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It's not even a valid hypothetical. Better or not, we were never going to keep Blake for what he got paid and thank goodness we didn't. I beat the drum that Kirksey would be an upgrade. Guilty. He hasn't been. I don't think the gap is as big as some of you are making it out to be, but it's clear neither guy was the answer. Back to the drawing board and swing again.
The performance gap is wide, very wide. Martinez is playing very well with the Giants, Kirksey is playing poorly for us. Now, is that worth an extra $5.875 in cap space? Maybe.
But you also have to ask your self if Martinez would still be playing as well in THIS scheme. That seems to be the issue. And with the swing and the miss on Oren Burks, I'd sure hope if Pettine is still going to be here next year that he can get on the same page with the scouting department about what the hell we actually need at that position to be effective.
That's a good point. Chances are Martinez is the same guy everyone complains about because he's making tackles 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.
Pettine coaches this kind of defense. Until he's gone, expect more of the same.
Same with our super duper special teams coach.
not sure why people are not impressed with Queens rookie year, he's got 90 tackles and 2 PD's, we don't even have a player with over 75 tackles, I think savage is the highest , Queen would be a vast improvement over anyone we have, and he has the range to play on a Island, Marty rarely showed that ability.
We talked about it in that other thread. People were saying he’s playing good and I’ve seen him in droy discussion. I must have seen 4 Baltimore games with a close eye on him because I liked him, he’s looked awful, as I said, totally lost, worse than Burks absolutely horrible. Then had that reaffirmed by a disgusting 28.7 PFF grade on the year. Barf
Which I just believe you were touting PFF for an argument just the other day.
not sure why people are not impressed with Queens rookie year, he's got 90 tackles and 2 PD's, we don't even have a player with over 75 tackles, I think savage is the highest , Queen would be a vast improvement over anyone we have, and he has the range to play on a Island, Marty rarely showed that ability.
We talked about it in that other thread. People were saying he’s playing good and I’ve seen him in droy discussion. I must have seen 4 Baltimore games with a close eye on him because I liked him, he’s looked awful, as I said, totally lost, worse than Burks absolutely horrible. Then had that reaffirmed by a disgusting 28.7 PFF grade on the year. Barf
Which I just believe you were touting PFF for an argument just the other day.
he's rated #33 at NFL reference, right with Tra Edwards, we don't have anyone in the top 75, and he fits Pettines single ILB better then anyone we've had in ages, he's done well as a rookie ILB imo, and if he where worse then Burks he wouldn't have started 13 games on a damn good defense, when I watch Queen I see flashes of Barnette, this defense would take on a whole new look with a Barnette clone
Patrick Queen: Not impressed with his performance the past two weeks. It was excusable when he was consistently creating splash plays but I’m not seeing those anymore.
“I was going to get tested regardless, no matter if I were playing good coverage this whole year or not,” Queen said. “This year, so far, my coverage has been a little bit shaky so it’s something that I got to improve on.”
“I’m there,” the Ravens’ first-round pick said. “I’m just not there at the same time.”
Queen was talking about his struggles in coverage; the sentiment captured Queen’s disjointed season just as concisely. He is an NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year contender, and also among the league’s worst-rated players at his position by Pro Football Focus. He leads all rookie linebackers in tackles, and ranks second among all defenders in missed tackles. He can look like a cornerstone piece on one drive, a worthy successor to Ray Lewis and C.J. Mosley, and then, on the next, like the head-spinning prospect who didn’t start regularly at LSU until last October.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 15 Dec 2020 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
FFS right here it shows that they do Number the players, and Queen has more tackles then any other rookie, sure he's had a up and down year, but he's better then anyone we have and is bound to be better next season, best ILB in this class
That's not a ranking/rating... It's a list sorted by solo tackles...
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Why is PFF the go to for Bobby Wagner, but not Patrick Queen?
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
Why is PFF the go to for Bobby Wagner, but not Patrick Queen?
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
On this we agree. On your assertion Queen is having a “good” rookie campaign, we do not.
It looks to me like Patrick Queen is a classic, classic case of the grass is greener on the other side.
It is easy to dismiss or discount Queen's downfalls when he doesn't play for the team you root for. You don't see them and it doesn't pain you. What you do see is the highlights on youtube and then it's easy to be like, "wow....I really want that guy on our team."
Now. Patrick Queen was my #1 Draft Crush. Just like Erik Hendricks, Myles Jack, Tremain Edmunds and Anthony Barr were in years past (are you sensing a pattern!?)
I will have to say. Hearing reports and reading articles of Queen maybe not being it makes me feel a lot better. Because those other guys are doing well in the league. I will also say though that Myles Jack took a bit of time to form his old mold.
I am happy we have Martin. He had a VERY good game vs Detroit.
Why is PFF the go to for Bobby Wagner, but not Patrick Queen?
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
On this we agree. On your assertion Queen is having a “good” rookie campaign, we do not.
Queen is having the best season of any rookie lber, and it's more rare then normal for ILB's to do better as rookies, sure plenty of rookies do ok as 2 down run stuffers, it's the coverages where they struggle, which are the issues with Queen, we should revisit this next year at this time to see how he pans out compared to Martin, Barnes and the player we replace Kirksey with.
Why is PFF the go to for Bobby Wagner, but not Patrick Queen?
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
First part
Second part, I feel like you want that to be true because you really want to not like the Jordan Love pick. Which I don’t either, but those are two pretty independent things. One can not like taking the QB and think the LB we passed on is currently playing worse than our two rookie LBs, and by a significant margin.
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
On this we agree. On your assertion Queen is having a “good” rookie campaign, we do not.
Queen is having the best season of any rookie lber, and it's more rare then normal for ILB's to do better as rookies, sure plenty of rookies do ok as 2 down run stuffers, it's the coverages where they struggle, which are the issues with Queen, we should revisit this next year at this time to see how he pans out compared to Martin, Barnes and the player we replace Kirksey with.
That simply isn’t true. Queen isn’t having the best LB season for a rookie and It isn’t rare for rookies to do well as LBs. Two made up things.
No matter how many times you say it’s rare for rookie LBs to do well, will never make it true. The evidence has been plentiful and shared by tens of people for you. No point in wasting my time reposting that for you knowing it will just be ignored, again. But it’s all there if you want to dig it up.
Why is PFF the go to for Bobby Wagner, but not Patrick Queen?
haaaa, PFF is biased except when they support our opinions
queen has been hot and cold, he's a rookie with no off season or PS games, he's struggled picking up the coverages, most rookie ILB's do, it's not as though any of our 3 are better, and Queen has a far brighter future.
First part
Second part, I feel like you want that to be true because you really want to not like the Jordan Love pick. Which I don’t either, but those are two pretty independent things. One can not like taking the QB and think the LB we passed on is currently playing worse than our two rookie LBs, and by a significant margin.
he is better then our rookies and will probably always be better then our two rookies, Queen has played the run well, has a couple forced fumbles, he has struggled to pick up his coverage assignment and you act as though that doesn't happen with Rookies, when actually it normally does.
GPG is right, this is a grass is always greener thing except in reverse, for anyone to think that Barnes or Martin has played better then Queen has a homer agenda going on, seriously who would you rather have at ILB next year at this time., and look around the league, most ILB's are not playing up to there norm.
I dislike the Love pick for the same reason I dis liked the Gary pick, it simply does not address present team needs in the last few years of Rodgers career
On this we agree. On your assertion Queen is having a “good” rookie campaign, we do not.
Queen is having the best season of any rookie lber, and it's more rare then normal for ILB's to do better as rookies, sure plenty of rookies do ok as 2 down run stuffers, it's the coverages where they struggle, which are the issues with Queen, we should revisit this next year at this time to see how he pans out compared to Martin, Barnes and the player we replace Kirksey with.
That simply isn’t true. Queen isn’t having the best LB season for a rookie and It isn’t rare for rookies to do well as LBs. Two made up things.
No matter how many times you say it’s rare for rookie LBs to do well, will never make it true. The evidence has been plentiful and shared by tens of people for you. No point in wasting my time reposting that for you knowing it will just be ignored, again. But it’s all there if you want to dig it up.
they normally struggle in coverage,(not all) and I did look it up, that PFF grade is rediculous, Queen has 90 tackles.
I'll get the last laugh with this, next year at this time WHO will be our starting ILB's? you can bet your ass Queen will be starting for the Ravens
Maybe it's just me, but tackles is a stat that I don't put a whole lot of weight into when evaluating ILB play. Sure tackles are good. You want them. But tackles are expected of an ILB. High volume of tackles as an ILB means you played most of the snaps.
A Packer ILB would likely have a lot of tackles too if we weren't forced to play 4 players at the ILB spot due to injuries.
If you don't like putting weight in just sack numbers for pass rushers, you certainly shouldn't put a lot of weight in just tackle numbers for ILBs.
Now me personally, I have watched ZERO Ravens football and I won't pretend I have watched any Ravens football. So the only information I have is what has been posted on this forum from as these are people's opinion I trust and value. There has been good information brought here from Pckfan23 and BF004 that Queen isn't playing well. Their evidence is certainly legitimate so I won't really question it.
Last edited by go pak go on 16 Dec 2020 09:00, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe it's just me, but tackles is a stat that I don't put a whole lot of weight into when evaluating ILB play. Sure tackles are good. You want them. But tackles are expected of an ILB. High volume of tackles as an ILB means you played most of the snaps.
A Packer ILB would likely have a lot of tackles too if we weren't forced to play 4 players at the ILB spot due to injuries.
If you don't like putting weight in just sack numbers for pass rushers, you certainly should put a lot of weight in just tackle numbers for ILBs.
Now me personally, I have watched ZERO Ravens football and I won't pretend I have watched any Ravens football. So the only information I have is what has been posted on this forum from as these are people's opinion I trust and value. There has been good information brought here from Pckfan23 and BF004 that Queen isn't playing well. Their evidence is certainly legitimate so I won't really question it.
Indeed, featured ILBs are gonna get a ton of tackles since the RBs are funneled their way. What matters is whether those tackles stop the plays near or behind the LoS or whether they allow those extra yards. Hard to know without watching film. The likes of Blake Martinez and A.J. Hawk had absurd amounts of tackles, but no one would call them superstar ILBs. Especially Hawk seemed to routinely allow himself to get dragged extra 3 yards per play...
I also haven't watched Queen, so am not gonna comment on him specifically. But it makes sense that run D is the easier part of the game for rookie LBs, and excelling in coverage from day one is very rare even for the athletic ones.
both of there opinions are biased in that there homers, and obviously never agree with me.
and you discount stopping the run as something any lber should do well, but they don't, in fact our mis tackles by lbers is I would expect higher then any other position on OUR defense (f looking it up, if ya don't believe me then go look it up yourselves)
Queen has 92 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 2 pds, and 1 interception, sure plenty of Rookie lbers can play the run, we got a couple doing it now, but they are having a hell of a lot more problems defending the pass to.
and I'll stick with my opinion, Queen would have been better for us this year and in the future.
rated #33 with ESPN as well, lis he's right in the grouping with Tramaine Edwards who is ratted #22
I didn't notice anyone else mention it. But Jamaal Williams' agent was in GB yesterday. Of course they could be other peoples' agent too. Some more fuel to add to the re-signing RBs fire.
