Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 07:58
Packers should not (could not) trade for DJ Moore from Carolina.
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Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
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Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:06
Packers should never give Rodgers a good receiver.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:11
I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:15
And yet:salmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
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Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:26
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:44
Rodgers for DJ Moore and every first round pick they have for the next decade
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:50
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 08:56
Yeah, AR has played poorly. And LaFleur needs to get his thinking cap on. The innovation he showed the first 2 seasons has worn off.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:15And yet:image.pngsalmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
But I think the "let's give AR zero good WRs and he'll flourish" -theory is looking worse week by week. What folks forget, not having winning WRs leads to opponents getting to stack the box vs our supposed running game strength. We won't have 4+ yard average if AR doesn't check to pass vs loaded boxes. And if we end up in 3rd and long, when we just have to pass, the chances are low.
There was a previous goal line play where Cobb had the slowest cut in human history and had no chance at doing what the play called for. He can win when low on priority list for D. Not often enough.
Amari is neutral to evil chaos as returner, never doing anything plus, always risking catastrophe. Also worthless as WR.
Watson is slumming in the doghouse despite being the only WR with deep speed. He's so untrusted deep, that we don't even try him as a MVS -type go-route-pro. Instead AR is forcing deep throws to marginal athletic talents.
Hammy Watkins looks like a guy giving a decently motivated shot at a new job, but isn't really inspired for full rejuvenation effort. Basically ready for retirement.
Doubs is super promising, but high-risk at this point.
Lazard is a great run-blocking possession WR2 or WR3, but he scares no opponent. As WR1, opposing DCs can go "niiiice, no safety help needed"...
---
Look, we don't need one All-Pro snap hog like Adams, but we DO need a WR or three who can win their 1-1s when put in a favorable situation.
It is remotely possible Watson and Doubs hit rookie magic mushroom, instead of rookie wall. If that lottery ticket fails, this WR group simply sucks.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:18
we seem deceptive and calculated with scripted plays in first half, then after half time adjustments we look like a different offense.salmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:56Yeah, AR has played poorly. And LaFleur needs to get his thinking cap on. The innovation he showed the first 2 seasons has worn off.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:15And yet:image.pngsalmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
But I think the "let's give AR zero good WRs and he'll flourish" -theory is looking worse week by week. What folks forget, not having winning WRs leads to opponents getting to stack the box vs our supposed running game strength. We won't have 4+ yard average if AR doesn't check to pass vs loaded boxes. And if we end up in 3rd and long, when we just have to pass, the chances are low.
There was a previous goal line play where Cobb had the slowest cut in human history and had no chance at doing what the play called for. He can win when low on priority list for D. Not often enough.
Amari is neutral to evil chaos as returner, never doing anything plus, always risking catastrophe. Also worthless as WR.
Watson is slumming in the doghouse despite being the only WR with deep speed. He's so untrusted deep, that we don't even try him as a MVS -type go-route-pro. Instead AR is forcing deep throws to marginal athletic talents.
Hammy Watkins looks like a guy giving a decently motivated shot at a new job, but isn't really inspired for full rejuvenation effort. Basically ready for retirement.
Doubs is super promising, but high-risk at this point.
Lazard is a great run-blocking possession WR2 or WR3, but he scares no opponent. As WR1, opposing DCs can go "niiiice, no safety help needed"...
---
Look, we don't need one All-Pro snap hog like Adams, but we DO need a WR or three who can win their 1-1s when put in a favorable situation.
It is remotely possible Watson and Doubs hit rookie magic mushroom, instead of rookie wall. If that lottery ticket fails, this WR group simply sucks.
agree we have no receivers that scare a defense, specially so when Rodgers is so inaccurate at times, as a result defenses are making it hard for us to run.
we obviously couldn't afford the money to keep Adams? but we should have picked up a healthier player then Watkins to attempt to replace some of his production.
players are pissed off, coaches don't seem to have answers, and Guty and Ball are counting dollars saved, these guys better figure out something quick, what good does it do to build a great defense, rebuild the ST's squad, have two of the best RB's in the league, if the offense can't sustain drives.
every season it seems one part of the team is incomplete, missing talent, or depleted because of injury, talk about snake bit.
we don't need no stinking receivers, everyone hates me
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:25
salmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:56Yeah, AR has played poorly. And LaFleur needs to get his thinking cap on. The innovation he showed the first 2 seasons has worn off.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:15And yet:image.pngsalmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
But I think the "let's give AR zero good WRs and he'll flourish" -theory is looking worse week by week. What folks forget, not having winning WRs leads to opponents getting to stack the box vs our supposed running game strength. We won't have 4+ yard average if AR doesn't check to pass vs loaded boxes. And if we end up in 3rd and long, when we just have to pass, the chances are low.
There was a previous goal line play where Cobb had the slowest cut in human history and had no chance at doing what the play called for. He can win when low on priority list for D. Not often enough.
Amari is neutral to evil chaos as returner, never doing anything plus, always risking catastrophe. Also worthless as WR.
Watson is slumming in the doghouse despite being the only WR with deep speed. He's so untrusted deep, that we don't even try him as a MVS -type go-route-pro. Instead AR is forcing deep throws to marginal athletic talents.
Hammy Watkins looks like a guy giving a decently motivated shot at a new job, but isn't really inspired for full rejuvenation effort. Basically ready for retirement.
Doubs is super promising, but high-risk at this point.
Lazard is a great run-blocking possession WR2 or WR3, but he scares no opponent. As WR1, opposing DCs can go "niiiice, no safety help needed"...
---
Look, we don't need one All-Pro snap hog like Adams, but we DO need a WR or three who can win their 1-1s when put in a favorable situation.
It is remotely possible Watson and Doubs hit rookie magic mushroom, instead of rookie wall. If that lottery ticket fails, this WR group simply sucks.
Well said Salmar. Amazing post.
Look, I’m not on Guteys case at the moment, as I think other people have had worse job performances…but fact is, not resigning Adams was a fine decision. I’m cool with it really. But to then replace Adams with two rookies and a guy who hasn’t stayed on the field in years was terrible. Just wait until Cobb misses 4 games with a hammy issue of his own. Cobb looks like he’s found the fountain of youth, but a few games off for him is inevitable, don’t worry, it’s coming.
The WR room is a problem because just like you said..it doesn’t scare anyone. Sure, Lafleur can work his a** off to scheme guys open every play…he gets paid to do that. But sometimes you just need guys who can make a play, who can take a top off a defense, who can demand a double team etc.
I completely agree the stacked boxes are coming and will be coming more and more due to lack of respect for the WR room.
Look at the chiefs, they let go of Tyreke Hill, but had Kelce on the roster and still brought in Juju and MVS. Point is, it was fine to let Adams go, but the replacements we brought in are just not NFL caliber…for a team with SB aspirations. They are fine for a team that wants to make wild card or compete for a top draft pick.
Good post.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:25
Not to mention the running lane up the middle for a guy like Dillon, who makes yards when there is 0 space between the C and G.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:15And yet:image.pngsalmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:28
Personally I think it is 90% schematic. Why do I say this? Since week 1 it has been a tale of 2 halves EVERY SINGLE GAME. 2nd Half Bears, 1st Half Bucs, 2nd Half Patriots, 1st Half Giants. We can be a really good offense, passing and rushing. I think the "give Rodgers zero good receivers" shtick is silly, but there are enough weapons to be a good offense and we can see that in spurts. We just are not using them effectively at times. This isn't a top half WR core, but between RB, TE, and WR it is enough to be good, borderline top 10. It's going to see it's bumps early on and we knew that, but forget. I don't think LaFleur is doing the offense any favors right now. We have shied away from scheming guys open like we did early in his tenure. Case in point the inorganic deep shots that honestly haven't even been remotely close the last 4 weeks.salmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:56Yeah, AR has played poorly. And LaFleur needs to get his thinking cap on. The innovation he showed the first 2 seasons has worn off.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:15And yet:image.pngsalmar80 wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 08:11I'll be very disappointed in Gutey if we don't trade for a WR. Or two. Dunno which ones, but we need a boost.
Can't have the opponent putting 8 in box, and still winning when AR checks to a throw versus favorable coverage.
Even a marginal upgrade over Hammy Watkins and Amari Poggers would do...
But I think the "let's give AR zero good WRs and he'll flourish" -theory is looking worse week by week. What folks forget, not having winning WRs leads to opponents getting to stack the box vs our supposed running game strength. We won't have 4+ yard average if AR doesn't check to pass vs loaded boxes. And if we end up in 3rd and long, when we just have to pass, the chances are low.
There was a previous goal line play where Cobb had the slowest cut in human history and had no chance at doing what the play called for. He can win when low on priority list for D. Not often enough.
Amari is neutral to evil chaos as returner, never doing anything plus, always risking catastrophe. Also worthless as WR.
Watson is slumming in the doghouse despite being the only WR with deep speed. He's so untrusted deep, that we don't even try him as a MVS -type go-route-pro. Instead AR is forcing deep throws to marginal athletic talents.
Hammy Watkins looks like a guy giving a decently motivated shot at a new job, but isn't really inspired for full rejuvenation effort. Basically ready for retirement.
Doubs is super promising, but high-risk at this point.
Lazard is a great run-blocking possession WR2 or WR3, but he scares no opponent. As WR1, opposing DCs can go "niiiice, no safety help needed"...
---
Look, we don't need one All-Pro snap hog like Adams, but we DO need a WR or three who can win their 1-1s when put in a favorable situation.
It is remotely possible Watson and Doubs hit rookie magic mushroom, instead of rookie wall. If that lottery ticket fails, this WR group simply sucks.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:47
To the extent that this is true, that's only because AR & MLF are not adjusting the game plan (well enough) for the changed circumstances, not because the model has not been tried and succeeded for many teams.
I mean goodness, our RB stable is akin to having Alvin Kamara and Derrick Henry in the backfield, and rather than doing the obvious thing and, you know, play to our strength, AR, MLF, and apparently many a Packer fan are like "welp, nothing we can do, not enough reeSEEvers!"
Do what the Saints did in the late stage of Brees's career: run the ball *and* throw to your stud RB. Or what MLF did when he had Derrick Henry. It's run to set up the pass.
The problem is that AR subscribes to the reverse theory (pass to set up the run) after years of McCarthy and having guys like Adams to throw to; they can't think outside the box of [haha Rodgers-to-Receiver go brrr].
MLF of all people should know better because he had an offense that revolved around Derrick Henry and now basically has that guy in Dillon, but I think he is too deferential to Rodgers and too seduced by the amazing pass plays Rodgers makes from time to time that he keeps relying on him to work some Godgers magic (much like McCarthy did in his downfall).
NYG was stacking the box and both RBs were still beating it.What folks forget, not having winning WRs leads to opponents getting to stack the box vs our supposed running game strength. We won't have 4+ yard average if AR doesn't check to pass vs loaded boxes. And if we end up in 3rd and long, when we just have to pass, the chances are low.
The beauty of our ground game is, you have Jones, who has great vision and quickness and will run well against most teams. And if Jones isn't running well on a given day, you have Dillon, who can create yards even when they're not there by virtue of how powerful the guy is *and* Jones has shown he can line up at receiver!
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 09:56
The other issue we have is that we tend to believe the best way to beat a stacked box is going over the top. Not the case. It can be, but we can't hit a deep pass to save our lives right now, so work on that, but take what we are doing well, rubs, picks, scheming guys open.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:09
what has worked in the first half, has been deception caused by motion, and running the ball, then defenses rescheme to stop that stuff, we've seen the stacked boundary sets blown up, we've seen defenders geared to stop jet sweeps, the reason we struggle to sustain drives for the last 30 minutes is because defenses take away everything that worked in the first 30 minutes, or we drop passes, Rodgers misses open receivers, part of me realizes that Rodgers was airing it out in hopes of forcing the defense to honor the whole field versus just the box, who knows, whatever Rodgers was wild throwing deep.
same ol, same ol, we don't need no stinking WR's, everyone I talk to agrees with me that we do, except a few people here in this forum
same ol, same ol, we don't need no stinking WR's, everyone I talk to agrees with me that we do, except a few people here in this forum
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:15
Funny how little Daniel Jones beat us with way, way worse WRs than we have on 1 ankle and our QB, supposedly one of the "best ever" at the position couldn't outplay him with better WRs, against a defense that wasn't much (if at all) better.
"WR help" is just a sorry excuse for the poor performances of Rodgers and MLF, both of whom are performing poorly precisely because neither of them can think outside the box that is WR.
It's like you have a Ferrari and a Lambo in your garage (Jones and Dillon) yet you are hung up on the fact that your Scooter situation isn't good enough to get you where you want when you want. Um, hello?? Take your Ferrari/Lambo.
"WR help" is just a sorry excuse for the poor performances of Rodgers and MLF, both of whom are performing poorly precisely because neither of them can think outside the box that is WR.
It's like you have a Ferrari and a Lambo in your garage (Jones and Dillon) yet you are hung up on the fact that your Scooter situation isn't good enough to get you where you want when you want. Um, hello?? Take your Ferrari/Lambo.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:21
Rodgers is so conscious of seeing defensive alignments that stack against the run that he doesn't even give Jones/Dillon the opportunity to fail. Someone needs to remind Rodgers the Packer RBs are averaging 5 yds/carry despite opponents having no fear of his passing offense. I am beyond sick and tired of seeing Jones' and Dillon's opportunities limited because Rodgers didn't like the pre-snap defensive alignment and then the HC in his post-game presser supporting the decisions yet repeating the "our RBs need more touches" mantra week after week.Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 09:47NYG was stacking the box and both RBs were still beating it.
The beauty of our ground game is, you have Jones, who has great vision and quickness and will run well against most teams. And if Jones isn't running well on a given day, you have Dillon, who can create yards even when they're not there by virtue of how powerful the guy is *and* Jones has shown he can line up at receiver!
Rodgers has no problem seeing his passes fail time and again but god forbid the running game experience some struggles. How about Rodgers actually allow the RBs to fail before immediately opting for his hero ball downfield plays that fail time after time after time.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:33
waiting for a all 22 report which I'am thinking will show all short to intermediate routes covered, which forced Rodgers and Lafluer to use deep routes to open the short stuff, still think Rodgers needs to allow more run touches.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:48
horse &%$@, do you have all22 that shows receivers open short, cause I've rarely seen that watching on the tube, in fact often the camera spans back and it's beyond obvious that everyone is covered, even on some of the deep throws Rodgers has missed on there is a possibility he threw a bit off or to the side because those receivers are covered.Labrev wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022 10:15Funny how little Daniel Jones beat us with way, way worse WRs than we have on 1 ankle and our QB, supposedly one of the "best ever" at the position couldn't outplay him with better WRs, against a defense that wasn't much (if at all) better.
"WR help" is just a sorry excuse for the poor performances of Rodgers and MLF, both of whom are performing poorly precisely because neither of them can think outside the box that is WR.
It's like you have a Ferrari and a Lambo in your garage (Jones and Dillon) yet you are hung up on the fact that your Scooter situation isn't good enough to get you where you want when you want. Um, hello?? Take your Ferrari/Lambo.
I will agree that Rodgers has not looked as sharp as he's capable of being, but neither have any of these receivers, also we have witnessed times when the run didn't move the chains, and DR J is spot on, unless we can force defenses to honor the pass, the ability to run will become harder.
we basically had very little after Tae Adams for receivers that a DC had worry about, and that is obvious right now, blaming Rodgers and Lafluer, two people that actually do know what the problems are is short sighted, we could do that forever, and on many different plays, second guessing them is what fans do when they don't want to deal with reality, we've needed to improve this WR situation for half a freaking decade, and your answer is run the ball, that is one dimensional football, and wont be sustainable, Lafluer and Rodgers both know that even if you don't want to admit it.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 10:54
This is pretty much where I am sitting. OBJ is not going to fix this offense. Neither is any other WR they can add this season. This is where we are and it's really not that far off (but it is definitely ugly when it is off).