Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 10:17

Obviously pressure is going to make the QBs job harder, but there is a huge gap between those numbers. We need to help Rodgers out when he is pressured. Have an outlet guy so that we aren't throwing it away so much or just chucking it.

Getting our linemen back will help in so much as we will not have to chip as much.

It seems that when he's pressured, many times it comes in fast and hot and no chance of escape. I'd be curious to see the numbers when you take away those obvious OL miscommunications when a guy comes in untouched.

But the last few seasons Rodgers hasn't been near as good when pressured.

paco wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 11:10

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 10:17

Obviously pressure is going to make the QBs job harder, but there is a huge gap between those numbers. We need to help Rodgers out when he is pressured. Have an outlet guy so that we aren't throwing it away so much or just chucking it.

Getting our linemen back will help in so much as we will not have to chip as much.

It seems that when he's pressured, many times it comes in fast and hot and no chance of escape. I'd be curious to see the numbers when you take away those obvious OL miscommunications when a guy comes in untouched.

But the last few seasons Rodgers hasn't been near as good when pressured.

I think that has a lot to do with how in the last few years he hasnt run around like houdini and tried to buy as much time as possible as he then waits for WRs to come back to him. I am glad he has limited this style as it helps him protect himself and stay on the field more as he ages.

paco wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 11:10

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 10:17

Obviously pressure is going to make the QBs job harder, but there is a huge gap between those numbers. We need to help Rodgers out when he is pressured. Have an outlet guy so that we aren't throwing it away so much or just chucking it.

Getting our linemen back will help in so much as we will not have to chip as much.

It seems that when he's pressured, many times it comes in fast and hot and no chance of escape. I'd be curious to see the numbers when you take away those obvious OL miscommunications when a guy comes in untouched.

But the last few seasons Rodgers hasn't been near as good when pressured.

I can't say that that type of pressure is happening more than later in the down pressure. I know it obviously does happen, but how much, I am not sure.

Not sure we would ever get numbers for that. PFF breaks it down by time in the pocket, but we aren't going to see those numbers.

The checkdowns and the outlet passes really need to be utilized more, both when it is there and in the play calling.

Now get him in the EZ.

paco wrote: ↑

13 Oct 2021 11:10

It seems that when he's pressured, many times it comes in fast and hot and no chance of escape. I'd be curious to see the numbers when you take away those obvious OL miscommunications when a guy comes in untouched.

But the last few seasons Rodgers hasn't been near as good when pressured.

Over the years - DCs tried to blitz, but AR killed them with is arm and his legs. Then they morphed to "rushing to contain", so Rodgers couldn't slip out and beat them with his legs. But that gave AR too much time - so Zimmer adapted and others followed with the delayed blitz. The off ball LB would hesitate for a moment while the OL picked up their responsibilities... and then the LB would come screaming through the open hole.

Now, its the untouched ones you noted above, made possible by creating confusion on the OL. Going from Linsley--> Myers, Bak-->Yosh and Jenkins--> Runyan probably contribute to the miscommunications

Cat & mouse continues...but Rodgers just doesn't have the young wheels anymore

if anything is a constant it's that the NFL is always evolving, as soon as defenses figure out how to stop offense the offense adjust to something new or a older scheme that worked, we see teams using more up tempo on schedule passing into mid level zones, so defenses use 4-5-2 variation to stop it, it's hard to find receivers open at lber level cause the zones are so much smaller.

we just had a thread concerning where Adams ranked with Sharp and Lofton, I had Sharp and Lofton ahead of Adams, I think I'am wrong about that, Adams is succeeding against defenses that I think are providing better coverages, and he's doing so almost by himself, the only other player we have that can freeze a deep safety has been out a few games now, and even when healthy only catches 50% of targets, but thats been better then anyone else on the roster.

no this is not me saying we need more good good receivers, just the reality's of this situation seen through the eyes of a half blind ol guy

Yikes.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 09:13

Yikes.

Yeah, that's not good, 'though I also feel like this stat may be a bit inflated by the fact that we are working with a bootleg OL.

Still, I hope both he and MLF are aware of this and working on some plays to beat the pressure (namely screens and such).

I wouldn't say inflated, but playing the offensive line that we have been has led to RBs and TEs having to help out and not be the outlet pass as often as they could be. Among other things.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 09:13

Yikes.

Eh, something I don't think is super sustainable, the descrepancy, low volume, particularly on the pressured end.

No reason for concern or to think he won't regress to the mean for a normal QB under pressure, if not exceed that threshold because he is Aaron Rodgers.

BF004 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:01

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 09:13

Yikes.

Eh, something I don't think is super sustainable, the descrepancy, low volume, particularly on the pressured end.

No reason for concern or to think he won't regress to the mean for a normal QB under pressure, if not exceed that threshold because he is Aaron Rodgers.

Hard to throw to WRs who aren’t open when under pressure. Are their dump offs available that he is missing? Do our receivers separate less than others? Basically just not sure the stat tells us a lot without more context.

Hard to throw to WRs who aren’t open when under pressure. Are their dump offs available that he is missing? Do our receivers separate less than others? Basically just not sure the stat tells us a lot without more context.

Interesting questions given the original statement. Do you believe you already have the answer?

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32 out of 32 QBs is not good, not good at all. Obviously multiple factors, including the QB himself.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:08

Hard to throw to WRs who aren’t open when under pressure. Are their dump offs available that he is missing? Do our receivers separate less than others? Basically just not sure the stat tells us a lot without more context.

Interesting questions given the original statement. Do you believe you already have the answer?

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32 out of 32 QBs is not good, not good at all. Obviously multiple factors, including the QB himself.

Not sure about your question. I put forth questions and then say it is hard to know what to make of the stat without answers to those questions or more context.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:14

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:08

Hard to throw to WRs who aren’t open when under pressure. Are their dump offs available that he is missing? Do our receivers separate less than others? Basically just not sure the stat tells us a lot without more context.

Interesting questions given the original statement. Do you believe you already have the answer?

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32 out of 32 QBs is not good, not good at all. Obviously multiple factors, including the QB himself.

Not sure about your question. I put forth questions and then say it is hard to know what to make of the stat without answers to those questions or more context.

Commenting about the original statement of "Hard to throw to WRs who aren't open when under pressure." Didn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Wondering if that is what you thought the reasoning behind it is.

I genuinely and truly don't understand how we can go through a whole frickin' season as the #1 offense in the NFL and our QB winning MVP, bring back the same skill position players, add a veteran WR and a rookie WR, and STILL not be able to go through five minutes without someone pointing at the WRs as the reason the offense looks sluggish at times.

It is the injuries on the OL, the playcalls, and the decision-making by the QB. That's what's happening. It's very apparent. Just drop the preconceived notions already. They have been resoundingly disproven. This offense can SOAR with this set of skill position players. We know this because we have seen it.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:14

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:08

Interesting questions given the original statement. Do you believe you already have the answer?

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32 out of 32 QBs is not good, not good at all. Obviously multiple factors, including the QB himself.

Not sure about your question. I put forth questions and then say it is hard to know what to make of the stat without answers to those questions or more context.

Commenting about the original statement of "Hard to throw to WRs who aren't open when under pressure." Didn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Wondering if that is what you thought the reasoning behind it is.

Whats hard to understand...I make a blanket statement that is hard to throw to receivers that arent open while under pressure, then I ask questions that would help me understand if that is a factor in the problem...like are we giving the QB adequate dumpoff options? and are our WRs beating their defenders during those plays?

Answers to these questions would help us have more context (as originally stated) in knowing if this is a Rodgers problem (turns into an awful QB when pressured and misses open guys), a play design problem (are dumpoff options even available in the route schemes), or an offense as a whole problem (no one is open when the pressure comes, so of course there is going to be an incompletion)?

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:32

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2021 11:14

Not sure about your question. I put forth questions and then say it is hard to know what to make of the stat without answers to those questions or more context.

Commenting about the original statement of "Hard to throw to WRs who aren't open when under pressure." Didn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Wondering if that is what you thought the reasoning behind it is.

Whats hard to understand...I make a blanket statement that is hard to throw to receivers that arent open while under pressure, then I ask questions that would help me understand if that is a factor in the problem...like are we giving the QB adequate dumpoff options? and are our WRs beating their defenders during those plays?

Answers to these questions would help us have more context (as originally stated) in knowing if this is a Rodgers problem (turns into an awful QB when pressured and misses open guys), a play design problem (are dumpoff options even available in the route schemes), or an offense as a whole problem (no one is open when the pressure comes, so of course there is going to be an incompletion)?

I mean, more first round receivers who automatically always get immediately open like all first round WRs do, that would be great. But I think this time it would make sense if it had something to do with the fact we've had to give our OL a lotta help.

Chipping takes time, takes away a potential quick route, route combo or a rub, and staying home to pass block takes away a route entirely. That means less guys going on routes, less options to scheme someone open quickly. If AR get pressured despite the help, there's less options.

Also worth noting that our offense is running very effectively--[mention]BF004[/mention] brought EPA/play numbers, I have pointed out Football Outsiders' DVOA metrics that utilize a per-play basis.

The TOTAL numbers are down because we are running fewer plays, just as much if not more so than because we are being less effective with the plays we call.

It's all about getting off the field on defensive 3rd downs and converting for a first down on offensive 3rd downs, thus keeping the plays to continue possessions and limiting their plays to receive possession.

So in some ways, we are diagnosing a problem based on symptoms that aren't even real.