Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2021

[BF004]

Panthers have promoted Kamal Martin from the practice squad.

Am I supposed to believe he is worse than Oren Burks?

Am I supposed to believe he was better?

Have you seen burks play in games?

I have been pleasantly surprised with Burks this year.

Now the bar was impossibly low, but he hasn’t been a liability, all you can ask for for some filling in for an injury getting all of maybe 20 snaps a game.

[go pak go]

Panthers have promoted Kamal Martin from the practice squad.

Am I supposed to believe he is worse than Oren Burks?

Am I supposed to believe he was better?

Have you seen burks play in games?

I haven't watched exclusively but with the limited snaps he has gotten pressure on the QB, gets to the sideline quickly and is at least appearing to be in the right spot.

What I have noticed is he is not finishing the play. Last week he missed a tackle which he can't do. It was a very reminiscent play of watching the Packers defense before 2021 (we have actually been really good at tackling this year)

But Martin did the same thing last year. The rare times he "chose" the right hole to be in, he never wrapped up and ended up not making the play anyway. So I am happy that Burks is there instead of Martin and I also hope Burks take that step to be #3 over Summers; which I believe he was until that missed tackle which was bad. Your ILB has to make that tackle.

Unless there is something I missing.

We seem to be on the opposite ends on some player evaluation. I was pissed at Stokes the 1st three quarters for giving up 10 completions, let JuJu beat him for a potential big play over the top and missing a tackle (and my criticism was too strong because he especially learned from those in the 4th quarter) and you are ready to cut Burks for really only one gaf I have seen can be pinned on him. The plays vs SF I originally thought were on Burks ended up not being on Burks.

[Yoop]

The plays vs SF I originally thought were on Burks ended up not being on Burks.

no, no, say it aint so, you where wrong? I don't believe it

actually I think once we dislike a player, we always tend to doubt there ability unless they do something very special to change our minds, Burks just hasn't done anything special enough for us to cut him any slack, decent ST player, but below average on defense, he has the physical skills, to bad the mental part hasn't arrived.

[go pak go]

The plays vs SF I originally thought were on Burks ended up not being on Burks.

no, no, say it aint so, you where wrong? I don't believe it

actually I think once we dislike a player, we always tend to doubt there ability unless they do something very special to change our minds, Burks just hasn't done anything special enough for us to cut him any slack, decent ST player, but below average on defense, he has the physical skills, to bad the mental part hasn't arrived.

Yoop if there is one thing I hope I have left as a reputation here is that I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I have always believed in leaving ego's at doors and it actually takes a much stronger and respectful person to listen and accept other well thought out points and counter points than to double down in one's own echo chamber.

And yes. I firmly believe most people view players with inherent biases. The first 3 years Burks wasn't playable. At least this 4th year he is playable and even almost showing "potential" but then he rips your soul out once you start getting that hope. He is what he is at this point. Likely will get tossed around at various camps next year and out of the league by 2023.

[Drj820]

Alright so it is more up for debate than I assumed it would be. I thought when two players often filled the wrong gap, the benefit of the doubt should go to the rookie. I also thought Kamal was faster and laid the wood more often. My opinion stands that Kamal had more potential and was a better linebacker than a guy like Oren Burks, but I see that may not be a universal opinion now, like I thought it was.

For "reasons why I think Kamal was better and has far more potential than Oren Burks" see these kinds of stats: (watch me use PFF grades when they confirm my point ) Last year with an average grade of 73.3 Kamal was the highest graded Packer ILB and second highest graded rookie ILB (read: potential). Only rookie to have a grade over 60 in run defense, blitzing, and coverage.

Martin also had more tackles for loss than I think Oren has had in his entire career, that would be 3 tackles for loss, a sack, and a qb hit.

I see potential in these highlights, and good ILB play.

[Yoop]

The plays vs SF I originally thought were on Burks ended up not being on Burks.

no, no, say it aint so, you where wrong? I don't believe it

actually I think once we dislike a player, we always tend to doubt there ability unless they do something very special to change our minds, Burks just hasn't done anything special enough for us to cut him any slack, decent ST player, but below average on defense, he has the physical skills, to bad the mental part hasn't arrived.

Yoop if there is one thing I hope I have left as a reputation here is that I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I have always believed in leaving ego's at doors and it actually takes a much stronger and respectful person to listen and accept other well thought out points and counter points than to double down in one's own echo chamber.

And yes. I firmly believe most people view players with inherent biases. The first 3 years Burks wasn't playable. At least this 4th year he is playable and even almost showing "potential" but then he rips your soul out once you start getting that hope. He is what he is at this point. Likely will get tossed around at various camps next year and out of the league by 2023.

OMG, get all bent out of shape why don't ya, to spell this out, we all make mistakes evaluating plays, give credit to the wrong players at times while blaming someone else, I didn't say what I did to put you down, sorry you took it that way.

the team has been patient with Burks, hoping with time he'd pick up on the defensive schemes, he looks better then he has in the past, but not much, if not for his contributions on ST's I think Burks would be a Jacksonville Jaguar now.

[NCF]

My opinion stands that Kamal had more potential and was a better linebacker than a guy like Oren Burks, but I see that may not be a universal opinion now, like I thought it was.

Quite the opposite. Oren Burks is the highest potential ILB we have had, possibly ever. He is the super athlete. Perfect size. Just hasn't hit between the ears and isn't overly physical or a great finisher... you know, all those great things to be at ILB. Many, including me, were drawn to Martin for his physicality and reckless abandon. Turns out he was a bit too reckless, though.

[Drj820]

My opinion stands that Kamal had more potential and was a better linebacker than a guy like Oren Burks, but I see that may not be a universal opinion now, like I thought it was.

Quite the opposite. Oren Burks is the highest potential ILB we have had, possibly ever. He is the super athlete. Perfect size. Just hasn't hit between the ears and isn't overly physical or a great finisher... you know, all those great things to be at ILB. Many, including me, were drawn to Martin for his physicality and reckless abandon. Turns out he was a bit too reckless, though.

I have given up on waiting for "potential" for a player by year 4.

I also dont think he was too reckless for a rookie. It was nice to finally see some aggressive play. If we let Burks be a bum for 3 years, while waiting on his potential to come around, I believe Kamal deserved more than one season and a camp.

Unless of course he was disgruntled that Barnes and Campbell were slotted to be starters and he was going to be a backup...and that, in my opinion, must be why he got the boot a full day before a decision even had to made on him. I think it was character over ability potentially. Because I saw the potential for ability, and have no problem defending that. I believe even in 2021, the defense would be better off if the snaps that had gone to burks so far, were going to Kamal. Sorry to repeat myself.

[Yoop]

My opinion stands that Kamal had more potential and was a better linebacker than a guy like Oren Burks, but I see that may not be a universal opinion now, like I thought it was.

Quite the opposite. Oren Burks is the highest potential ILB we have had, possibly ever. He is the super athlete. Perfect size. Just hasn't hit between the ears and isn't overly physical or a great finisher... you know, all those great things to be at ILB. Many, including me, were drawn to Martin for his physicality and reckless abandon. Turns out he was a bit too reckless, though.

I have given up on waiting for "potential" for a player by year 4.

I also dont think he was too reckless for a rookie. It was nice to finally see some aggressive play. If we let Burks be a bum for 3 years, while waiting on his potential to come around, I believe Kamal deserved more than one season and a camp.

Unless of course he was disgruntled that Barnes and Campbell were slotted to be starters and he was going to be a backup...and that, in my opinion, must be why he got the boot a full day before a decision even had to made on him. I think it was character over ability potentially. Because I saw the potential for ability, and have no problem defending that. I believe even in 2021, the defense would be better off if the snaps that had gone to burks so far, were going to Kamal. Sorry to repeat myself.

hard to argue with anything here, Burks appears dumber then a box of rocks, shows almost zero instincts for the position, and more over then not will take himself right out of the play because of his inability to read the flow of the run, his ST's play might get him resigned for vet minimum, I think we kept him over Martin partially for that, and agree that a personal issue may have led to Martins departure.

[go pak go]

What's weird about all of it is Burks is not dumb. At all.

He was drafted because he of his athleticism, him playing every level of the defense, and being a respected team captain from the smartest school in the SEC.

Burks was drafted in the era of, "Packers will only draft you if you are from the west coast/Pac 12, Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, etc.

[Drj820]

What's weird about all of it is Burks is not dumb. At all.

He was drafted because he of his athleticism, him playing every level of the defense, and being a respected team captain from the smartest school in the SEC.

Burks was drafted in the era of, "Packers will only draft you if you are from the west coast/Pac 12, Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, etc.

Yeah I dont think he is dumb at all in terms of mental intellect or ability. However, there are geniuses who are meticulous and need some time to articulate information and then react to it. Then, there are geniuses that process what they see in an instant and can go react. Burks may just be the former. I do not think he is dumb on human terms, I think he plays and reacts slow.

[NCF]

The Packers seem to have a better plan for him this year. Play him in space more and take some of the decision making away and let him use his athletic ability. I won't say he has been good, but at least they are getting something from him from scrimmage this season.

[Yoop]

I read all the pre draft hype, was glad we where spending a high pick at the position, and Burks had a lot of praise as a Vanderbilt stand out, I remember all this good stuff, but for whatever reason he did not become Zach Cunningham, and this is year 4, am I to believe that all of a sudden Burks will emerge? well, I need to see it happen, so far he still displays to much of the negatives from this list and very few of the positives

trengths
A leader on the field
Football IQ
Game Intelligence
Quickness
Athleticism
Great Instincts
Explosive
Physical
Aggressive
Extremely Versatile
Great Length
Strong on the run sideline to sideline
Weaknesses
Needs to improve on tackling and follow through
Has a tendency to get neutralized in the hole
Needs more consistency with tackling
Needs to become more effective in slipping blocks
NFL Comparison: Zach Cunningham

https://lastwordonsports.com/collegefoo ... t-profile/

[NCF]

am I to believe that all of a sudden Burks will emerge?

No, I don't think so. But, I do think he has a few, stand-out strengths, and the current defensive staff is finally playing him to a few of those advantages. Like we have begged for in the past, put your players in positions to succeed. Given that limited ask, there is no reason he can't play a role well.

[lupedafiasco]

What's weird about all of it is Burks is not dumb. At all.

He was drafted because he of his athleticism, him playing every level of the defense, and being a respected team captain from the smartest school in the SEC.

Burks was drafted in the era of, "Packers will only draft you if you are from the west coast/Pac 12, Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, etc.

Just because you are smart in some aspect doesnt mean you are smart in others. You have your normal IQ and you have your football IQ. Burks just doesnt seem to have the instincts. Might be an analytical thinker. Who knows why but he just doesnt make the plays as quickly as they need to be made.

It is year 4 though. I am glad theyre getting some use from him somewhere outside STs but the time to think hes going to get better than what he is currently is probably over. If someone hasnt figured out a game 4 years into playing it, it might be time to take up checkers.

[paco]

Urban Meyer

Might be a miracle if he coaches that team a full season.

[go pak go]

Urban Meyer

Might be a miracle if he coaches that team a full season.

Just dumb isn't it? Like be smarter than that.

[Captain_Ben]

Urban Meyer

Might be a miracle if he coaches that team a full season.

Just dumb isn't it? Like be smarter than that.

Who knows, maybe it'll serve as a big turning point for that team?? Just trying to see the positive here in this situation.

[APB]

Urban Meyer

Might be a miracle if he coaches that team a full season.

Meyer strikes me as a guy who thinks he is still the living god on campus. I honestly don't think he's grasped the concept that he's now the face of a team with national media implications.

It's either arrogance or ignorance. Likely both.

[texas]

I think it's funny how the Urban Meyer experiment is going exactly how so many people expected it would go. It seems like in order to be a successful college -> professional coach, you need to be good in college, but not too good. Except for Pete Carroll.