fool would fail to realize that differing opinions is what keeps forums going, minus that and forums whither and die.

happy holidays to you sir.

[Labrev]

DrJ's posts are just spicy. Disrespectful? meh, I wouldn't say that. People just take his posts the wrong way because they don't get him. I do though.

My opinions tend to be closer to that of YoHo's than his, but these kinds of disagreements invite convo. That's good IMO, we want that.

[Crazylegs Starks]

...
But writing off Love, or giving up on him, of this…I am innocent. If anything I consistently blamed the trash around him and said that any qb would look bad with what he was dealing with.

For what it's worth, this is how I remember your posts, too. I was a bit perplexed by APB's post, to be honest.

[Raptorman]

So why did Favre and Rodgers only win the Super Bowl when they had a top Defense? Why did Starr only win when he had a top defense? Show me one time a 32-ranked team in defense won the Super Bowl. How may times did Brady win a Super Bowl without a top defense? Hint: Zero. Montana? Zero. You name any QB that has won multiple Super Bowls and they had a top defense with them. Except one. Eli Manning. Now, if what you say is true, that would make Eli the best QB ever. Because he didn't need a top Defense to win 2 Super Bowls.

I am trying to follow you here. So did you think Brady was good? Or were his abilities vastly overrated because of Belichick and his good defenses? It seems thats what your saying.

You were basically saying that about Purdy because the niners have a good defense. I used examples of Favre having a good defense and winning, thinking that it was commonly acceptable that he was good. It basically sounds like you think every QB is crap thats ever had a good defense behind them.

BTW. Good offense and Good defense affect the other both ways. Good offenses can make defenses better. Time of possession for instance, keeps defenses fresh and not worn down. If offenses get good leads it can make the opposition offense one dimensional, thereby making it easier for defenses to Tee off.

Since you are one of the few that want to talk reasonably, I'll answer you. Brady wasn't as good as people think he was. Between him and Rodgers, given the same team offense and defense, I'd take Rodgers over Brady, every time. I'm not saying Brady wasn't good, just like I never said any QB wasn't good. But if the team wins depends on the QB then you have to ask the questions I asked. And no one does. Because they think that the QB drives the team to Victory. And he has a say in it, but if you look at those two QBs I posted, they aren't two different QBs. It's the same QB with a different head coach. And, one that brought a defense to the team. One thing people never do is look at the defense when QB's win. Brady had the advantage because he played most of his games with a defense that only gave up 19 ppg. Twice as many games in that range as any other QB during that time. So when you play 50% of your game where the defense holds the other team to 19 points or less it's a lot easier to win.

The good QBs can be found when you look at their records when the defense gives up more than 30 ppg. Brady is one of the good ones, and so are Rodgers and Favre. But if Brady had been on the Lions, he wouldn't have made it 4 years in the league. Look at the QB records and how many games they played by how many ppg the defense gave up. When you do that, You will see every QB that won multiple SB's, except one, did it with good defenses. And even Eli's defense stepped it up in the playoffs.

Someone brought up Terry Bradshaw in another forum. 2 years of sucking, 8 years of good wins with 4 Super Bowls, then 3 years of suck before he retired. Funny how those 8 years correspond to top defenses. After all, for 8 years Bradshaw was able to "elevate" the team's defense to that level. But for 5 years, for some reason, he sucked at it.

And the myth that a good offense makes the defense better? How exactly. Oh I know, Time of Possession. Sorry, not buying it. Look at last week alone. The teams that won the time of Possession went 4-11, the week before it wasn't much better. So, if keeping the ball out of the other team's hands leads to victory, I'm not seeing it. At least not in the last two weeks. However, every team that was held to under 19 points lost, Except those teams that held each other to under 19. One lost and one won.

And making another team's offense one-dimensional only works if your defense can stop that one-dimensional offense.

[Yoop]

football is a situational game, doesn't matter if a defense gives up a average of 17 points a game, if they can't stop the other team from scoring in the last drive or last minutes of games, they lose, go look at SB winners and thats what you will see..

like everything, some stats pertain more to regular season then PO's, imho I believe this is such a case

Brady, like Favre, like Montana, like Young, others where masters of the short WCO, sure they could make and throw, long or short, but up tempo, mis direction, was there wheel house, again comparing QB's is futile, just to many variables to do so, to much dependence upon supporting cast.

[go pak go]

I don't see the need to try and diminish what Tom Brady has done in his playoff career. He is absolutely incredible.

Tom has played 46 playoff games.

He averages 277 yards per game and 1.8 TDs per game. Tom has 22 playoff interceptions (.5 per game)

To contrast, Aaron Rodgers has played 22 playoff games.

Aaron averages 268 yards per game and 2 TDs per game. Aaron has 13 playoff interceptions (.6 per game)

From a stats persepctive, Brady and Aaron are pretty comparable. Yes the surrounding team is a huge reason why Brady has 7 and Rodgers has 1. But I don't see the need to try and diminish Brady's actual play which is part with the other NFL QB elites.

[Crazylegs Starks]

I don't think it diminishes Brady to point out that he played with an abnormal amount of good defenses, it just provides a clue as to why he won so much more than the other top quarterbacks of his era. Rodgers' and Peyton Manning's defenses were usually lackluster by comparison.

[MY_TAKE]

When you do that, You will see every QB that won multiple SB's, except one, did it with good defenses. And even Eli's defense stepped it up in the playoffs

I am not sure anyone would disagree with that or the premise your getting at. Your ultimatley saying, Good defense will help you win and that can include superbowls if your fortunate enough to play in one. I am not going to debate whether O or D is more important.

Getting back to my original debate with you was dismissing Brock Purdy's abilities. You sort of made it sound like just about anyone could do what he is doing because of the niners defense. Wins/losses thats true, but he does things well other QB's don't do well. Thats all. I don't think he is the greatest. But to completely dismiss his abilities (maybe you didnt completely) I disagreed with.

My best guess is if you put Purdy on the Jets, who have mostly had a descent defense this year, they would be, as a team, way better. We all know the crap quarterbacking they generally have dealt with this year. Or switch it around. Put Zach Wison on the Niners or any of their crap QBs and the Niners are NOT the niners we know right now.

This is just my opinion though. And finally

Purdys best abilities are
1. He throws it to the right guy most of the time. He knows where the ball needs to go.

2. He throws with great anticipation. (Im not the only one that see's this.) Other QB professional critics tend to agree with this.

3. He appears reasonably accurate.

[Raptorman]

I swear to God, reading comprehension has gone down the toilet. Explaining why one QB won more than another of the same skill set or better skill set isn't diminishing that QBs play.

But please, someone make the argument that Brady would have one of all those Super Bowls in Detroit. I'm dying to hear it. I mean, he's so effing good.

I'll say it once more. Compare the wins/losses of the top QBs when their defense gives up more than 30 ppg.

[MY_TAKE]

I don't think it diminishes Brady to point out that he played with an abnormal amount of good defenses, it just provides a clue as to why he won so much more than the other top quarterbacks of his era. Rodgers' and Peyton Manning's defenses were usually lackluster by comparison.

Exactly

[MY_TAKE]

I'll say it once more. Compare the wins/losses of the top QBs when their defense gives up more than 30 ppg.

That goes without saying. It doesn't diminish their abilities though. It just matters more to team success.

You tried to use this as, thats how you Find a good QB, but thats not true. Wins/losses but not abilities

[Pckfn23]

I'll say it once more. Compare the wins/losses of the top QBs when their defense gives up more than 30 ppg.

Who should we compare the top QBs to? Giving up 30 points a game is more than 1 score above the average NFL offensive output. Of course any team or QB is going to struggle to win when up against that. So, what do you want to compare? We can take Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc... against which QBs?

[go pak go]

I swear to God, reading comprehension has gone down the toilet. Explaining why one QB won more than another of the same skill set or better skill set isn't diminishing that QBs play.

But please, someone make the argument that Brady would have one of all those Super Bowls in Detroit. I'm dying to hear it. I mean, he's so effing good.

I'll say it once more. Compare the wins/losses of the top QBs when their defense gives up more than 30 ppg.

You are trying to convey that Aaron Rodgers is a better QB from a pure playing standpoint than Tom Brady.

My reponse is saying when you actually look at the QB production, especially when it matters in the postseason, Brady has just as good, if not better, production numbers in the major passing categories over Aaron Rodgers which you stated gives you the better chance to win.

So when the QB production is effectively even (two slight leans to Brady and one slight lean to Rodgers in major categories) what makes Rodgers > than Brady?

You are arguing the wins favor Brady because of the surrounding units (defense and STs). Fair. But the production is the same from a pure pass offensive standpoint and that is pretty impressive when considering, according to your theory, Rodgers had to produce more to keep pace with the opposing offense due to his lackluster defense.

You are really trying to rely on the QB record when the opponent scores 30+ per game. My best guess is all QBs have a very poor record when this is the case. (my best guess is Manning and Brees have the best record when this is the case)

As for me, I have always considered the top tier of NFL history to be Brady, Manning and Rodgers. The next tier is Brees, Elway, Marino and Favre. Montana and Young should also be there except they just don't have the longevity.

[Yoop]

since the live ball era offense has had a advantage over defense, sure we'll see a few very good defenses each season, but not to the point of having any sort of advantage over a potent offense. this is a few years old, but seems even more relevant today, I tried to copy and post several paragraphs, no luck, but the link worked for me, good info for those that have interest, defense sucks donkey D

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/10/17 ... ball-style


Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Close your eyes, defensive coaches and players...

Since the 1970 merger, this year has through five weeks the…
– highest Comp Pct (65.0%)
– most Pass TD (275)
– highest TD Pct (4.8%)
– highest TD-Int ratio (1.95)
– highest pass attempts per team per game (36.6)

[Pckfn23]

Top 35 playoff QBs since 1990 by Passer Rating, minimum 100 attempts:

image.png (145.63 KiB) Viewed 549 times