Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:31

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:23

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 12:40

S gets interesting again. I think some people like the idea of keeping Savage as a single high. I hate that. He’s always been at his best in the robber role. When you ask him to be the deep solo S he stinks. He just doesn’t make plays in that role and when he needs to be that last line of defense and make a tackle he often fails. Miserably might I add.

This has been my greatest disappointment about Savage as a pick.

He has everything you need physically to be that rare safety this scheme requires and this exact role is why I loved him as a draft prospect and it just turned out that his processing was a beat too slow to make use of his speed. And despite what should have been, yes, he always wound up playing better in more of the robber role close to the line of scrimmage

Was it Savage holding himself back or was it Barry's scheme holding Savage back? He was definitely a better player under Pettine. I would be interested to see what he would look like in a scheme that isn't keep everything in front and tackle.

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

Labrev wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:00

Even in Savage's one good year, tackling was a deficiency for him. It has been his whole career, even in college. Sure, he may have the range to cover over the top of the defense, but he cannot be trusted to be the last-line-of-defense on explosives. Time to pull the plug on this experiment.

If we get rid of every player with this or that, we think they don't do well, we wont field a team next year, Savage had 55 tackles in 10 games played, thats 5 tackles a game, and is our most experienced safety, not like anyone we have is kicking him out the door.

we hear not just with Savage, others to, that they take poor angles, some of that at least is pre snap set up, poor design, how often have we felt our players where out of place? I know hard to tell when the whole of the secondary is a dozen yards off the LOS

my point is imho there no way for Haf to be worse then the guy we just had for 3 years.

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:26

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:31

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:23

This has been my greatest disappointment about Savage as a pick.

He has everything you need physically to be that rare safety this scheme requires and this exact role is why I loved him as a draft prospect and it just turned out that his processing was a beat too slow to make use of his speed. And despite what should have been, yes, he always wound up playing better in more of the robber role close to the line of scrimmage

Was it Savage holding himself back or was it Barry's scheme holding Savage back? He was definitely a better player under Pettine. I would be interested to see what he would look like in a scheme that isn't keep everything in front and tackle.

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:31

Labrev wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:00

Even in Savage's one good year, tackling was a deficiency for him. It has been his whole career, even in college. Sure, he may have the range to cover over the top of the defense, but he cannot be trusted to be the last-line-of-defense on explosives. Time to pull the plug on this experiment.

If we get rid of every player with this or that, we think they don't do well, we wont field a team next year, Savage had 55 tackles in 10 games played, thats 5 tackles a game, and is our most experienced safety, not like anyone we have is kicking him out the door.

we hear not just with Savage, others to, that they take poor angles, some of that at least is pre snap set up, poor design, how often have we felt our players where out of place? I know hard to tell when the whole of the secondary is a dozen yards off the LOS

my point is imho there no way for Haf to be worse then the guy we just had for 3 years.

I understand we cannot get rid of every player with a deficiency. I am not Mr. Lupe that thinks every player who is not elite is boo boo bum soss.

But when the deficiency goes to a core part of their job, then no, you do not hold onto that player.

So if you are a last-line-of-defense Safety, you need to be a sure tackler, because if you are not, the D surrenders points on the play (the main thing defenses try to prevent). Sure, even a great player will whiff from time to time but if your batting average is high, then you get to start. If not, you don't. Simple as.

We do not need to pay even vet-min for Savage; if we want a rangy speedster who can't reliably tackle, you can find that every year in UDFA for a fraction of vet-min.

Also, aggregate tackle stats do not disprove my point. What I mean by being poor at tackling is he whiffs a lot, not that he does not record enough tackles statistically lol.

The only stat that would debunk me was if you could show that his miss rate on tackles is on par with or better than most Safeties. It would go against my eye-test, but would be compelling enough proof against my assertion to make me question myself.

texas wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 12:53

And yeah I know Dan Campbell is the latter type and he has been a revolutionary success in Detroit, but Leader of Men head coaches pretty much never work out anymore (except for him).

It works for him because his O-Coord is a genius and his D-Coord does a pretty good job too (except for last week). How he does when his coordinator talent regresses to the mean will say a lot about him.

.... unless he just keeps hiring fantastic coordinators, in which case he would be an excellent head coach on that skill alone!

My take on Savage is that he's a bit of a slow learner and they keep switching schemes on him.

He was a late bloomer in college.

His sophomore season was better than his rookie season, then he regressed when he got to Barry.

He was quietly starting to improve throughout the year this year in year two of Barry, but we're switching again.

But all that said, when he improved under Pettine it was not as a rangy deep safety, but as a robber. When he improved this year, it wasn't without the dropped ball skills and the missed tackles.

So he's a slow learner with some critical weaknesses. I think he'd be a much better player right now if he was drafted bya team that had a steady, reliable, competent defensive play caller and scheme. I'd love to give him a vet min kinda deal for another year and see if he clicks in this scheme, but that would be unlikely to yield much success given his track record of struggling mightily each time he goes to a new system.

Barry’s scheme had nothing to do with Savage not wanting to tackle or lacking physicality.

Barry’s scheme also has nothing to do with Quay being completely lost and reacting late to picking up coverages when in zone.

The latter didn't happen much with Quay. In fact he is a very good coverage LB. The issue comes with the Tampa 2 defense where we drop ILBs deep middle and give up the flats to backs and shallow crossers.

As for Savage, he was know for making plays on the ball in college and even under Pettine. Barry, not so much.

As far as I'm concerned, Savage should have been let go after dropping that INT in the SF game.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:34

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:26

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:31

Was it Savage holding himself back or was it Barry's scheme holding Savage back? He was definitely a better player under Pettine. I would be interested to see what he would look like in a scheme that isn't keep everything in front and tackle.

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

The top one was in his first two seasons.

Papa John wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

As far as I'm concerned, Savage should have been let go after dropping that INT in the SF game.

how about right after the 60 plus yard pick 6 against dallas, that way he wouldn't have been around for that pick drop against the niners, just saying good players drop easy catches too, how about tae's drop in the ez of a po game? no one id perfect, and Savage is a better player then Brady allowed him to be, last season under Pettine he was one of the best last part of season.

just struggles in cover 1

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:34

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:26

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

The top one was in his first two seasons.

he got turned around and lost track of the ball, happens to other good players, ffs does any player get a break with some of you

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:34

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:26

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

The top one was in his first two seasons.

Yes

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:58

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:34

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

The top one was in his first two seasons.

he got turned around and lost track of the ball, happens to other good players, ffs does any player get a break with some of you

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 15:36

Barry’s scheme had nothing to do with Savage not wanting to tackle or lacking physicality.

Barry’s scheme also has nothing to do with Quay being completely lost and reacting late to picking up coverages when in zone.

not every player is as good as you expect them to be, Savage is not near as chicken &%$@ as your describing, typically he's our 3 or 4th leading tackler, from playing deep center those are solid numbers, and while Quay is subject to over pursuit at times he's decent, far better then any lber we've had since Barnett when ya mesh both techs.

Haf will make both players more productive should we resign Savage.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:59

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:58

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

The top one was in his first two seasons.

he got turned around and lost track of the ball, happens to other good players, ffs does any player get a break with some of you

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:34

go pak go wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 14:26

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 13:31

Was it Savage holding himself back or was it Barry's scheme holding Savage back? He was definitely a better player under Pettine. I would be interested to see what he would look like in a scheme that isn't keep everything in front and tackle.

I just hate his ball skills.

The deep ball vs Tampa in the 2020 NFCCG.
The deep ball vs ATL Week 2 in 2023
The dropped pick 6.

These aren't scheme issues. At some point you just gotta make the play and he often doesn't.

That was a strength of his in college and didn't seem to be an issue as much his first 2 seasons.

And no one has mentioned that Savage has had numerous problems covering tight ends. I remember a few years ago when Mark Andrews owned him the entire game. It’s been a consistent weakness in his game.

But as others have stated, the main problem has always been his inability to wrap up and tackle. He is a safety for god’s sakes.

Please don’t resign him.

Yoop wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:55

Papa John wrote: ↑

01 Feb 2024 16:19

As far as I'm concerned, Savage should have been let go after dropping that INT in the SF game.

how about right after the 60 plus yard pick 6 against dallas, that way he wouldn't have been around for that pick drop against the niners, just saying good players drop easy catches too, how about tae's drop in the ez of a po game? no one id perfect, and Savage is a better player then Brady allowed him to be, last season under Pettine he was one of the best last part of season.

just struggles in cover 1

I am willing to compromise and retain him as a reserve player, but honestly, if an NFL safety struggles that much in Cover 1, why the hell is he a safety? I've always wondered this.

I am becoming more convinced that football IQ, and not measurables, is the primary determining factor in whether an NFL safety will be successful. Doesn't matter how fast or quick twitch the guy is, if he is too slow upstairs, that extra second he will have to take to process information in real time is going to negate any physical advantage that he had.

This applies to Savage IMO, I just think he lacks the football IQ to succeed in this league.

go pak go wrote: ↑

31 Jan 2024 21:05

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

31 Jan 2024 18:45

I suggested that we would be in the dark until a name was named. A couple said I was wrong.

Anyhow, classic MLF/Packers hire. I'm sure we won't know enough to scratch our itch til around September.

I'm in until otherwise. In MLF I trust.
:-)

No I remember you said we won't know until he is announced at press conference time.

I wouldn't call this that scenario. It was a surprising name but we found out through media before the Packers announced anything.

OK.
:-)