General Packer News 2021

[Cdragon]

And the way I am thinking of it, (I mean I'm still poor now so but you will know what I mean....)

If I have a great burger, I won't get all twisted on if the chef charged me $5 or $6 because the burger was really good and the cost difference is minor.

JK was a waste of $6 because it was a sh*tty burger.
Bojo is $6 well spent because it's a good burger. Even if there is supposedly another restaruant in town (though unknown) that serves the same delicious for burger for $5.

If you have the great burger already, sure. But what if you don't know if it will be great or not. That's the issue with spending a 5th on a punter, you don't know if they will be good and you have just as good of odds with a free agent.

Swapping a 6th for a 7th for Bojo is not a bad deal at all. Scott in the 5th was a bad deal mostly because he was bad, but it was bad value too. If he was good, no one would really care about the bad value. It was just an unnecessary amount to spend though.

For the most part I can agree with that. And I think you and I are of the same mind in the end. I get where you're coming from for sure.

I too agree that a 5th was too early (unless he turned out top 3 punter), but the overall value of 5th and especially 6th and 7th rounders are pretty low that in the end if I get a good player I won't be complaining about draft capital to get it. I'm just happy we got Bojo and it seems we may finally have a punter.

It is a lot easier to spit out a free burger and try something else. Once you pay for a burger, it becomes something you gave value for. So you are reluctant to give up on perceived value. You start saying, "Well, it's okay." instead of, 'this sucks." It gets tougher to spit out the more you paid for it.

[go pak go]

If you have the great burger already, sure. But what if you don't know if it will be great or not. That's the issue with spending a 5th on a punter, you don't know if they will be good and you have just as good of odds with a free agent.

Swapping a 6th for a 7th for Bojo is not a bad deal at all. Scott in the 5th was a bad deal mostly because he was bad, but it was bad value too. If he was good, no one would really care about the bad value. It was just an unnecessary amount to spend though.

For the most part I can agree with that. And I think you and I are of the same mind in the end. I get where you're coming from for sure.

I too agree that a 5th was too early (unless he turned out top 3 punter), but the overall value of 5th and especially 6th and 7th rounders are pretty low that in the end if I get a good player I won't be complaining about draft capital to get it. I'm just happy we got Bojo and it seems we may finally have a punter.

It is a lot easier to spit out a free burger and try something else. Once you pay for a burger, it becomes something you gave value for. So you are reluctant to give up on perceived value. You start saying, "Well, it's okay." instead of, 'this sucks." It gets tougher to spit out the more you paid for it.

Ah the burger analogies.

There is a cost to everything. Even if you only pay for the week's salary of the punter, you still have the cost of having a sh*tty punter while you were figuring out he was a sh*tty punter.

So for burger analogy, let's say you only have limited calories because you are on a fixed diet. Are you gonna waste all your bites trying to decide if that burger is good? Or do you want you limited bites to be a good burger regardless?

Again. My biggest thing is I don't care how we got there. The fact is we have probably the best punter in my lifetime. So I am not complaining at all.

[Yoop]

For the most part I can agree with that. And I think you and I are of the same mind in the end. I get where you're coming from for sure.

I too agree that a 5th was too early (unless he turned out top 3 punter), but the overall value of 5th and especially 6th and 7th rounders are pretty low that in the end if I get a good player I won't be complaining about draft capital to get it. I'm just happy we got Bojo and it seems we may finally have a punter.

It is a lot easier to spit out a free burger and try something else. Once you pay for a burger, it becomes something you gave value for. So you are reluctant to give up on perceived value. You start saying, "Well, it's okay." instead of, 'this sucks." It gets tougher to spit out the more you paid for it.

Ah the burger analogies.

There is a cost to everything. Even if you only pay for the week's salary of the punter, you still have the cost of having a sh*tty punter while you were figuring out he was a sh*tty punter.

So for burger analogy, let's say you only have limited calories because you are on a fixed diet. Are you gonna waste all your bites trying to decide if that burger is good? Or do you want you limited bites to be a good burger regardless?

Again. My biggest thing is I don't care how we got there. The fact is we have probably the best punter in my lifetime. So I am not complaining at all.

if where going to buy Punters using the hamburger analogy, lets have Wimpy the wheeler dealer do the transaction, " Wimpy" I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a HAMBURGER today, Wimpy didn't work on Tuesdays

[Drj820]

Baja Blaster is showing us how bad 5th round pick JK Scott really was.

To me, you can use a 5th on a punter if you want...you just better not miss. Like it has to be over 90% chance that the guy will be awesome. Scott never had that sort of guarantee as he was a smaller guy who punted in warm weather. We had no idea how the small guy would punt in the cold, so it was an awful pick. When you do waste a 5th on a bad punter it becomes a stain on your resume. Gutey has a few stains, most GMs have a few..but using a 5th on a bad punter certainly counts as a stain.

[Yoop]

Baja Blaster is showing us how bad 5th round pick JK Scott really was.

To me, you can use a 5th on a punter if you want...you just better not miss. Like it has to be over 90% chance that the guy will be awesome. Scott never had that sort of guarantee as he was a smaller guy who punted in warm weather. We had no idea how the small guy would punt in the cold, so it was an awful pick. When you do waste a 5th on a bad punter it becomes a stain on your resume. Gutey has a few stains, most GMs have a few..but using a 5th on a bad punter certainly counts as a stain.

so missing on a 5th rounde punter is worse then missing on the `thousands of other players GM's use 5th round picks on?

I disagree J, GM's don't think like fans do, if a GM likes a punter they wont let them get to UDFA, they will take them if they think another GM will beat them to the guy, same with a kicker, sure it's possible to miss, but in round 5 about 80% of the picks are misses anyway.

we just had a convo topic of both Jacks and Jaylon Smith being taken high round two when the GM's that took them new they would not play for a season, or if they would ever be as good again, my point is that when a GM is enamored with a player the round they take them is less of a concern, talent is talent in there eyes, they have to have a glass half full mentality, or they wouldn't draft anyone.

[go pak go]

Baja Blaster is showing us how bad 5th round pick JK Scott really was.

To me, you can use a 5th on a punter if you want...you just better not miss. Like it has to be over 90% chance that the guy will be awesome. Scott never had that sort of guarantee as he was a smaller guy who punted in warm weather. We had no idea how the small guy would punt in the cold, so it was an awful pick. When you do waste a 5th on a bad punter it becomes a stain on your resume. Gutey has a few stains, most GMs have a few..but using a 5th on a bad punter certainly counts as a stain.

so missing on a 5th rounde punter is worse then missing on the `thousands of other players GM's use 5th round picks on?

I disagree J, GM's don't think like fans do, if a GM likes a punter they wont let them get to UDFA, they will take them if they think another GM will beat them to the guy, same with a kicker, sure it's possible to miss, but in round 5 about 80% of the picks are misses anyway.

we just had a convo topic of both Jacks and Jaylon Smith being taken high round two when the GM's that took them new they would not play for a season, or if they would ever be as good again, my point is that when a GM is enamored with a player the round they take them is less of a concern, talent is talent in there eyes, they have to have a glass half full mentality, or they wouldn't draft anyone.

Yoop you are getting a lot of love from people who disagree with you often.

At the end of the day, a miss on a 5th is a miss on a 5th.

[Pckfn23]

Missing on a 5th round punter is worse because you have about as good a chance of finding a good punter as an UDFA as you do with drafting one. That is why it is worse.

There are no guarantees that any player will be good and punter is no exception so why draft one outside of the 7th round?

[lupedafiasco]

The crazy thing to me is the people complaining about drafting a punter at all when we traded a draft pick for our current punter. So we are ok with trading a pick for a punter but we arent ok using a pick for a punter? Its basically the same thing.

[Pckfn23]

The equivalent value of the trade was a 7th round pick.

The punter traded for was a known commodity. Punting is not scheme dependent.

So no, it is not basically the same thing.

[Drj820]

The crazy thing to me is the people complaining about drafting a punter at all when we traded a draft pick for our current punter. So we are ok with trading a pick for a punter but we arent ok using a pick for a punter? Its basically the same thing.

Im not against drafting a punter, i just think you need to be more sure that he is going to be great than we were with Scott.

That said, to your point, it is different to trade than to draft because when you trade you absolutely are more sure of what you are getting. You have game film of punts at the NFL level that you are offering loot for. This is less risk than using a draft pick for a lesser known commodity.

[Yoop]

Baja Blaster is showing us how bad 5th round pick JK Scott really was.

To me, you can use a 5th on a punter if you want...you just better not miss. Like it has to be over 90% chance that the guy will be awesome. Scott never had that sort of guarantee as he was a smaller guy who punted in warm weather. We had no idea how the small guy would punt in the cold, so it was an awful pick. When you do waste a 5th on a bad punter it becomes a stain on your resume. Gutey has a few stains, most GMs have a few..but using a 5th on a bad punter certainly counts as a stain.

so missing on a 5th rounde punter is worse then missing on the `thousands of other players GM's use 5th round picks on?

I disagree J, GM's don't think like fans do, if a GM likes a punter they wont let them get to UDFA, they will take them if they think another GM will beat them to the guy, same with a kicker, sure it's possible to miss, but in round 5 about 80% of the picks are misses anyway.

we just had a convo topic of both Jacks and Jaylon Smith being taken high round two when the GM's that took them new they would not play for a season, or if they would ever be as good again, my point is that when a GM is enamored with a player the round they take them is less of a concern, talent is talent in there eyes, they have to have a glass half full mentality, or they wouldn't draft anyone.

Yoop you are getting a lot of love from people who disagree with you often.

At the end of the day, a miss on a 5th is a miss on a 5th.

I owe it all to mountain fresh spring water

[YoHoChecko]

The crazy thing to me is the number of opinions involved in the board's Treatise on the Value of Punters

[Pckfn23]

J.K. Scott was supposed to be pretty "can't" miss.

[Yoop]

The crazy thing to me is the people complaining about drafting a punter at all when we traded a draft pick for our current punter. So we are ok with trading a pick for a punter but we arent ok using a pick for a punter? Its basically the same thing.

Im not against drafting a punter, i just think you need to be more sure that he is going to be great than we were with Scott.

That said, to your point, it is different to trade than to draft because when you trade you absolutely are more sure of what you are getting. You have game film of punts at the NFL level that you are offering loot for. This is less risk than using a draft pick for a lesser known commodity.

film shlilm, GM's have all the film they can watch of draftable punters in each draft class, if they like a guy they'll use a draft pick to get them, this idea that drafting a punter or kicker is a no no is a fan thing, if you think a GM losses sleep over missing on a later round draft pick I think your acting a bit naive, since most are misses anyway.

if people would actually look at the production a team gets from a good punter or kicker we wouldn't be having these conversations, GM's dont frown upon each other cause they missed on a 5th round punter pick, come on

[TheSkeptic]

Aaron Jones was drafted in the 5th round.

[Drj820]

Aaron Jones was drafted in the 5th round.

if 5th rounders are so worthless I wish we would have just donated one to the pats and acquired Gilmore for the year

[BF004]

We'll see though, if the Panthers give him like a 2 year 30 million extension, I'm glad we' were out (other than the scenario where we lose the super bowl with out him and win it with him).

[Yoop]

Aaron Jones was drafted in the 5th round.

true we've had some good hits in the 5th round, but mostly it's been duds, in the last 6 drafts we have 4 duds and one great hit and one thats still a ? mark.

call me old school, but if I like a player, any position, then I'll spend a pick on them, obviously the less I have to spend the better, but I wouldn't bat a eye to take a punter or kicker in almost any round if I was convinced that he wouldn't last till my next pick.

Al Davis used a 1st on Ray Guy and I think his kid did the same for Janikowski years later and both won a lot of games for the Raiders, and if any opposing GM laughed at them there the ones who had egg on there face.

[salmar80]

Gutey just trolling.

I mean, I understand why we didn't go for Gilmore, and do like addressing depth at CB with a cheap vet. But can't help the feeling like when you want a PS5 for Christmas, and your parents get you a used PS4.

[Yoop]

Aaron Jones was drafted in the 5th round.

if 5th rounders are so worthless I wish we would have just donated one to the pats and acquired Gilmore for the year

I doubt it was that simple