Packers Huddle

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:19

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:50

First of all that group of receivers is considerably better than what we have. Bennett is better than Tonyan. Edelman and Amendola are both better than anything we have to offer.

The other thing is Brady’s defenses were all significantly better and allowed him to stick around in close games or play with a lead. This team gives away points on early drives and then wears down in the second half.

I was responding to the idea that Brady would bitch at the FO if he was only given one quality receiver. Yet he basically only had one receiver in 2016.

And no, he did not bellyache to his boss about the lack of weapons and point the finger at everywhere but himself (like Rodgers), he just decided to nut up and make it work.

Edelman, a slot receiver, is not the difference between winning a SuperBowl and being sub-.500. The QB is. Rodgers had way better than that for years in Adams.

Rodgers can't hold Brady's jockstrap.

You are off base here about brady. Brady left NE when and only when he didnt think they had a viable roster to win a super bowl. Throughout his career there he took less money all to win a title. He took less money because he was confident the Pats could assemble a team he could win with. This always included the best TE in the league at the time Gronk, maybe a Randy Moss, Maybe receivers that were PERFECT for the scheme, a rotation of backs that could catch passes....

But it also ALWAYS included something Rodgers hasnt had much of...elite special teams and an elite defense. year after year two thirds of the game was well covered for Brady. He just had to have the patience to control the ball and trust the defense, special teams, and his coaches. And he had this patience because winning was more important than anything to Brady. He would hand the ball of 40x a game if that would equal a Super bowl.

This is where Rodgers is different. Hes admitted he gets bored with this. He wants to throw long balls. He lacks patience. he wants his stats.

Brady didnt "nut up" and make it work because he had to, he knew they had a team that could win if he played a certain way. And he was more than happy to play that way.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:02

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:59

I mean every team has injuries and we’ve been VERY lucky in that dept under Lafleur.

Except for last year and this year...

key positional ones to starters, Bahk, Jenkins, are hard to replace, so are Watkins, WAtson, Lazard, Cobb, thats most of the receiver core,

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:34

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:19

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:50

First of all that group of receivers is considerably better than what we have. Bennett is better than Tonyan. Edelman and Amendola are both better than anything we have to offer.

The other thing is Brady’s defenses were all significantly better and allowed him to stick around in close games or play with a lead. This team gives away points on early drives and then wears down in the second half.

I was responding to the idea that Brady would bitch at the FO if he was only given one quality receiver. Yet he basically only had one receiver in 2016.

And no, he did not bellyache to his boss about the lack of weapons and point the finger at everywhere but himself (like Rodgers), he just decided to nut up and make it work.

Edelman, a slot receiver, is not the difference between winning a SuperBowl and being sub-.500. The QB is. Rodgers had way better than that for years in Adams.

Rodgers can't hold Brady's jockstrap.

You are off base here about brady. Brady left NE when and only when he didnt think they had a viable roster to win a super bowl. Throughout his career there he took less money all to win a title. He took less money because he was confident the Pats could assemble a team he could win with. This always included the best TE in the league at the time Gronk, maybe a Randy Moss, Maybe receivers that were PERFECT for the scheme, a rotation of backs that could catch passes....

But it also ALWAYS included something Rodgers hasnt had much of...elite special teams and an elite defense. year after year two thirds of the game was well covered for Brady. He just had to have the patience to control the ball and trust the defense, special teams, and his coaches. And he had this patience because winning was more important than anything to Brady. He would hand the ball of 40x a game if that would equal a Super bowl.

This is where Rodgers is different. Hes admitted he gets bored with this. He wants to throw long balls. He lacks patience. he wants his stats.

Brady didnt "nut up" and make it work because he had to, he knew they had a team that could win if he played a certain way. And he was more than happy to play that way.

Labrev simply will not admit that Rodgers has hosted this trick or treat party in spite of the negligence of the GM's to provide more tasty candy, such a travesty has not gone un noticed by some of us Packer fans

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 13:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:02

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:59

I mean every team has injuries and we’ve been VERY lucky in that dept under Lafleur.

Except for last year and this year...

key positional ones to starters, Bahk, Jenkins, are hard to replace, so are Watkins, WAtson, Lazard, Cobb, thats most of the receiver core,

Watkins Watson Cobb and lazard were the most predictable injuries in history

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 13:40

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 13:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:02

Except for last year and this year...

key positional ones to starters, Bahk, Jenkins, are hard to replace, so are Watkins, WAtson, Lazard, Cobb, thats most of the receiver core,

Watkins Watson Cobb and lazard were the most predictable injuries in history

I get Watkins and Cobb. I don't get why you are lumping Lazard and Watson in this.

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:55

I get you hate Rodgers and his contract, but ya better get used to it,

Before it was "ohhh you damn millennials, wait til you suffer losing seasons because of QB play!" and now that we're in a losing season (with bad QB play) it's "well ya better get used to it!"

How about YOU get used to sub-par receivers, if you are going to defend Rodgers's contract? Or if not receivers, then sub-par defense, or whatever part of the roster happens to be sub-par at any given time -- doesn't matter which position, receiver or otherwise, there isn't enough money to be good at every position when you have an Elite QB contract on the books.

As I see it, I have every right to complain because I did not support this. You on the other hand want it both ways, Elite QB *and* good WRs *and* good defense.

Rodger has become a go to scape goat for the negligence of our GM.

How is it negligence of our GM when Rodgers has been given better talent -- if not this year then definitely previous years -- than what Brady was given and went all the way with *and* is the highest paid player ever (i.e. we are paying him like he's the best to ever play, when they actual best to ever play, TB12, was able to go the distance with less).

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:14

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 11:55

I get you hate Rodgers and his contract, but ya better get used to it,

Before it was "ohhh you damn millennials, wait til you suffer losing seasons because of QB play!" and now that we're in a losing season (with bad QB play) it's "well ya better get used to it!"

How about YOU get used to sub-par receivers, if you are going to defend Rodgers's contract? Or if not receivers, then sub-par defense, or whatever part of the roster happens to be sub-par at any given time -- doesn't matter which position, receiver or otherwise, there isn't enough money to be good at every position when you have an Elite QB contract on the books.

As I see it, I have every right to complain because I did not support this. You on the other hand want it both ways, Elite QB *and* good WRs *and* good defense.

Rodger has become a go to scape goat for the negligence of our GM.

How is it negligence of our GM when Rodgers has been given better talent -- if not this year then definitely previous years -- than what Brady was given and went all the way with *and* is the highest paid player ever (i.e. we are paying him like he's the best to ever play, when they actual best to ever play, TB12, was able to go the distance with less).

Don’t play dumb. Defense wins championships. Where Rodgers has played with better offensive talent the better part of his career compared to Brady the Patriots have had significantly better defenses and special teams almost every single year Rodgers was in the league.

If I’m Rodgers I’m taking as much money as I can because lord knows the GMs during his time are still going to $%@# it up whether he’s paid or not.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 12:34

You are off base here about brady. Brady left NE when and only when he didnt think they had a viable roster to win a super bowl.

He had like just taken them to a SuperBowl two seasons ago and made the playoffs the following year. Gronk was with him wherever he'd go.

I don't buy that Brady left because didn't think he could keep taking that team the distance, especially given the fact he was all but guaranteed a 1 or 2 seed every year given how weak his division and conference always were.

What Brady did clearly want was to have more say in running the team, and that was never gonna happen under Belichick. So he went to Tampa, and they basically let him do whatever he wants, to a point where they fired a coach who had just taken them to the playoffs, and only one season after said coach won them a SuperBowl!

But it sounds like he actually wanted to go to Miami, which has less talent than Tampa, but he would have gotten to own the team, which tends to prove that he cared more about control than roster talent.

Throughout his career there he took less money all to win a title. He took less money because he was confident the Pats could assemble a team he could win with.

Actually, that isn't true of him "throughout"<sic> his career. He was the highest paid player ever circa 2011 and would be for a few years. In terms of lifetime earnings, he is second only to... Aaron Rodgers.

This always included the best TE in the league at the time Gronk, maybe a Randy Moss, Maybe receivers that were PERFECT for the scheme, a rotation of backs that could catch passes....

It's easy to say the receivers were perfect when they were playing for Brady (Belichick), the guy was actually an example of a QB that makes scrubs look good.

Rodgers has had *way* better weapons over the breadth of his career than Brady. 2011 Packers WRs > 2020 Bucs WRs. Prime Adams for five years > Moss for one. After Moss and the Bucs WRs (who he has only barely played with) and after Gronk, the next best guys are glorified slot receivers like Welker and Edelman. Jordy, Jennings, even Driver and Cobb were better than those guys.

Favre can actually complain about not being given enough weapons. In his case, that was actually true. It's not true of Rodgers though. He has been spoiled senseless and now he has no idea how to function without a star WR.

The bottom line I'm saying here is this: nobody cares how unspectacular Brady's receivers were because they got the job done. Similarly, nobody cares that Rodgers and his receivers have a way longer highlight reel than Brady's because he didn't get the job done. Some fans wrongly believe it's because he didn't have enough weapons. Again, Rodgers's longer highlight reel and Brady's rings are the proof against that.

But it also ALWAYS included something Rodgers hasnt had much of...elite special teams and an elite defense. year after year two thirds of the game was well covered for Brady. He just had to have the patience to control the ball and trust the defense, special teams, and his coaches. And he had this patience because winning was more important than anything to Brady. He would hand the ball of 40x a game if that would equal a Super bowl.

This is where Rodgers is different. Hes admitted he gets bored with this. He wants to throw long balls. He lacks patience. he wants his stats.

Brady didnt "nut up" and make it work because he had to, he knew they had a team that could win if he played a certain way. And he was more than happy to play that way.

Well on that much, we are agreed, but I think Rodgers had at least two or three teams that he should have had similar certainty would get him some rings if he played the way he needed to play, or took less money like Brady did, two of which would have come at Brady's expense and put him in the convo for best ever. That ship has sailed, though.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:34

Don’t play dumb. Defense wins championships. Where Rodgers has played with better offensive talent the better part of his career compared to Brady the Patriots have had significantly better defenses and special teams almost every single year Rodgers was in the league.

Not playing dumb, just can't keep up with all the contradictory assertions (lame excuses tend to undermine each other).

So, a lack of offensive talent is NOT what has kept Rodgers from winning more championships. Noted.

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:44

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:34

Don’t play dumb. Defense wins championships. Where Rodgers has played with better offensive talent the better part of his career compared to Brady the Patriots have had significantly better defenses and special teams almost every single year Rodgers was in the league.

Not playing dumb, just can't keep up with all the contradictory assertions (lame excuses tend to undermine each other).

So, a lack of offensive talent is NOT what has kept Rodgers from winning more championships. Noted.

Actually it’s not. Lack defense has kept him from winning more.

Raptorman wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 21:11

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:44

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:34

Don’t play dumb. Defense wins championships. Where Rodgers has played with better offensive talent the better part of his career compared to Brady the Patriots have had significantly better defenses and special teams almost every single year Rodgers was in the league.

Not playing dumb, just can't keep up with all the contradictory assertions (lame excuses tend to undermine each other).

So, a lack of offensive talent is NOT what has kept Rodgers from winning more championships. Noted.

Actually it’s not. Lack defense has kept him from winning more.

pretty obvious lol

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:07

Raptorman wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 21:11

Labrev wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 15:44

Not playing dumb, just can't keep up with all the contradictory assertions (lame excuses tend to undermine each other).

So, a lack of offensive talent is NOT what has kept Rodgers from winning more championships. Noted.

Actually it’s not. Lack defense has kept him from winning more.

pretty obvious lol

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Just score 23 points in all these games in regulation and Rodgers is moving to the next round. That's 4 seasons out of the 9 playoff appearances after the SB that the defense showed up and the Packers still lost.

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:15

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Then why does my mind immediately go to Kaepernick running all over the frozen Tundra, HaHa misplaying a 2-point conversion, Burnett laying down, and Tramon getting beat in O.T., Randall not knowing the coverage, and a game winning drive pounded down our throat on the ground?

Defense might have statistically held up those days, but they were abused in the biggest moments, badly.

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:41

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:15

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Then why does my mind immediately go to Kaepernick running all over the frozen Tundra, HaHa misplaying a 2-point conversion, Burnett laying down, and Tramon getting beat in O.T., Randall not knowing the coverage, and a game winning drive pounded down our throat on the ground?

Defense might have statistically held up those days, but they were abused in the biggest moments, badly.

I'm not looking at stats. I'm looking at raw points at the end of 4 quarters.

2013 - 49ers score 20
2014 - Seattle scores 22 (defense also gives offense plenty of opportunity with 5 turnovers)
2015 - Cardinals score 20
2021 - 49ers score 13 and defense allows 6

For a team that is offensive minded....that is absolutely winning defense. You tell me those scores with us having the most talented player of all time and I am confident we win every game.

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:15

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:07

Raptorman wrote: ↑

02 Nov 2022 21:11

Actually it’s not. Lack defense has kept him from winning more.

pretty obvious lol

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Just score 23 points in all these games in regulation and Rodgers is moving to the next round. That's 4 seasons out of the 9 playoff appearances after the SB that the defense showed up and the Packers still lost.

I am not jumping into either side of this discussion, but I was at the 2015 playoff game.

The D was OK giving up 20 points in regulation and 26 overall to the Cardinals.

But the Packers scoring 20 points in regulation while throwing to Jeff Janis, Jared Abbrederis, Richard Rodgers, and John Kuhn who were the top 4 receivers in the game was as miraculous that night as the back to back Hail Marys to Janis were to end the game.

That 2015 team was down Jordy, Cobb, Davante Adams, and by the end of the game James Jones and Randall Cobb who combined for 0 catches. It had no business winning a playoff game.

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:49

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:15

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:07

pretty obvious lol

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Just score 23 points in all these games in regulation and Rodgers is moving to the next round. That's 4 seasons out of the 9 playoff appearances after the SB that the defense showed up and the Packers still lost.

I am not jumping into either side of this discussion, but I was at the 2015 playoff game.

The D was OK giving up 20 points in regulation and 26 overall to the Cardinals.

But the Packers scoring 20 points in regulation while throwing to Jeff Janis, Jared Abbrederis, Richard Rodgers, and John Kuhn who were the top 4 receivers in the game was as miraculous that night as the back to back Hail Marys to Janis were to end the game.

That 2015 team was down Jordy, Cobb, Davante Adams, and by the end of the game James Jones and Randall Cobb who combined for 0 catches. It had no business winning a playoff game.

Right. But the original point before others got involved is the defense held Rodgers back. "It was so obvious"

Dolphins PAID Chubb!

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:49

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:41

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 09:15

Defense did their job in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2021.

Then why does my mind immediately go to Kaepernick running all over the frozen Tundra, HaHa misplaying a 2-point conversion, Burnett laying down, and Tramon getting beat in O.T., Randall not knowing the coverage, and a game winning drive pounded down our throat on the ground?

Defense might have statistically held up those days, but they were abused in the biggest moments, badly.

I'm not looking at stats. I'm looking at raw points at the end of 4 quarters.

2013 - 49ers score 20
2014 - Seattle scores 22 (defense also gives offense plenty of opportunity with 5 turnovers)
2015 - Cardinals score 20
2021 - 49ers score 13 and defense allows 6

For a team that is offensive minded....that is absolutely winning defense. You tell me those scores with us having the most talented player of all time and I am confident we win every game.

I get it. I'm just saying that in every single one of those scenarios the defense gave up the winning points on the final drive.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 10:57

Dolphins PAID Chubb!

Gary is going to be expensive.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

03 Nov 2022 10:57

Dolphins PAID Chubb!

They sure did.