Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 08:57

Rodgers ability elevates the play of not just receivers but almost everyone on offense, Rodger makes receivers better then almost any other QB could, do you think Adams would be best in league with some other QB? doubtful.

See, I actually want Adams to be there for whoever comes next at WR. I think the careers of any WR we draft next year would be greatly enhanced by playing with Adams--as much as it would by playing with Rodgers. Adams will show the example of how to work, how to study, how to watch film, how to release. He's such a true leader and veteran presence for that room now. Not to mention, make them complementary players in his early year(s) while Adams draws the attention.

Rodgers will take 3 years to trust them before he starts making them look like magic.

I almost wish that we could franchise Adams and go big on WRs in the draft to get that one year of overlap, but that's actually the least likely thing, given how it forces the entire cost to be felt in the single year of the tag, and next year is our worst crunch year.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 09:02

Yoop wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 08:57

Rodgers ability elevates the play of not just receivers but almost everyone on offense, Rodger makes receivers better then almost any other QB could, do you think Adams would be best in league with some other QB? doubtful.

See, I actually want Adams to be there for whoever comes next at WR. I think the careers of any WR we draft next year would be greatly enhanced by playing with Adams--as much as it would by playing with Rodgers. Adams will show the example of how to work, how to study, how to watch film, how to release. He's such a true leader and veteran presence for that room now. Not to mention, make them complementary players in his early year(s) while Adams draws the attention.

Rodgers will take 3 years to trust them before he starts making them look like magic.

I almost wish that we could franchise Adams and go big on WRs in the draft to get that one year of overlap, but that's actually the least likely thing, given how it forces the entire cost to be felt in the single year of the tag, and next year is our worst crunch year.

I'd love to keep Adams as well, but he's to young not to go to whomever offers the most, I also have not bought into Rodgers holding receivers back until they prove themselves or what ever that theory is Yoho, I think some of that was because of McCarthy and the fact that we had very good talent already at the position, look at Adams for instance, he played right away, wee've also seen Amari quite a bit already, if the receiver is talented I think Rodgers will work him in quickly, and Lafluer doesn't seem anything like McCarthy.

also Rodgers has a reputation of actually helping players adapt quickly, I think even Greg Jennings said that and I know Cobb did, I think for whatever reason Rodgers gets a bad rap about this stuff, possibly because he's a stern task master, I remeber he said if they screw up in practice then he's less willing to count on them in games, which only makes sense to me.

Yoop wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 08:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 08:38

And I apologize to the forum for using the word "impossible" on Page 6 of this thread. (to be fair, I kept thinking I said "nearly impossible")

I absolutely hate it when I use words that are slightly off that allow windows for tangent arguments. I agree. Improbable is a better word than impossible. Though materially both words are very similar in weight in this discussion.

I hate absolutes

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

Foosball wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:40

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

The franchise tag would have to be slapped on Adams before the new league year begins.

Rodgers cannot be traded until after the new league year begins.

Teams must be under the cap by the new league year.

Thus, in order to trade Rodgers and franchise Adams, you would have to clear enough cap space to for Rodgers' contract AND Adams' franchise tag under the cap. If you accomplish that, then it starts to look silly not to keep them both, unless you have a lot of agreements in principle with your own departing free agents like Tonyan I guess, to sign officially after the Rodgers trade takes place, but even that seems dicey because a) it's not official until it's official; and b) our cap problems don't stem very much from pending free agents we need to re-sign other than Adams. They stem from ongoing contracts we need to renegotiate or get rid of.

Foosball wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:40

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

I did a little simulation on my own if that happens. They would have to first get enough under the cap for the tag to be applied. A lot of cuts would still need to be made.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:48

Foosball wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:40

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

I did a little simulation on my own if that happens. They would have to first get enough under the cap for the tag to be applied. A lot of cuts would still need to be made.

IF we do like a little one year blow up, get rid a bunch of aging vet contracts, I would like to see them find a way to tag and trade Adams too. I would imagine should be able to get a top 2nd round pick for him.

BF004 wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 13:56

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:48

Foosball wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:40

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

I did a little simulation on my own if that happens. They would have to first get enough under the cap for the tag to be applied. A lot of cuts would still need to be made.

IF we do like a little one year blow up, get rid a bunch of aging vet contracts, I would like to see them find a way to tag and trade Adams too. I would imagine should be able to get a top 2nd round pick for him.

Yeah I had send the poor guy to the Jets who have 2 1sts and 2 2nds. Figured their 2nd was a fair deal.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:45

Foosball wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 12:40

If The Packers do trade Rodgers and Adams wants to follow, the Packers could slap the franchise tag on him. Or use it as a negotiating tool to keep Adams in GB and give him a contract. And yes pay the man what he is worth.

The franchise tag would have to be slapped on Adams before the new league year begins.

Rodgers cannot be traded until after the new league year begins.

Teams must be under the cap by the new league year.

Thus, in order to trade Rodgers and franchise Adams, you would have to clear enough cap space to for Rodgers' contract AND Adams' franchise tag under the cap. If you accomplish that, then it starts to look silly not to keep them both, unless you have a lot of agreements in principle with your own departing free agents like Tonyan I guess, to sign officially after the Rodgers trade takes place, but even that seems dicey because a) it's not official until it's official; and b) our cap problems don't stem very much from pending free agents we need to re-sign other than Adams. They stem from ongoing contracts we need to renegotiate or get rid of.

I know some people don't care, but a older player such as Adams or Rodgers would go ballistic if we tagged them, there whole concern at this stage of there career is finding a team that can compete for all the marbles in the last few years they have left, with Adams the money seems to matter quite a bit, with Rodgers it seems more about supporting cast, imo it would seem harder to satisfy Adams, we just don't have the 25 mil. to pay him.

Rodgers is a different story, even though he'll cost more, the bang for buck imo makes him a better choice.

as I said, it is time to rebuild the WR position, almost every one we now have is due a raise, are they worth what they will want? imo thats a debate worth having, MVS has a skill set that typically does get over paid, Lazards claim to fame is his blocking ability, so he might be a reasonable resign, Tonyan is having a down years as far as receptions which could keep his price lower, Taylor and the rest would be cheap, but even vet minimum is probably more then there worth, minus Adams we need to go shopping for WR's this off season, possibly even pick up a UFA vet with some proven credibility, come on Guty give Rodgers the keys to the kingdom

I wouldnt blame Adams either way. You only have a short window to make generational wealth in the NFL and he has put himself in position to make that....But I think alot of the current talk of demanding to be highest paid WR could just be posturing to let the Packers know hes not gonna be low balled. Actually leaving to go get the biggest check possible may or may not be something he wants to do if the highest bidder is a perpetual dumpster fire organization. That said, when it all comes down to it i wonder if Adams..

would rather take a little less and play for the Packers or any other true contender/win some games
or
Potentially go 3-14 for the rest of his career somewhere that he can be the highest paid WR in the league.

Either way is respectable to me, I just wonder if once the posturing is over if he would actually rather prefer that. Will be interesting to see.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 14:17

I wouldnt blame Adams either way. You only have a short window to make generational wealth in the NFL and he has put himself in position to make that....But I think alot of the current talk of demanding to be highest paid WR could just be posturing to let the Packers know hes not gonna be low balled. Actually leaving to go get the biggest check possible may or may not be something he wants to do if the highest bidder is a perpetual dumpster fire organization. That said, when it all comes down to it i wonder if Adams..

would rather take a little less and play for the Packers or any other true contender/win some games
or
Potentially go 3-14 for the rest of his career somewhere that he can be the highest paid WR in the league.

Either way is respectable to me, I just wonder if once the posturing is over if he would actually rather prefer that. Will be interesting to see.

For me, the interesting question is whether the Packers elect to keep Adams or Alexander. Even after Rodgers is gone, I do not see how they can keep both. Or to keep 2nd tier guys like Jenkins, Tonyan, Savage, etc.

If the question is either Alexander or Player X, my answer is Jaire Alexander. Every time. No matter who Player X is.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

23 Oct 2021 01:59

Drj820 wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 14:17

I wouldnt blame Adams either way. You only have a short window to make generational wealth in the NFL and he has put himself in position to make that....But I think alot of the current talk of demanding to be highest paid WR could just be posturing to let the Packers know hes not gonna be low balled. Actually leaving to go get the biggest check possible may or may not be something he wants to do if the highest bidder is a perpetual dumpster fire organization. That said, when it all comes down to it i wonder if Adams..

would rather take a little less and play for the Packers or any other true contender/win some games
or
Potentially go 3-14 for the rest of his career somewhere that he can be the highest paid WR in the league.

Either way is respectable to me, I just wonder if once the posturing is over if he would actually rather prefer that. Will be interesting to see.

For me, the interesting question is whether the Packers elect to keep Adams or Alexander. Even after Rodgers is gone, I do not see how they can keep both. Or to keep 2nd tier guys like Jenkins, Tonyan, Savage, etc.

You keep Alexander if it’s a choice. The age gap is significant. It is much harder to find all pro caliber CBs than it is to find WRs.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

23 Oct 2021 01:59

Drj820 wrote: ↑

22 Oct 2021 14:17

I wouldnt blame Adams either way. You only have a short window to make generational wealth in the NFL and he has put himself in position to make that....But I think alot of the current talk of demanding to be highest paid WR could just be posturing to let the Packers know hes not gonna be low balled. Actually leaving to go get the biggest check possible may or may not be something he wants to do if the highest bidder is a perpetual dumpster fire organization. That said, when it all comes down to it i wonder if Adams..

would rather take a little less and play for the Packers or any other true contender/win some games
or
Potentially go 3-14 for the rest of his career somewhere that he can be the highest paid WR in the league.

Either way is respectable to me, I just wonder if once the posturing is over if he would actually rather prefer that. Will be interesting to see.

For me, the interesting question is whether the Packers elect to keep Adams or Alexander. Even after Rodgers is gone, I do not see how they can keep both. Or to keep 2nd tier guys like Jenkins, Tonyan, Savage, etc.

when it comes to these sorts of things, most people including myself lack 20/20 vision

Yeah, Jaire. No question. Much younger, and CB > WR in positional value if you ask me. I'd trade a lot of currently healthy/active members of our roster to have him back right now.

Hands down keep the pro bowl CB Jaire

Here's my proposal to get a deal done:
It's, in reality, a 4 year deal at $23 million per year. That makes Davante the highest paid WR in the league by most standards.

It's, on paper, a 6 year deal at $27.6 million per year. That makes Davante the highest-paid WR in the league in new money/new years terms.

The guaranteed money (signing bonus, first two years' salary) comes in a hair under 40%, fitting Packers contract practices.

The 3rd year is not guaranteed, but releasing him or trading him after the second year creates $33M in dead money versus a $27M cap hit, gives him a strong likelihood of getting the 3rd year he may be seeking as an essential guarantee, while a post-June 1st cut makes a move at that juncture break-even, essentially saying we would only let him walk before year 3 is we wanted to pay him not to play here.

After the 3rd year, we're looking at an out that would cause either a $22 M dead cap hit (pre-June 1) or a $$16.5M cap hit (post June 1st) versus a cap hit of $32M and so some savings are really available, if needed.

But the most obvious out is after year 4, where he can be released or traded to save $25.5 million (pre-June 1st), or designated post June 1 to save $31 million and push $5.5M in dead cap into the next year.


If the cap grows by 5% a year from 2022 (conservative by historical standards and the TV deal money kicking in), Adams never counts more than 14.5% of the cap in any given year, and only 13.5% of cap within the first 4 years.

If the cap grows by 7% a year from 2022 (close to league average), Adams never counts above 13.4% of the cap, 12.6% within the first 4 years.

If the cap grows by 10% a year (optimistic but realistic with the new tv deals), Adams stays below 12% of the cap throughout the deal.


I'm not in a place (in-season) where I want to think about working through all the tradeoffs that may need to be made to keep this guy, but certainly, Jenkins, Alexander, and Adams are affordable if other moves are made elsewhere.

Obvi, this is a very basic version of this type of contractual work. I didn't use any renegotiations or anything (I think the year 5 salary might be better served with a big option bonus or something, but whatevs). But it's the best I could do to meet our wants (4 years at the real highest-paid level) versus his (respect of the new money/new year level), the standard practice of guarantees, the desire for him to have 3 years here, etc.

I think this can work, maybe, possibly.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

25 Oct 2021 09:19

Here's my proposal to get a deal done:

It's, in reality, a 4 year deal at $23 million per year. That makes Davante the highest paid WR in the league by most standards.

It's, on paper, a 6 year deal at $27.6 million per year. That makes Davante the highest-paid WR in the league in new money/new years terms.

I actually messed up and didn't count the 5th year of signing bonus in the annual average for the first 4 years, so the first-4 is higher than $23M and I could reconfigure the last few years to make it even more amenable, but not so much that the 5th and 6th year become completely silly season. OMG this is so much better! (Assuming Adams has any interest in letting us add basically dummy years, but as you can see from the cap growth models, they aren't as dummy as they feel in nominal terms right now)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I would do that deal.

I would also add the name D'Vondre Campbell into a 3 - 4 year deal as becoming "priority" for us. Campbell's market will be super interesting.

On one hand, this is a one year wonder who has sucked everywhere he has gone minus a short time in ATL where he was good.

On the other hand, this is currently a top top 5 ILB in the conference right now. He is as impactful if not more impactful than the likes of Kendricks, Wagner, Warner, and the Bucs guys. He is that good this season.

File this under the “for what it’s worth” category:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Packers are likely to place the franchise tag on Davante Adams in 2022.

Adams is a free agent at the end of the year and has wanted to be the league's highest-paid wide receiver for some time. With 28 touchdowns and over 2,700 receiving yards in the past two years, there's no doubt that he deserves the hefty contract he's asking for. The Packers are projected to be tens of millions of dollars over the cap next year but Aaron Rodgers' status with the team could change things. Even if Rodgers and the Packers part ways, the team appears set on keeping its star receiver.