Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2020 19:47

I know this isn't NFL, but EQ's little brother has FOUR TD catches tonight for USC...


...in the first quarter.

He'll be drafted a good deal higher than EQ.

Jets fired Gregg Williams. No surprise after one of the worst defensive calls ever.

paco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:56

Jets fired Gregg Williams. No surprise after one of the worst defensive calls ever.

I know a lot of people want a new DC but can we please never think about Gregg Williams? Thanks.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 11:02

paco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:56

Jets fired Gregg Williams. No surprise after one of the worst defensive calls ever.

I know a lot of people want a new DC but can we please never think about Gregg Williams? Thanks.

No argument here.

Gregg Williams did the anti-Pettine move and rushed 8 when leading by 4 points with 13 seconds to play and the Raiders having the ball at the 46-yard line. Speedy WR Henry Ruggs promptly put a double move on a rookie corner on an island, and blew way past him, scoring the winning TD.

I mean, I hate prevent as much as the next guy, but holy hell.

That situation is cover 2 over man across the board and rushing 4. At the very least, cover 1 over man across the board and send a blitzer. Maybe a little tank for Trevor?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 11:18

That situation is cover 2 over man across the board and rushing 4. At the very least, cover 1 over man across the board and send a blitzer. Maybe a little tank for Trevor?

I still don't put much stock in coaches/players tanking. That's a management thing more than anything else. Losing doesn't help them keep their jobs. Certainly didn't help Williams. Though if you are with the Jets, you may just want out and will do anything you can to get fired.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 11:18

That situation is cover 2 over man across the board and rushing 4. At the very least, cover 1 over man across the board and send a blitzer. Maybe a little tank for Trevor?

Williams was Def coordinator when the Browns went 0-16.

His baseline is tanking.

Or giving players cash bribes to injury the other team.

I just fail to see the upside. Even if they sack Carr and it's game over, no one is calling Williams a genius. I think people would still question the call.

Tanking is such a funny concept. Sounds GREAT in theory. But also in theory, it only works if no one else is doing it, too.

There are about 10 teams who enter each season with an elevated chance at winning it all based on roster strength, coaching etc. Let's call them "contenders". They will try to win every game, until they lose enough to be called "pretenders".

Imagine if the other 22 teams all decided that the SB is impossible, decided to "do the smart thing" and tank their seasons from the start. What a bloody farce that would be! The meetings between tanking teams would be unwatchable. Heck, most of the season would be unwatchable.

Only the games between the "contenders" would matter. And as soon as a team is designated a "pretender", they'd join the competition to lose as much as they can.

Now that would be great $%@# entertainment. I'm sure the fans, the sponsors and the betting world would just looooove it. Betting on who tanks the hardest...

And somehow players, coaches and team staff all would still be fighting for jobs and money. How would you distinguish yourself on a willingly losing team? By being the best loser?

---

Overall, tanking sounds like a game theory exercise, a mind game, where only one player can tank short term for later benefits while all other players are forced to try to win. When you allow multiple players to try to tank, the benefits of said tanking decrease. As will it if you don't consider the benefit of tanking automatic, instead chance-based. Add more real-life parameters and the benefits shrink exponentially.

No, I was being facetious. Tanking doesn't work in the NFL. Too many moving parts who are looking out for personal well being.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:02

Betting on who tanks the hardest...

there's even a website dedicated to tanking called Tankathon
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

and they rank the upcoming opponents as well
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/remaining_ ... e_strength
.

If you are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you have no benefit to winning games. 0. All youre doing is costing yourself position in the draft. Not just the 1st round but every round which affects your ability to draft better players or manipulate the draft better.

In 2018 the Jaguars beat the Dolphins week 16 to go 5-11. The 49ers finished 4-12. I dont know how the tie breakers would have worked out but imagine if the Jags had that pick instead and get Nick Bosa. Franchise is changed forever. Instead the 49ers land Bosa and go on to the SB.

BSA wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:09

salmar80 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:02

Betting on who tanks the hardest...

there's even a website dedicated to tanking called Tankathon
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

and they rank the upcoming opponents as well
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/remaining_ ... e_strength
.

Remember that time Chicago was the #1 seed in the NFC after 6 weeks?

BSA wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:09

salmar80 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:02

Betting on who tanks the hardest...

there's even a website dedicated to tanking called Tankathon
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

and they rank the upcoming opponents as well
http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/remaining_ ... e_strength
.

I know it. Many think all the fans of losing or mediocre teams have to look forward to is the firings and higher draft picks.

But... I wasn't there for the dark decades of the Packers, but what I hear from people who did live through those rough times has NEVER ever been about rejoicing getting a high pick. Or doing a toast to how they managed to lose successfully that one year.

Instead people seem to remember whenever that sucky team managed to win, be the disruptor, mess up others' plans. The good players on those bad teams.

Maybe American mentality has changed, and now losing is OK when you call it a "strategy". IF tanking really guaranteed future success, I might even agree. But looking at history, losing more often perpetuates losing.

Personally, I want all Packers and the organization to try their damnest to win every game. If we get a lesser draft spot, deal with it. 1st round receiver didn't exactly save the Eagles, did it?

salmar80 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:28

I wasn't there for the dark decades of the Packers, but what I hear from people who did live through those rough times has NEVER ever been about rejoicing getting a high pick. Or doing a toast to how they managed to lose successfully that one year.

We took every little positive sign as a reason for hope.
" The Pack will be back" was our rally cry for 20 years. But now its more of a business than just a sport and the media has helped fuel the "Super Bowl or bust" mentality. I see it all the time from Packer fans whining about "pissing away Rodgers career..." as if watching over 100+ wins = pissing away.

One season during the doldrums, the Packers began the year 1-7, only to reel off a 7-1 finish. The very best 8-8 that ever happened and we were sure it was a harbinger of better days ahead. It effed up the draft position, but we didn't care about that at all.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/1984.htm

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:12

If you are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you have no benefit to winning games. 0. All youre doing is costing yourself position in the draft. Not just the 1st round but every round which affects your ability to draft better players or manipulate the draft better.

In 2018 the Jaguars beat the Dolphins week 16 to go 5-11. The 49ers finished 4-12. I dont know how the tie breakers would have worked out but imagine if the Jags had that pick instead and get Nick Bosa. Franchise is changed forever. Instead the 49ers land Bosa and go on to the SB.

in what universe do you live in? what do you think will happen if you purposely tank games for draft status? whats probable is that you will be punished to the tune of draft picks, possibly even forfiture of games the following season, not to mention how your own players will revolt, nothing goo9d comes from losing, specially losing on purpose.

BSA wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:41

salmar80 wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:28

I wasn't there for the dark decades of the Packers, but what I hear from people who did live through those rough times has NEVER ever been about rejoicing getting a high pick. Or doing a toast to how they managed to lose successfully that one year.

We took every little positive sign as a reason for hope.
" The Pack will be back" was our rally cry for 20 years. But now its more of a business than just a sport and the media has helped fuel the "Super Bowl or bust" mentality. I see it all the time from Packer fans whining about "pissing away Rodgers career..." as if watching over 100+ wins = pissing away.

One season during the doldrums, the Packers began the year 1-7, only to reel off a 7-1 finish. The very best 8-8 that ever happened and we were sure it was a harbinger of better days ahead. It effed up the draft position, but we didn't care about that at all.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/1984.htm

Yeah, Lupe is wrong on this, completely. Might work in Madden.


Maybe if you are absolutely guaranteed a new coaching staff and/or FO, there is so much benefit in winning and ending the year well.


Saw some study about teams last 4 games of the season being a huge predictor to next seasons record. You build a team by building confidence, buying into the coaching staff, progressing yourself, over a span of years. Not trying to sacrifice player and coaching development trying to move from pick 12 to pick 6.

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:41

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 14:12

If you are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs you have no benefit to winning games. 0. All youre doing is costing yourself position in the draft. Not just the 1st round but every round which affects your ability to draft better players or manipulate the draft better.

In 2018 the Jaguars beat the Dolphins week 16 to go 5-11. The 49ers finished 4-12. I dont know how the tie breakers would have worked out but imagine if the Jags had that pick instead and get Nick Bosa. Franchise is changed forever. Instead the 49ers land Bosa and go on to the SB.

in what universe do you live in? what do you think will happen if you purposely tank games for draft status? whats probable is that you will be punished to the tune of draft picks, possibly even forfiture of games the following season, not to mention how your own players will revolt, nothing goo9d comes from losing, specially losing on purpose.

Teams have tanked on purpose before. What universe do you live in? The league isnt going to punish teams for losing games. Imagine the league forced teams to lose the following game? Are you wearing your clown shoes again yoop?