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Try taking notes from Salmar. He explains things very well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 16:02Bad or good route was never the claim, why do you continue to push this inaccurate description of the argument. The OP was about catch point. To know that, you would need the playbook.
MVS himself was also never the argument, the assertions used to try and make the points was.
Try reading without bias, I explained it multiple times very similarly.Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 17:11Try taking notes from Salmar. He explains things very well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 16:02Bad or good route was never the claim, why do you continue to push this inaccurate description of the argument. The OP was about catch point. To know that, you would need the playbook.
MVS himself was also never the argument, the assertions used to try and make the points was.
-----------------------------------------------There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.
To know where the catch point should be a person would need to know the playbook and how the team/QB wants the routes to be run. NO ONE here knows either.
I new drops where touched and dropped passes, I screwed up saying drops instead of Scantling doesn't catch 50% of targeted throws, which when all is said and done amounts to about the same dang thing
I'll have to add "Yoop is never wrong, but may English bad due to nerd attacks" to my sig...Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 17:32I new drops where touched and dropped passes, I screwed up saying drops instead of Scantling doesn't catch 50% of targeted throws, which when all is said and done amounts to about the same dang thing
the part about long passes was a heat of the moment comment, and a 12% lower completion rate for bombs doesn't seem ungodly awful either, the point is Scantling, for whatever reason couldn't catch a freaking cold.
what I learned is that if I don't explain myself completely perfect there will be a nerd attack, from people that would rather argue and put someone down then have a actual conversation,
It's about time I get some respect around here,lolsalmar80 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 18:23I'll have to add "Yoop is never wrong, but may English bad due to nerd attacks" to my sig...Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 17:32I new drops where touched and dropped passes, I screwed up saying drops instead of Scantling doesn't catch 50% of targeted throws, which when all is said and done amounts to about the same dang thing
the part about long passes was a heat of the moment comment, and a 12% lower completion rate for bombs doesn't seem ungodly awful either, the point is Scantling, for whatever reason couldn't catch a freaking cold.
what I learned is that if I don't explain myself completely perfect there will be a nerd attack, from people that would rather argue and put someone down then have a actual conversation,
Lol. No.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 17:15Try reading without bias, I explained it multiple times very similarly.Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 17:11Try taking notes from Salmar. He explains things very well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 16:02
Bad or good route was never the claim, why do you continue to push this inaccurate description of the argument. The OP was about catch point. To know that, you would need the playbook.
MVS himself was also never the argument, the assertions used to try and make the points was.
There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.
To know where the catch point should be a person would need to know the playbook and how the team/QB wants the routes to be run. NO ONE here knows either.
I also don’t understand the concept that one can’t tell if the pass was good or not without seeing the playbook lol. Often the route dictates where the ball should be, if it’s not in that spot, anyone watching can tell it wasn’t a great ball.
Nothing wrong with this but I am behind on the thread.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:36I love how you are now trying to sound knowledge, but really you come across as a try hard because you realized nothing you have said thus far had any substance. So very ignorant and pathetic.
Let me give you a bit of a hint about the game. A route on any given play has multiple variations depending on the defensive alignment and the coverage the defense is playing. For example, a post is not just a simple post to the goal post. If the defender has inside leverage, the receiver should push for an outside release and then stack the corner before making his break. Now the angle of the post has to do with the coverage of the defense. If it is cover 1 the receiver need to run a skinny post so as not to run into the coverage of the single high safety. If it is cover to, the post needs to look like more of a true post to split the 2 high safeties. This is all still very simplistic compared to an NFL playbook. That you can't even realize these are aspects of a route, I assume it would cook your tiny mind to actually read an NFL playbook. There was also a lot of vocabulary in there that you may not be familiar with, let me know if you need help.
It is hilarious that you think the only nuance is ball placement..so cute.
It is so ironic that it was said if ball placement isn't where it should be it was not a good pass, but the previous argument supported, you just said you are supporting yoop, was that if the ball placement was off it is probably a bad route by the receiver. Hmmm.
I have said consistently throughout this thread that we can not definitively know who it is on without knowing the playbook and the nuances from the meeting rooms. Rodgers is pretty damn good, so ultimately we would say he was right, but on any given, we can't be certain.bud fox wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:49Nothing wrong with this but I am behind on the thread.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:36I love how you are now trying to sound knowledge, but really you come across as a try hard because you realized nothing you have said thus far had any substance. So very ignorant and pathetic.
Let me give you a bit of a hint about the game. A route on any given play has multiple variations depending on the defensive alignment and the coverage the defense is playing. For example, a post is not just a simple post to the goal post. If the defender has inside leverage, the receiver should push for an outside release and then stack the corner before making his break. Now the angle of the post has to do with the coverage of the defense. If it is cover 1 the receiver need to run a skinny post so as not to run into the coverage of the single high safety. If it is cover to, the post needs to look like more of a true post to split the 2 high safeties. This is all still very simplistic compared to an NFL playbook. That you can't even realize these are aspects of a route, I assume it would cook your tiny mind to actually read an NFL playbook. There was also a lot of vocabulary in there that you may not be familiar with, let me know if you need help.
It is hilarious that you think the only nuance is ball placement..so cute.
It is so ironic that it was said if ball placement isn't where it should be it was not a good pass, but the previous argument supported, you just said you are supporting yoop, was that if the ball placement was off it is probably a bad route by the receiver. Hmmm.
Do you actually agree with the last paragraph? Are you saying ball placement is likely on the wr?
Game threads would lead me to think differently.
“Cook your tiny mind” wtf??? LolPckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:36I love how you are now trying to sound knowledge, but really you come across as a try hard because you realized nothing you have said thus far had any substance. So very ignorant and pathetic.
Let me give you a bit of a hint about the game. A route on any given play has multiple variations depending on the defensive alignment and the coverage the defense is playing. For example, a post is not just a simple post to the goal post. If the defender has inside leverage, the receiver should push for an outside release and then stack the corner before making his break. Now the angle of the post has to do with the coverage of the defense. If it is cover 1 the receiver need to run a skinny post so as not to run into the coverage of the single high safety. If it is cover to, the post needs to look like more of a true post to split the 2 high safeties. This is all still very simplistic compared to an NFL playbook. That you can't even realize these are aspects of a route, I assume it would cook your tiny mind to actually read an NFL playbook. There was also a lot of vocabulary in there that you may not be familiar with, let me know if you need help.
It is hilarious that you think the only nuance is ball placement..so cute.
It is so ironic that it was said if ball placement isn't where it should be it was not a good pass, but the previous argument supported, you just said you are supporting yoop, was that if the ball placement was off it is probably a bad route by the receiver. Hmmm.
Haha you are even now contradicting your previous support. If Rodgers throws what looks like a bad ball and gives a look at the receiver that probably is an incorrect route by the receiver, that's on the receiver. However, you also say that since the placement is bad it is on the QB.Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:54“Cook your tiny mind” wtf??? LolPckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:36I love how you are now trying to sound knowledge, but really you come across as a try hard because you realized nothing you have said thus far had any substance. So very ignorant and pathetic.
Let me give you a bit of a hint about the game. A route on any given play has multiple variations depending on the defensive alignment and the coverage the defense is playing. For example, a post is not just a simple post to the goal post. If the defender has inside leverage, the receiver should push for an outside release and then stack the corner before making his break. Now the angle of the post has to do with the coverage of the defense. If it is cover 1 the receiver need to run a skinny post so as not to run into the coverage of the single high safety. If it is cover to, the post needs to look like more of a true post to split the 2 high safeties. This is all still very simplistic compared to an NFL playbook. That you can't even realize these are aspects of a route, I assume it would cook your tiny mind to actually read an NFL playbook. There was also a lot of vocabulary in there that you may not be familiar with, let me know if you need help.
It is hilarious that you think the only nuance is ball placement..so cute.
It is so ironic that it was said if ball placement isn't where it should be it was not a good pass, but the previous argument supported, you just said you are supporting yoop, was that if the ball placement was off it is probably a bad route by the receiver. Hmmm.
My point is something you still fail to understand. The correct place for the ball becomes obvious as a play develops. It’s not rocket science. Where the ball should be often depends on defensive coverage, and you can tell when a QB misjudged placement. How often do you hear aikman say “he’s gotta put that ball on his outside shoulder....” or comment on where the ball should have been? They say that stuff all game when a bad QB is playing. Do you really think aikman is looking at the packers playbook when he says that stuff? Hint: he’s not, it’s just obvious where the ball should be based on the the route and coverage.
You may need a playbook to determine if the receiver ran a good route or the qb made a good throw, many of us can tell because we watch football.
That was another point I was making. He makes it obvious. If he’s barking at the WR you know. If he’s quiet or even points to himself, you know.bud fox wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022 00:00It is more complicated than it looks but it isn't rocket science.
There was a swing route last year to amari and 23/others blamed Rodgers placement. The reality was amari didn't run the right route and you can tell that because of how Rodgers signalled to him, Rodgers being the best and amari being a rookie.
You can often tell when Rodgers does something wrong which is not often. He has a certain demeanour following the play.
I know Yoop embarrassed you and this has caused you to lash out and repeatedly question my intellect, but I will just note I have resisted going eye for an eye with you in this manner. You have shamed yourself plenty today, I don’t need to pile on.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022 00:02Haha you are even now contradicting your previous support. If Rodgers throws what looks like a bad ball and gives a look at the receiver that probably is an incorrect route by the receiver, that's on the receiver. However, you also say that since the placement is bad it is on the QB.Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:54“Cook your tiny mind” wtf??? LolPckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 23:36I love how you are now trying to sound knowledge, but really you come across as a try hard because you realized nothing you have said thus far had any substance. So very ignorant and pathetic.
Let me give you a bit of a hint about the game. A route on any given play has multiple variations depending on the defensive alignment and the coverage the defense is playing. For example, a post is not just a simple post to the goal post. If the defender has inside leverage, the receiver should push for an outside release and then stack the corner before making his break. Now the angle of the post has to do with the coverage of the defense. If it is cover 1 the receiver need to run a skinny post so as not to run into the coverage of the single high safety. If it is cover to, the post needs to look like more of a true post to split the 2 high safeties. This is all still very simplistic compared to an NFL playbook. That you can't even realize these are aspects of a route, I assume it would cook your tiny mind to actually read an NFL playbook. There was also a lot of vocabulary in there that you may not be familiar with, let me know if you need help.
It is hilarious that you think the only nuance is ball placement..so cute.
It is so ironic that it was said if ball placement isn't where it should be it was not a good pass, but the previous argument supported, you just said you are supporting yoop, was that if the ball placement was off it is probably a bad route by the receiver. Hmmm.
My point is something you still fail to understand. The correct place for the ball becomes obvious as a play develops. It’s not rocket science. Where the ball should be often depends on defensive coverage, and you can tell when a QB misjudged placement. How often do you hear aikman say “he’s gotta put that ball on his outside shoulder....” or comment on where the ball should have been? They say that stuff all game when a bad QB is playing. Do you really think aikman is looking at the packers playbook when he says that stuff? Hint: he’s not, it’s just obvious where the ball should be based on the the route and coverage.
You may need a playbook to determine if the receiver ran a good route or the qb made a good throw, many of us can tell because we watch football.
Sure some throws are easy to determine, as you pointed out, a back shoulder on the front shoulder is easy to pick out. However, there is a heck of a lot more to it than that. If a QB overthrows the WR on a post, is that the QB throwing a bad pass or the receiver running a shallow post when they should have run a skinny post? We can't know that. This is where you ignorance shows. You think the routes are simplistic, they are not. You think you can tell, but unfortunately you suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
165 incompletions last year, are you claiming the vast majority of those you saw Rodgers give his receivers "a look" or exhibited this demeanor? I agree there are times he does get on his receivers and we can see it, but that is no where near enough to determine if a route was incorrect or the ball placement was not good, on any given play.bud fox wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022 00:00It is more complicated than it looks but it isn't rocket science.
There was a swing route last year to amari and 23/others blamed Rodgers placement. The reality was amari didn't run the right route and you can tell that because of how Rodgers signalled to him, Rodgers being the best and amari being a rookie.
You can often tell when Rodgers does something wrong which is not often. He has a certain demeanour following the play.
No you can tell when Rodgers makes the mistake.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022 00:07165 incompletions last year, are you claiming the vast majority of those you saw Rodgers give his receivers "a look" or exhibited this demeanor? I agree there are times he does get on his receivers and we can see it, but that is no where near enough to determine if a route was incorrect or the ball placement was not good, on any given play.bud fox wrote: ↑06 Aug 2022 00:00It is more complicated than it looks but it isn't rocket science.
There was a swing route last year to amari and 23/others blamed Rodgers placement. The reality was amari didn't run the right route and you can tell that because of how Rodgers signalled to him, Rodgers being the best and amari being a rookie.
You can often tell when Rodgers does something wrong which is not often. He has a certain demeanour following the play.