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Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 19 Aug 2022 23:00
by YoHoChecko
Way earlier in the thread someone asked for recent examples of mid-round rookie receivers who flashed in early camp and carried it over into the season. It *just* occurred to me how similar the hype is to Darnell Mooney. Doubs is a bit bigger and Mooney a bit faster, but I’m not comparing skillets and measurables so much as draft status and early narratives.
I added Mooney in dynasty based on my pre-draft affection for him, and so I’ve followed the reports on him throughout his two years. That’s the caliber of player I think we have in Doubs. A guy who worked his way into the regular rotation and had 600+ yards as a rookie, then was a solid 1,000+ yard starter in year two.
I like to think Doubs is the better of the two, but mostly because I can’t compliment Bears.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 09:24
by Pckfn23
Watkins
Lazard
Cobb
Doubs
Watson
Those are the locks to play WR. Those 5 are making the team to actually step on the field for offensive plays. The next 2 will NEED to be special teams contributors. That is where their primary roll will be, plus there is not a guy below the top 5 that we can say right now looks like a world beater, but is raw.
It's going to be between Toure, Winfree, and Rodgers and honestly we may keep 8.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 09:43
by PackerNation
Glad people are learning things from reading my posts.
And as I said, it's more about the final 69 than the final 53.
Winfree will be on the final 69.
Toure and Rodgers are locks for the 53 for special teams reasons as much as anything.
I do hope Amari Rodgers has a nice showing on Thursday nite to shut some of you haters up about him a bit.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 10:15
by go pak go
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 09:24
Watkins
Lazard
Cobb
Doubs
Watson
Those are the locks to play WR. Those 5 are making the team to actually step on the field for offensive plays. The next 2 will NEED to be special teams contributors. That is where their primary roll will be, plus there is not a guy below the top 5 that we can say right now looks like a world beater, but is raw.
It's going to be between Toure, Winfree, and Rodgers and honestly we may keep 8.
I have been of the opinion this year that it is more than likely we keep 8 WRs compared to 6 WRs.
The Toure drop definitely hurt those odds a bit, but I still stand by my original opinion.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 11:14
by wallyuwl
PackerNation wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 09:43
Winfree will be on the final 69.
No he won't.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 11:25
by YoHoChecko
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 09:24
Watkins
Lazard
Cobb
Doubs
Watson
Those are the locks to play WR. Those 5 are making the team to actually step on the field for offensive plays. The next 2 will NEED to be special teams contributors. That is where their primary roll will be, plus there is not a guy below the top 5 that we can say right now looks like a world beater, but is raw.
It's going to be between Toure, Winfree, and Rodgers and honestly we may keep 8.
What makes you think that Watson and Doubs won't be special teams contributors? Both were fairly good at that in college, no?
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 11:50
by PackerNation
wallyuwl wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 11:14
PackerNation wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 09:43
Winfree will be on the final 69.
No he won't.
For another team to steal him off our PS(You say he will be stolen) he has to be put on there first.
So yes, he will be on the 69 one way or another. If we lose him somehow, so be it. There are ways to deter teams from stealing our practice squad players. I'm not overly concerned. You act like Winfree is the 2nd coming of James Lofton.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 11:55
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 11:25
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 09:24
Watkins
Lazard
Cobb
Doubs
Watson
Those are the locks to play WR. Those 5 are making the team to actually step on the field for offensive plays. The next 2 will NEED to be special teams contributors. That is where their primary roll will be, plus there is not a guy below the top 5 that we can say right now looks like a world beater, but is raw.
It's going to be between Toure, Winfree, and Rodgers and honestly we may keep 8.
What makes you think that Watson and Doubs won't be special teams contributors? Both were fairly good at that in college, no?
I am not saying that. I am saying 6-8 are going to be primarily special teams contributors. That's what will get them on the team.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 12:14
by go pak go
We seem to have a glut of "playable" corners and WRs. So the decision of numbers by position will come down to STs.
I haven't seen Gafford take the return role. Rodgers can be a dual player at KR and PR. He also has shown improvement in the games and so far has had our best return by far. Granted, I don't know how much credit Rodgers can take for that return, but Gafford has been a 20 to 25 yardline guy each time.
So Gafford then would need to contribute on kickoff and punting coverage units to have any real STs value.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 12:51
by PackerNation
A lot of people jumping on the Gute keeping 8 WRs bandwagon I see. Interesting.
I still think 7, but as I said, he did keep 8 in 2018, so I don't completely rule it out.
I am more confident than ever that Toure is making the 53. I bet occasionally, and I would go big on Toure being a lock for the 53. Toure even more of a lock than Amari, and I think Amari is a near lock too. I'm 95% sure on Amari, 100% sure on Toure.
Is it the 30th yet? I want the cuts done and move on to the focus being game one vs. Minnie. Calling 'em Minnie
and spelling it like that triggers that fan base. That is why I do it, just in case any lurkers here. I do smell Barney in here every once in a while.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:15
by YoHoChecko
PackerNation wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 12:51
I am more confident than ever that Toure is making the 53. I bet occasionally, and I would go big on Toure being a lock for the 53. Toure even more of a lock than Amari, and I think Amari is a near lock too. I'm 95% sure on Amari, 100% sure on Toure.
A game in which Toure had one target, dropped an easy big play, and the special teams units accomplished not a single play that merits a standout roster spot made you more convinced than ever that he will make the team?
What kind of confirmation bias are you working with over there?
Like there is just no argument or evidence that Toure
helped his chances over the past few days since you've been posting.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:28
by Yoop
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:15
PackerNation wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 12:51
I am more confident than ever that Toure is making the 53. I bet occasionally, and I would go big on Toure being a lock for the 53. Toure even more of a lock than Amari, and I think Amari is a near lock too. I'm 95% sure on Amari, 100% sure on Toure.
A game in which Toure had one target, dropped an easy big play, and the special teams units accomplished not a single play that merits a standout roster spot made you more convinced than ever that he will make the team?
What kind of confirmation bias are you working with over there?
Like there is just no argument or evidence that Toure
helped his chances over the past few days since you've been posting.
Toure= stone hands, I don't get all this hoopala for the guy, a couple good plays since june and the guy is a lock, and people act as though we can't replace what he's done as a gunner.
look we didn't draft Olave so where doomed anyway
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:33
by YoHoChecko
Yoop wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:28
Toure= stone hands, I don't get all this hoopala for the guy, a couple good plays since june and the guy is a lock, and people act as though we can't replace what he's done as a gunner.
look we didn't draft Olave so where doomed anyway
I don't think he's quite stone hands. He just has a ways to go. Andy Herman said it himself in his latest stock-up/stock-down... who do we think Rodgers was calling out among the young receivers? Doubs was involved, but has a ton of high-end plays, but Toure and Amari are really the only other two likely candidates. And we've seen it go wrong with him.
Toure looks like he can separate. He has made plenty of catches. He routinely gets behind 3rd string defenses. He has a ton of upside. But yeah, like you said, he hasn't done anything as a gunner that isn't replacement level, he's not in the top 5 or 6 WRs in terms of WR quality on the offense, and his draft status does not indicate that he is safe or at any additional risk of being claimed.
He has promise. I like him. But there is so much commotion about him needing to be rostered to play special teams like we don't have other WRs playing on teams and like we don't have 10-12 DBs vying for those same roles. Toure, right now, is a great stash candidate. He's a great person to develop. I think in 2023 he's coming for Cobb and Amari's jobs because he just needs the mental to click.
But why force him into a roster spot for no reason?
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:40
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:33
Yoop wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:28
Toure= stone hands, I don't get all this hoopala for the guy, a couple good plays since june and the guy is a lock, and people act as though we can't replace what he's done as a gunner.
look we didn't draft Olave so where doomed anyway
I don't think he's quite stone hands. He just has a ways to go. Andy Herman said it himself in his latest stock-up/stock-down... who do we think Rodgers was calling out among the young receivers? Doubs was involved, but has a ton of high-end plays, but Toure and Amari are really the only other two likely candidates. And we've seen it go wrong with him.
Toure looks like he can separate. He has made plenty of catches. He routinely gets behind 3rd string defenses. He has a ton of upside. But yeah, like you said, he hasn't done anything as a gunner that isn't replacement level, he's not in the top 5 or 6 WRs in terms of WR quality on the offense, and his draft status does not indicate that he is safe or at any additional risk of being claimed.
He has promise. I like him. But there is so much commotion about him needing to be rostered to play special teams like we don't have other WRs playing on teams and like we don't have 10-12 DBs vying for those same roles. Toure, right now, is a great stash candidate. He's a great person to develop. I think in 2023 he's coming for Cobb and Amari's jobs because he just needs the mental to click.
But why force him into a roster spot for no reason?
I mean if we are being real here, the commotion is coming from one guy and me supplanting that commotion with the comment of "we need a gunner" when I self admittedly do not have any clue who our potential gunners on the team even are.
WR 6 - 8 will get no snaps at WR anyways. WR 4 - 5 will get a little bit of snaps but nothing that would really sway a game.
Keeping that in mind, I always look at these spots with potential and STs in mind. The only guy right now in the WR who looks like the coaches have any real trust on STs is Rodgers who appears in my mind to be the leader for PR and could be justified to be the KR as well.
I think what makes the WR discussion interesting this year is the guy who is slotted at #5/#6 on the roster (Winfree), I believe could legit get #3/#4 WR playing time. Because I think he is that good and deserves it. Especially with Watson likely being on the sideline a lot to start the season.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:48
by PackerNation
Keep thinking Toure won't make the roster.
Please keep thinking that..haha
Tell Rich Bisaccia you aren't impressed with Toure on teams. He may listen. What I saw on Ray Nitschke tells me diff.
Again, please bet against him making the roster. He can be this forums new Amari.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:52
by Acrobat
PackerNation wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:48
Keep thinking Toure won't make the roster.
Please keep thinking that..haha
Tell Rich Bisaccia you aren't impressed with Toure on teams. He may listen. What I saw on Ray Nitschke tells me diff.
Again, please bet against him making the roster. He can be this forums new Amari.
Can we possibly have an open mind and discuss both scenarios where it either makes sense or does it have to be an extreme viewpoint?
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:53
by YoHoChecko
go pak go wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:40
I mean if we are being real here, the commotion is coming from one guy and me supplanting that commotion with the comment of "we need a gunner" when I self admittedly do not have any clue who our potential gunners on the team even are.
WR 6 - 8 will get no snaps at WR anyways. WR 4 - 5 will get a little bit of snaps but nothing that would really sway a game.
Keeping that in mind, I always look at these spots with potential and STs in mind. The only guy right now in the WR who looks like the coaches have any real trust on STs is Rodgers who appears in my mind to be the leader for PR and could be justified to be the KR as well.
I think what makes the WR discussion interesting this year is the guy who is slotted at #5/#6 on the roster (Winfree), I believe could legit get #3/#4 WR playing time. Because I think he is that good and deserves it. Especially with Watson likely being on the sideline a lot to start the season.
I don't think we can chalk up "Toure should make the roster" to PackerNation. Plenty of people have advocated for him.
But yes, that last paragraph of yours. Winfree CLEARLY is playing in the starting rotation, earning the opportunity to get snaps with the offense throughout this season. He has been the 3rd or 4th best WR in any given practice, game, or week, all throughout camp (Watkins, Lazard, Doubs in that mix). And people just can't for the life of them adjust their priors to understand that he's safe.
Like we should be LIVID if the front office,
this year especially, is thinking of cutting our 3rd or 4th best WR right now in order to keep a promising young guy or two who might contribute more on special teams. LIVID. But not only are people not upset about it. They're mostly thinking "yeah, that makes sense."
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 13:57
by PackerNation
Yeah cuz, "Amari is toast", "Amari Sucks" "Ok, I've decided Amari is getting cut"
Are such open minded viewpoints.
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 14:02
by Yoop
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:33
Yoop wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:28
Toure= stone hands, I don't get all this hoopala for the guy, a couple good plays since june and the guy is a lock, and people act as though we can't replace what he's done as a gunner.
look we didn't draft Olave so where doomed anyway
I don't think he's quite stone hands. He just has a ways to go. Andy Herman said it himself in his latest stock-up/stock-down... who do we think Rodgers was calling out among the young receivers? Doubs was involved, but has a ton of high-end plays, but Toure and Amari are really the only other two likely candidates. And we've seen it go wrong with him.
Toure looks like he can separate. He has made plenty of catches. He routinely gets behind 3rd string defenses. He has a ton of upside. But yeah, like you said, he hasn't done anything as a gunner that isn't replacement level, he's not in the top 5 or 6 WRs in terms of WR quality on the offense, and his draft status does not indicate that he is safe or at any additional risk of being claimed.
He has promise. I like him. But there is so much commotion about him needing to be rostered to play special teams like we don't have other WRs playing on teams and like we don't have 10-12 DBs vying for those same roles. Toure, right now, is a great stash candidate. He's a great person to develop. I think in 2023 he's coming for Cobb and Amari's jobs because he just needs the mental to click.
But why force him into a roster spot for no reason?
stone hands was a bit harsh, I admit, but every year we have a Toure kind of guy, we fall in love with a play or two they make, but lack consistency, so they end up on the PS, or cut, that was mostly the point I failed to make, I don't dislike the guy, simply trying to be realistic.
again I have to go back to how hard it is for a fan like us to know actually how the staff feels when it comes down to these last roster spots, and what they say to beat writers is usually ambiguous at best, the talent level of these players is often near impossible to distinguish minus a lot of film study, I guess it was rude to just say "guessing" so I'll add educated/ informed guessing so not to insult anyone, and it is fun, we teach ourselves to know our players better
Re: 2022 WR's
Posted: 22 Aug 2022 14:48
by PackerNation
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:53
go pak go wrote: ↑22 Aug 2022 13:40
I mean if we are being real here, the commotion is coming from one guy and me supplanting that commotion with the comment of "we need a gunner" when I self admittedly do not have any clue who our potential gunners on the team even are.
WR 6 - 8 will get no snaps at WR anyways. WR 4 - 5 will get a little bit of snaps but nothing that would really sway a game.
Keeping that in mind, I always look at these spots with potential and STs in mind. The only guy right now in the WR who looks like the coaches have any real trust on STs is Rodgers who appears in my mind to be the leader for PR and could be justified to be the KR as well.
I think what makes the WR discussion interesting this year is the guy who is slotted at #5/#6 on the roster (Winfree), I believe could legit get #3/#4 WR playing time. Because I think he is that good and deserves it. Especially with Watson likely being on the sideline a lot to start the season.
I don't think we can chalk up "Toure should make the roster" to PackerNation. Plenty of people have advocated for him.
But yes, that last paragraph of yours. Winfree CLEARLY is playing in the starting rotation, earning the opportunity to get snaps with the offense throughout this season. He has been the 3rd or 4th best WR in any given practice, game, or week, all throughout camp (Watkins, Lazard, Doubs in that mix). And people just can't for the life of them adjust their priors to understand that he's safe.
Like we should be LIVID if the front office,
this year especially, is thinking of cutting our 3rd or 4th best WR right now in order to keep a promising young guy or two who might contribute more on special teams. LIVID. But not only are people not upset about it. They're mostly thinking "yeah, that makes sense."
Wait, you are saying Winfree is the 3rd or 4th best WR on the roster?
Lazard
Sammy
Doubs
Cobb
There is 4 I like better. And I could add more, but you said 3rd or fourth. Certainly like Watson more than Winfree as well.
Yes, I feel Toure is more valuable to the roster than Winfree because of his special teams prowess as a gunner. A very important position on teams. Special teams matters and Toure is more valuable there than Winfree. Some of you keep saying Toure is nothing special on teams. I am quite confident you never saw this team practice live if you have that opinion.
Winfree isn't going to be let go if Gute can help it. Again, as Gute says, it's about the 69 more than just the 53.
I like Winfree too, but I also like not losing games because of special teams. Bisaccia has a ways to go to get that unit ticking, but taking away cats like Toure aren't going to get him there. Players on the lower part of depth charts need to add value on special teams. That gets you a roster spot.
and spelling it like that triggers that fan base. That is why I do it, just in case any lurkers here. I do smell Barney in here every once in a while.