General Packers News 2020

[go pak go]

both of there opinions are biased in that there homers, and obviously never agree with me.

I don't know who's opinion you are talking about. There has only been one real opinion, maybe two opinions of Queen's plan on this board.

Yoho and BF004. They are the only ones who have watched Queen play. The rest is just simply gathering data from third party sources.

I do like your ESPN Ranking there. Notice that Kirksey is 144. I am curious as to how ESPN measures their ranking.

[Pugger]

Couldn't they just like take the photo before the game when they all plan on breaking distancing?

We got this photo in the mail. The picture is so small and the guys are all wearing masks you have to pull out a roster list to know who the hell is who on some of them.

[NCF]

That might be the most annoying thing I have seen throughout this entire pandemic.

[BF004]

both of there opinions are biased in that there homers, and obviously never agree with me.

Does this make sense to you? Like literally, my take on Queen is biased because I am a homer? Don't even know what this means about agreeing with you. I had been talking about Queen for over a week here starting in my post season awards thread, without you. Commenting on I was literally staring at him while watching the Ravens because I liked him in the draft, and he was downright bad. Not sure why you think me calling you out on wishing something to be so to prove yourself right has any bearing on my stance a week ago. You're so vein, you probably think that post is about you.

and you discount stopping the run as something any lber should do well, but they don't, in fact our mis tackles by lbers is I would expect higher then any other position on OUR defense (f looking it up, if ya don't believe me then go look it up yourselves)

When in doubt, make something up after name calling. This is why I frequently disagree with you. You debate using fabricated facts and figures and never change your stance even when actual, real, not made-up, evidence is provided to the contrary. Perhaps this is correct, but I don't know, and you clearly don't know. You literally said 'fact' then completely made up a sentence.

Then tell me I am discounting something. What am I discounting? Where did I discount something? Show where I discounted stopping the run for an LB. Just another made up accusation supported with an admitted made up fact.

You get mad at me for calling you out on making things up and lying, then don't do that.

Queen has 92 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 2 pds, and 1 interception, sure plenty of Rookie lbers can play the run, we got a couple doing it now, but they are having a hell of a lot more problems defending the pass to.

and I'll stick with my opinion, Queen would have been better for us this year and in the future.

rated #33 with ESPN as well, lis he's right in the grouping with Tramaine Edwards who is ratted #22

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... s/dir/desc

What am I supposed with him being ranked 33 and Edwards being ratted (Edmunds being rate #22). Is that, do you feel, a superior statistic to PFF? Do you even know what that rank is? I do not, it doesn't say. Is their rank in total plays? Modified tackles? Some measure of performance? What do you think it means?

Maybe it would be a better pick for us now and in the future. I never argued that point, especially the future. I have called him not good in Baltimore to date, that is it. I have admitted several times to wanting him and not liking the Love pick. Not sure what gets in your head sometimes when you get defensive here or what you think my motive is. But stay on topic and respond to what people actually say.

[kyle.mccarroll]

That might be the most annoying thing I have seen throughout this entire pandemic.

Gotta make sure we signal those virtues!

[Pckfn23]

rated #33 with ESPN as well, lis he's right in the grouping with Tramaine Edwards who is ratted #22

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... s/dir/desc

Just like Pro Football Reference, this is not a rating. It is a sorted list by solo tackles, nothing more...

[Yoop]

both of there opinions are biased in that there homers, and obviously never agree with me.

Does this make sense to you? Like literally, my take on Queen is biased because I am a homer? Don't even know what this means about agreeing with you. I had been talking about Queen for over a week here starting in my post season awards thread, without you. Commenting on I was literally staring at him while watching the Ravens because I liked him in the draft, and he was downright bad. Not sure why you think me calling you out on wishing something to be so to prove yourself right has any bearing on my stance a week ago. You're so vein, you probably think that post is about you.

and you discount stopping the run as something any lber should do well, but they don't, in fact our mis tackles by lbers is I would expect higher then any other position on OUR defense (f looking it up, if ya don't believe me then go look it up yourselves)

When in doubt, make something up after name calling. This is why I frequently disagree with you. You debate using fabricated facts and figures and never change your stance even when actual, real, not made-up, evidence is provided to the contrary. Perhaps this is correct, but I don't know, and you clearly don't know. You literally said 'fact' then completely made up a sentence.

Then tell me I am discounting something. What am I discounting? Where did I discount something? Show where I discounted stopping the run for an LB. Just another made up accusation supported with an admitted made up fact.

You get mad at me for calling you out on making things up and lying, then don't do that.

Queen has 92 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 2 pds, and 1 interception, sure plenty of Rookie lbers can play the run, we got a couple doing it now, but they are having a hell of a lot more problems defending the pass to.

and I'll stick with my opinion, Queen would have been better for us this year and in the future.

rated #33 with ESPN as well, lis he's right in the grouping with Tramaine Edwards who is ratted #22

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_ ... s/dir/desc

What am I supposed with him being ranked 33 and Edwards being ratted (Edmunds being rate #22). Is that, do you feel, a superior statistic to PFF? Do you even know what that rank is? I do not, it doesn't say. Is their rank in total plays? Modified tackles? Some measure of performance? What do you think it means?

Maybe it would be a better pick for us now and in the future. I never argued that point, especially the future. I have called him not good in Baltimore to date, that is it. I have admitted several times to wanting him and not liking the Love pick. Not sure what gets in your head sometimes when you get defensive here or what you think my motive is. But stay on topic and respond to what people actually say.

first of all you act as though rookie ILB's should be able to cover, should be able to pick up complicated passing schemes, they rarely do to well at, and it was GPG that said he down plays ILB tackle #'s

as to the ESPN grade, Queen is #33 in tackles, however when you read the other stats for PD's TFL etc he falls right in that range, Queen is a lot better then you or PFF is giving him credit for, look how often we/you disagree with PFF grades.

look how most here thought Martinez sucked, we can watch a player and come to any conclusion we want to concerning play, yet we are wrong often, not that I'am questioning your ability to judge this stuff, I'am questioning all of us to do so accurately, unless we know the tasking we often are doing no more then guessing.

and Queen has the range missing in the middle of this defense, for christ sakes the defensive wrap up from Herman ehcos the stuff I've been saying

[Pckfn23]

Queen is 47th among all linebackers with 2 Passes Defensed. 126 linebackers have at least 1 PD. He is 239th among all defenders.

Queen is 22nd in total tackles among all linebackers with 92. 164 linebackers have at least 10 total tackles. He is 33rd among all defenders.

Queen is 43rd in Tackles for Loss among all linebackers with 5. 155 linebackers have at least 1 TFL. He is 85th among all defenders.

[BF004]

You accuse others of being biased, which I don't get.

But why is it important to you that we view Queen as good right now, year to date?

[NCF]

How difficult is it to think that he might be a little of both, good and bad.

Queen was talking about his struggles in coverage; the sentiment captured Queen’s disjointed season just as concisely. He is an NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year contender, and also among the league’s worst-rated players at his position by Pro Football Focus. He leads all rookie linebackers in tackles, and ranks second among all defenders in missed tackles. He can look like a cornerstone piece on one drive, a worthy successor to Ray Lewis and C.J. Mosley, and then, on the next, like the head-spinning prospect who didn’t start regularly at LSU until last October.

Queen has played, for better or for worse, as his circumstances might suggest — like a 21-year-old with all the potential in the world but few of the privileges typically afforded players his age. No grizzled veteran to learn from. No preseason games to study. No choice but to dive in headfirst as a starter on one of the NFL’s best and most demanding defenses.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/rav ... story.html

[Pckfn23]

If you judge him as a starting NFL inside linebacker against all other starting NFL inside linebackers he has not had a good season. He has shown flashes of potential, but that does not mean his season as a whole has been a good or even average one. Those flashes show that he can get there and that he CAN BE a good inside linebacker in the future, but this year, he hasn't been.

[BSA]

Queen has played, for better or for worse, as his circumstances might suggest — like a 21-year-old with all the potential in the world but few of the privileges typically afforded players his age. No grizzled veteran to learn from. No preseason games to study. No choice but to dive in headfirst as a starter on one of the NFL’s best and most demanding defenses.

Some of this is why the Packers wanted a vet like Kirksey- because asking a rookie to be the captain of the defense is a very tall order- even in normal times. GB also looked into another former Badger, Joe Schobert - but his asking price was too high and he wasn't interested in giving a home town discount. So Schobert got his benjamins, but plays for a pathetic team racking up loss after loss in Jax.

[YoHoChecko]

Some of this is why the Packers wanted a vet like Kirksey- because asking a rookie to be the captain of the defense is a very tall order- even in normal times. GB also looked into another former Badger, Joe Schobert - but his asking price was too high and he wasn't interested in giving a home town discount. So Schobert got his benjamins, but plays for a pathetic team racking up loss after loss in Jax.

Yeah, I have to say that without applying the hindsight I still think the Kirksey signing was smart.

We had a guy that was a pretty darn good football player prior to missing two years with injury.
He had played for our DC before, so he had system familiarity plus personal knowledge
We had a very young ILB room that needed a veteran/leadership character
We signed him to a 2-year deal that pays him like a mid-range starter or role player in the first year, and both years have HEAVY per-game roster incentives due to his health history.

If he played well, his second year is still a good deal. If he didn't/doesn't/isn't, his second year is easy to get out of.

Like, what's the big downside here? I think it was a smart signing and a good risk to take and it hasn't panned out. But the rookies and young guys had injury issues, also. So as the season goes on, according to the most recent snapcount trends, they're working their way in. It hasn't been the best outcome, but the process was sound and it's the type of medium-to-low-risk signing I want to see the team continue to make (also like Marcedes Lewis)

[Yoop]

If you judge him as a starting NFL inside linebacker against all other starting NFL inside linebackers he has not had a good season. He has shown flashes of potential, but that does not mean his season as a whole has been a good or even average one. Those flashes show that he can get there and that he CAN BE a good inside linebacker in the future, but this year, he hasn't been.

seriously Queen has out performed any ILB we have including Kirksey Barnes, Martin, etc, and has more tackles then any Packer player. you guys snubbed him mostly because I liked him, normal for this forum

[salmar80]

Thought this was worth picking separately from 23's post quoting The Athletic's article in the Lions game thread:

The Packers are proving to be one of the best offenses in the NFL in controlling the clock. The Packers lead the NFL in time of possession, and the last time Green Bay finished a season No. 1 was 2009.

The Packers also lead the NFL in 5-minute drives with 27 total, which is a staunch improvement from last season when they had 25 total.

Many of these clock-killing drives are coming in the second half of games when the Packers are protecting leads. The run-to-win formula has proven to be effective under LaFleur, who is more willing to lean on the run game late. The Packers are currently seventh with 67.5 rushing yards per game in the second half.

Leading the league in ToP is AWESOME. It's a sign of a complete offense. Also makes things much easier for our D.

[Yoop]

You accuse others of being biased, which I don't get.

But why is it important to you that we view Queen as good right now, year to date?

never was important to me that YOU view him as great, I never said he was great (yet) and I've always said ILB is not a easy transition, course according to you and 23 thats wrong because 2 dn lbers come in and do pretty well every season, my whole point then was that the coverage part takes a year or so to coach up for most rookie ILB's, you shot that down to prior as well , basically you twist the convo to suit whatever your opinion is, obviously it is not a easy transition to be a coverage player.

Queen has a higher ceiling then any ILB we have, and next year your gonna witness that, and we'll still be dicking around with undrafted jags.

[Pugger]

Queen has played, for better or for worse, as his circumstances might suggest — like a 21-year-old with all the potential in the world but few of the privileges typically afforded players his age. No grizzled veteran to learn from. No preseason games to study. No choice but to dive in headfirst as a starter on one of the NFL’s best and most demanding defenses.

Some of this is why the Packers wanted a vet like Kirksey- because asking a rookie to be the captain of the defense is a very tall order- even in normal times. GB also looked into another former Badger, Joe Schobert - but his asking price was too high and he wasn't interested in giving a home town discount. So Schobert got his benjamins, but plays for a pathetic team racking up loss after loss in Jax.

It would have been different had we had mini camps and TC.

[NCF]

If you judge him as a starting NFL inside linebacker against all other starting NFL inside linebackers he has not had a good season. He has shown flashes of potential, but that does not mean his season as a whole has been a good or even average one. Those flashes show that he can get there and that he CAN BE a good inside linebacker in the future, but this year, he hasn't been.

seriously Queen has out performed any ILB we have including Kirksey Barnes, Martin, etc, and has more tackles then any Packer player. you guys snubbed him mostly because I liked him, normal for this forum

A couple of things...

1.) No one does things just to spite you
2.) I like Queen, loved him in The Draft
3.) He has NOT outperformed our guys in any way other than in volume statistics
4.) I think anyone here would trade any of our guys for Queen... even all of our guys for Queen... but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone should expect an uptick in production NOW. Next year, the future? Absolutely. Now? Maybe, maybe not. A lot of metrics suggest one would not be smart to bet on it.

[Ghost_Lombardi]

Yoop is not happy with our ILB play.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZJAfYo9S1sL777bx5

[salmar80]

If you judge him as a starting NFL inside linebacker against all other starting NFL inside linebackers he has not had a good season. He has shown flashes of potential, but that does not mean his season as a whole has been a good or even average one. Those flashes show that he can get there and that he CAN BE a good inside linebacker in the future, but this year, he hasn't been.

seriously Queen has out performed any ILB we have including Kirksey Barnes, Martin, etc, and has more tackles then any Packer player. you guys snubbed him mostly because I liked him, normal for this forum

A couple of things...

1.) No one does things just to spite you
2.) I like Queen, loved him in The Draft
3.) He has NOT outperformed our guys in any way other than in volume statistics
4.) I think anyone here would trade any of our guys for Queen... even all of our guys for Queen... but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone should expect an uptick in production NOW. Next year, the future? Absolutely. Now? Maybe, maybe not. A lot of metrics suggest one would not be smart to bet on it.

It's a very valid opinion that Queen (or a WR or DL) would've helped us out this year and next couple of years more than Jordan Love. It's totally fine to be against the Love pick.

None of this means Queen has played on super high level this year. He would not have made us a ton better THIS YEAR, maybe a tiny bit, but he wouldn't have skyrocketed our ILB corps into instant respectability. Maybe Queen blossoms into a rock star next season and we'll shed some envy tears and curse Gutey to heck. Before that, let's win a SB without Queen.

Also, would've been cool to have both a King and a Queen on the D.