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Commenting about the original statement of "Hard to throw to WRs who aren't open when under pressure." Didn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Wondering if that is what you thought the reasoning behind it is.
Whats hard to understand...I make a blanket statement that is hard to throw to receivers that arent open while under pressure, then I ask questions that would help me understand if that is a factor in the problem...like are we giving the QB adequate dumpoff options? and are our WRs beating their defenders during those plays?
Answers to these questions would help us have more context (as originally stated) in knowing if this is a Rodgers problem (turns into an awful QB when pressured and misses open guys), a play design problem (are dumpoff options even available in the route schemes), or an offense as a whole problem (no one is open when the pressure comes, so of course there is going to be an incompletion)?
I mean, more first round receivers who automatically always get immediately open like all first round WRs do, that would be great. But I think this time it would make sense if it had something to do with the fact we've had to give our OL a lotta help.
Chipping takes time, takes away a potential quick route, route combo or a rub, and staying home to pass block takes away a route entirely. That means less guys going on routes, less options to scheme someone open quickly. If AR get pressured despite the help, there's less options.
I was one of the first ones to state the issue was the OL, Lupe quoted my response about this topic at another time and said that once we get the OL back and right, we will be healed. I agree.
I was just responding to the stat and the stat response that said "yikes", to point out that its probably more than just Rodgers forgot how to throw under pressure. My guess is guys arent open in the time that the pressure comes, maybe their arent enough easy dumpoff routes to compensate for less time to throw, and that when there arent open guys...its really hard to complete a ball while under pressure.
Not sure about your question. I put forth questions and then say it is hard to know what to make of the stat without answers to those questions or more context.
Commenting about the original statement of "Hard to throw to WRs who aren't open when under pressure." Didn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Wondering if that is what you thought the reasoning behind it is.
Whats hard to understand...I make a blanket statement that is hard to throw to receivers that arent open while under pressure, then I ask questions that would help me understand if that is a factor in the problem...like are we giving the QB adequate dumpoff options? and are our WRs beating their defenders during those plays?
Answers to these questions would help us have more context (as originally stated) in knowing if this is a Rodgers problem (turns into an awful QB when pressured and misses open guys), a play design problem (are dumpoff options even available in the route schemes), or an offense as a whole problem (no one is open when the pressure comes, so of course there is going to be an incompletion)?
Oh, it's a general statement about the NFL as a whole. It wasn't specific to the Packers. Got it. That was a little confusing, especially since it didn't exactly fit with the rest of the post or even the original post about Rodgers being 32 out of 32 QBs when under pressure.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Was it ever said or even implied that it was just Rodgers?
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Whats hard to understand...I make a blanket statement that is hard to throw to receivers that arent open while under pressure, then I ask questions that would help me understand if that is a factor in the problem...like are we giving the QB adequate dumpoff options? and are our WRs beating their defenders during those plays?
Answers to these questions would help us have more context (as originally stated) in knowing if this is a Rodgers problem (turns into an awful QB when pressured and misses open guys), a play design problem (are dumpoff options even available in the route schemes), or an offense as a whole problem (no one is open when the pressure comes, so of course there is going to be an incompletion)?
I mean, more first round receivers who automatically always get immediately open like all first round WRs do, that would be great. But I think this time it would make sense if it had something to do with the fact we've had to give our OL a lotta help.
Chipping takes time, takes away a potential quick route, route combo or a rub, and staying home to pass block takes away a route entirely. That means less guys going on routes, less options to scheme someone open quickly. If AR get pressured despite the help, there's less options.
I was one of the first ones to state the issue was the OL, Lupe quoted my response about this topic at another time and said that once we get the OL back and right, we will be healed. I agree.
I was just responding to the stat and the stat response that said "yikes", to point out that its probably more than just Rodgers forgot how to throw under pressure. My guess is guys arent open in the time that the pressure comes, maybe their arent enough easy dumpoff routes to compensate for less time to throw, and that when there arent open guys...its really hard to complete a ball while under pressure.
It's fun to analyze this, actually. I think the O as a whole has functioned great considering the makeshift OL, but there's a price to pay for giving help to it (otherwise you'd always help 'em). When you have less routes run, the opposing secondary should have an easier time covering them. LaFleur will still scheme a guy open, but it's hard to put several receivers in a favorable situation. Usually it's Adams who gets a diversion route to help him out. Davante is amazing, but he's not beating entire secondaries completely by himself.
There are also notable examples of other receivers coming open and Rodgers going to Davante anyway. He likes and trusts Davante the most, for good reason. We've heard him in multiple scenarios say that his plan is to get the ball to Davante in certain situations even before plays are called or defenses are lined up. We know it happens.
He tries it with Tonyan, as well, who may have the best hands on the team. He likes and trusts him, as well. I can think of two examples--Tonyan's TD when Lazard was wide open for an easy first down (and maybe TD) and the missed deep shot on 3rd down last week when Jones was wide open underneath.
These aren't meant to insult Rodgers at all. Getting the ball to your playmakers is sound strategy and it's been working for us. But we shouldn't assume that because the ball is only GOING to one or two players that the only OPTIONS are going to one or two players. It may even be the case that struggles under pressure come when the top option is taken away and Rodgers sometimes-not-always tries to throw there anyway, be it waiting for the player a little longer, or squeezing something in a tight place when wider spaces to lesser players are available.
Again, this is not an insult. This is not a criticism. But it may be true that we are examining a bit of a problem that doesn't fully exist. I mean even the bad play under pressure is limited by the fact that he is very rarely under pressure. By rule, a play in which he is pressured is a play in which things haven't played out as they are intended to. It might be because of the OL missing blocks; it might be because the initial read is covered up and Rodgers gets off schedule and takes long enough to GET pressured.
There are a bunch of things going on here. The OL and the extra chips and blockers is clearly the primary thing. What I am confident in saying that the remainder of the issues have nothing to do with a lack of talent or poor players. It has to do with getting the most out of them. That's on the coach and QB. We've seen what these guys can do, collectively, when things click.
Last edited by YoHoChecko on 14 Oct 2021 14:58, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I feel like we could have Bakh, Myers, and Jenkins all back next week against Washington, meaning we go into the Thursday nighter at full strength.
I wonder if there will be any sort of pitch count with Bakh as he eases in and gets confidence back in his knee.
I believe MVS is able to play vs Washington too and Alexander "technically" against AZ too right?
I don't know if those are literally calendar day designations or "games" (meaning the 3 weeks).
My guess is MVS has a shot to play at least in AZ. Alexander likely not.
I think they bring the whole squad back against AZ. Doesn’t make sense to bring anyone back against Washington just to have the short week against AZ next. But bring them back against AZ and then get 10 days rest for the next game.
I feel like we could have Bakh, Myers, and Jenkins all back next week against Washington, meaning we go into the Thursday nighter at full strength.
I wonder if there will be any sort of pitch count with Bakh as he eases in and gets confidence back in his knee.
I believe MVS is able to play vs Washington too and Alexander "technically" against AZ too right?
I don't know if those are literally calendar day designations or "games" (meaning the 3 weeks).
My guess is MVS has a shot to play at least in AZ. Alexander likely not.
I think they bring the whole squad back against AZ. Doesn’t make sense to bring anyone back against Washington just to have the short week against AZ next. But bring them back against AZ and then get 10 days rest for the next game.
That’s what I’m thinking happens, too. It makes the most sense.
I believe MVS is able to play vs Washington too and Alexander "technically" against AZ too right?
I don't know if those are literally calendar day designations or "games" (meaning the 3 weeks).
My guess is MVS has a shot to play at least in AZ. Alexander likely not.
I think they bring the whole squad back against AZ. Doesn’t make sense to bring anyone back against Washington just to have the short week against AZ next. But bring them back against AZ and then get 10 days rest for the next game.
That’s what I’m thinking happens, too. It makes the most sense.
I don’t think it makes much sense, at all. Short week of preparation and on the road? The WFT game makes way more sense. Otherwise, I think it will be more likely they will be held out until KC.
I think they bring the whole squad back against AZ. Doesn’t make sense to bring anyone back against Washington just to have the short week against AZ next. But bring them back against AZ and then get 10 days rest for the next game.
That’s what I’m thinking happens, too. It makes the most sense.
I don’t think it makes much sense, at all. Short week of preparation and on the road? The WFT game makes way more sense. Otherwise, I think it will be more likely they will be held out until KC.
Washington is a weak opponent. If the staff feels like they are close on injuries, I’d presume they’d elect to hold the injured players out one more week, go with what they have against the weaker WA opponent, then bring those injured players back with an additional 4 days rest against AZ in the Thursday night game. They’d then be able to rest those non-game acclimated players 10 day before the next match up.
Newman hasn't been particularly good, but at least he and Turner have stayed in there. Between LT and OC, there has been a ton of musical chairs and they have really held up well.
Newman hasn't been particularly good, but at least he and Turner have stayed in there. Between LT and OC, there has been a ton of musical chairs and they have really held up well.
I actually think Newman has played fairly well, but has had too many mental mistakes and outright whiffs. But he's played really well in between. 1 more year in the program and the weight room will do him wonders. A lot to like there.
