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Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 14:29
by Yoop
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 11:57
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 10:43
go pak go wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 10:10
I posted last spring the data of SB teams (conference champs) the last 20 years and what they have in common.
It showed that SB teams usually had a top 5 unit, either offense or defense and the other side of the ball was generally top 10 but occasionally top 15 unit.
Top offenses had more cushion for the defense to be top 15 whereas top defenses generally needed closer to a top 10 offense and especially a good STs unit. However, more SB teams had top 3 defenses than top 3 offenses...meaning top 3 offenses didn't make the big game as often as a top 3 defense did.
The overwhelming theme was SB teams didn't have a liability. Usually the other side wasn't lower than top 15 in any of the categories.
that could be, being good on both sides of the ball obviously is the goal, but that article I brought in the other thread shows that in the last 3 or 4 years the best defenses in the league didn't even make it past the WC round, couple that with the resources used to produce those defenses, and it went to waste.
just look what we've spent to get what we have this year, defense is to inconsistent to rely on year to year, and our team is a great example of that, and actually our team is sorta the norm, one year to the next is almost impossible to predict concerning defense.
Interestingly to me at least, the 1996 Packers D was ranked #1. And the 2010 Packers D was ranked #2. The 1997 Packers D was ranked #5 (Denver's 1997 Defense was ranked #6).
yet Denver ran over that #5 rated Packer defense, didn't Davis have over 100 yrds? I can't remember ( I'll have to go look it up now) but neither defense held the score below 20 pts
I realize we have to spend to have the best defense possible, thing is there are few defenses that can hold any offense to under 20 pts and offenses average more then that.
yep, Davis ran for 157 yrds with 3 TD's, our defense couldn't make a goal line stand, 3, 1 yrd TD's
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 14:54
by Raptorman
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 10:00
Raptorman wrote: ↑16 Dec 2022 23:18
BF004 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2022 23:10
Is that your way of telling us you don’t think the Vikings have a chance?
SF and Buffalo, the Super Bowl in the 90’s we all wanted but never got.
Well, unless our defense steps up...........not a chance. Also, if Green Bay ever had another good defense.............But then people think it was all Brady in New England.
NO PEOPLE DONT, NE's defenses where very good, but so was Brady.
and the Vikes are where they are this season mostly do to very good offense, and the Niners have been winning because of there offense, your idea that your team can't dance because the defense isn't as good as it use to be is false, offense wins more trophy's then defense ever has, offenses rely on defense to hold a lead and they fail miserably at it, often the last team to have the ball goes home with the Lombardi, and thats because the last team to score beats that defense.
and please spare me the stats that the winning teams hold opponents to less then 20 points a game, or 17 pts, or whatever it is, I respect those numbers, thats great, but minus the offense those numbers don't mean much
Compare Brady's wins to Rodger's based on how many points per game the team gave up. I think you might get a different opinion of the so-called GOAT. FWIW, I think Rodgers is the better of the two. Let's just say if Rodgers had Brady's defense the last 15 years, the Packers would have at least 4 more trophies if not 5. Remember the Defense Rodgers had when they won the Super Bowl? Brady had that almost every year in New England.
You should also take a good look at how Lombardi's Packers won. It's a easy to win when your defense is only giving up 12 ppg. Or whatever it was.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 15:04
by Raptorman
To give you an idea of what Brady had that Rodgers didn't. This is the top 9 defenses Brady had in New England, With the 2010 Packers thrown in for comparison.
Code: Select all
PF PA
2019 NFL New England Patriots* 12 4 0 1st of 4 Lost WC 420 225 195 Belichick Brady
2006 NFL New England Patriots* 12 4 0 1st of 4 Lst Cf 385 237 148 Belichick Brady
2003 NFL New England Patriots* 14 2 0 1st of 4 Won SB 348 238 110 Belichick Brady
2010 NFL Green Bay Packers* 10 6 0 2nd of 4 Won SB 388 240 148 McCarthy Rodgers
2016 NFL New England Patriots* 14 2 0 1st of 4 Won SB 441 250 191 Belichick Brady
2004 NFL New England Patriots* 14 2 0 1st of 4 Won SB 437 260 177 Belichick Brady
2001 NFL New England Patriots* 11 5 0 1st of 5 Won SB 371 272 99 Belichick Brady
2007 NFL New England Patriots* 16 0 0 1st of 4 Lost SB 589 274 315 Belichick Brady
2009 NFL New England Patriots* 10 6 0 1st of 4 Lost WC 427 285 142 Belichick Brady
2017 NFL New England Patriots* 13 3 0 1st of 4 Lost SB 458 296 162 Belichick Brady
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 15:58
by Scott4Pack
We could have that chat, Raptor, about what Brady does better than Rodgers and vice versa.
Brady is “steady Eddie” almost all the time. He reads defenses as well as anybody, including Rodgers. So he has an advantage in what to do with the ball that other QBs don’t have. But he doesn’t do physically outstanding plays. He is the epitome of steadiness. And for a very long time.
Rodgers is likely the best thrower of a deep pass ever. But he doesn’t do much for inspiring his teammates perhaps. He WANTS to deviate from steadiness so that he can make more impact plays.
We could celebrate much or gripe about some things from both. In a sense, they are equally good/great. But I think that is so because both, in their own ways, have performed with excellence for a long duration of time. If Brady gets the edge over Rodgers it’s because his teams have been to and won so many Super Bowls. If Brady doesn’t get that edge over Rodgers, funny enough, it might be because his teams have LOST so many Super Bowls, but not because Rodgers has won a number of them. Kind of a funny argument.
This argument will never be settled.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 17:12
by Labrev
I don't care what the stats say, if you can't see the way that Brady comes through and makes the play on O when his team needs it most, then I am very sorry for you.
Defense put him in good position plenty if times sure, but in the end it was up to him and his side of the ball to come through on many occasions, and he was hands-frickin-down the best at QB to consistently come through in all those situations. This whole "nah bro it's just the defense"-thing is nothing but Copium at this point.
In truth I would say it was not even Brady + "good defenses." It was: ... GOAT QB + GOAT (D-minded) HC. Period, end of convo.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 18:11
by Raptorman
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 17:12
I don't care what the stats say, if you can't see the way that Brady comes through and makes the play on O when his team needs it most, then I am very sorry for you.
Defense put him in good position plenty if times sure, but in the end
it was up to him and his side of the ball to come through on many occasions, and he was hands-frickin-down the best at QB to consistently come through in all those situations. This whole "nah bro it's just the defense"-thing is nothing but Copium at this point.
In truth I would say it was not even Brady + "good defenses." It was: ... GOAT QB + GOAT (D-minded) HC. Period, end of convo.
Yeah, keep believing that.
Games, Game winning Drives, and percentage of games with GWDs
Code: Select all
Player Games GW drives
Brady 331 56 17%
Cousins 134 27 20%
Rodgers 219 30 14%
Do you know how to beat Brady? Score more than 33 points. He sucks at winning when you score more than 33 points against him. He becomes shall we say, pedestrian. 80% of all his wins in NE his defense gave up less than 18 ppg. But he's the GOAT. &%$@, Brady didn't do anything Brock Purdy isn't doing in San Fran right now.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 18:18
by Pckfn23
Every QB sucks at winning when the other team scores 33+... I would also believe most QBs have a large percentage of their wins against a team that scored less than 18...
You both are arguing different sides of the same coin...
Although Raptor that last sentence is asinine in the extreme.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 18:23
by Pckfn23
Why do you have Brady as games played and Cousins as games started? Also GWDs include playoffs, FYI.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 17 Dec 2022 19:46
by Raptorman
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 18:23
Why do you have Brady as games played and Cousins as games started? Also GWDs include playoffs, FYI.
So that would make Brady's numbers even worse.
I did it in a hurru.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 07:22
by Yoop
Raptorman wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 19:46
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 18:23
Why do you have Brady as games played and Cousins as games started? Also GWDs include playoffs, FYI.
So that would make Brady's numbers even worse.
I did it in a hurru.
your team just demonstrated that once a offense figures out the weak spots of a defense it's off to the races.
as to Brady and Rodgers, for most of there careers they played in completely different systems, we featured WR's and deep passing, they featured TE's and slot receivers, Rodgers was a great deep passer, while Brady was excellent with up tempo, both of these QB's are/where great, and capable of performing well in any scheme.
of course having a great defense would help any offense, but Brady would have excelled just as Rodgers has without one, He just wouldn't have one as many games.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 10:59
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Dec 2022 07:22
your team just demonstrated that once a offense figures out the weak spots of a defense it's off to the races.
And there are so many examples of that... right?
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 11:30
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑18 Dec 2022 10:59
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Dec 2022 07:22
your team just demonstrated that once a offense figures out the weak spots of a defense it's off to the races.
And there are so many examples of that... right?
yes the list is endless, obviously not to the record setting example of last nights Vikes come back rally, but we see multiple games each week where offenses find or create plays to take advantage of weak defensive positions, target those positions and win games, heck we've been watching it happen to us all season.
Even very good defenses will get blown out if the offense schemes up something they can't adjust to stop in a given time frame, we see that happen as well.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 11:46
by Labrev
Raptorman wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 18:11
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 17:12
I don't care what the stats say, if you can't see the way that Brady comes through and makes the play on O when his team needs it most, then I am very sorry for you.
Defense put him in good position plenty if times sure, but in the end
it was up to him and his side of the ball to come through on many occasions, and he was hands-frickin-down the best at QB to consistently come through in all those situations. This whole "nah bro it's just the defense"-thing is nothing but Copium at this point.
In truth I would say it was not even Brady + "good defenses." It was: ... GOAT QB + GOAT (D-minded) HC. Period, end of convo.
Yeah, keep believing that.
Games, Game winning Drives, and percentage of games with GWDs
Code: Select all
Player Games GW drives
Brady 331 56 17%
Cousins 134 27 20%
Rodgers 219 30 14%
You can't just straight up divide game-winning drives by games played
that only works if the opportunity presents itself in each game for the QB to *lead* a game-winning drive.
Hazarding a guess, Brady's percentage (using your defective methodology) is probably lower because he didn't NEED to win on the last drive as often....
LOL REPTAR!
Do you know how to beat Brady? Score more than 33 points. He sucks at winning when you score more than 33 points against him.
Ah right, just score 34 points or more against an NFL team (coached by Belichick, no less)—piece of cake!
Patriots Dynasty wasn't simply the work of GOAT QB, it was the work the GOAT Head Coach, Belichick, who kept games within reach, and Brady, who was (yes) the GOAT at delivering points in the most high-stakes situational football.
You're not scoring 34 or more on Belichick. You can still beat the Brady-Belichick Patriots, you just need to play smart, sound football to win. See: Green Bay v. New England 2014 (won without scoring 33+).
But he's the GOAT. &%$@, Brady didn't do anything Brock Purdy isn't doing in San Fran right now.
Brady = Purdy ... this $%@# guy.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 11:59
by Labrev
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 18 Dec 2022 13:26
by Scott4Pack
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 14:29
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 11:57
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Dec 2022 10:43
that could be, being good on both sides of the ball obviously is the goal, but that article I brought in the other thread shows that in the last 3 or 4 years the best defenses in the league didn't even make it past the WC round, couple that with the resources used to produce those defenses, and it went to waste.
just look what we've spent to get what we have this year, defense is to inconsistent to rely on year to year, and our team is a great example of that, and actually our team is sorta the norm, one year to the next is almost impossible to predict concerning defense.
Interestingly to me at least, the 1996 Packers D was ranked #1. And the 2010 Packers D was ranked #2. The 1997 Packers D was ranked #5 (Denver's 1997 Defense was ranked #6).
yet Denver ran over that #5 rated Packer defense, didn't Davis have over 100 yrds? I can't remember ( I'll have to go look it up now) but neither defense held the score below 20 pts
I realize we have to spend to have the best defense possible, thing is there are few defenses that can hold any offense to under 20 pts and offenses average more then that.
yep, Davis ran for 157 yrds with 3 TD's, our defense couldn't make a goal line stand, 3, 1 yrd TD's
Correct. The Packers had no answer for Davis. He literally controlled the game, more than Elway. And we couldn’t score enough to keep up.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 19 Dec 2022 15:59
by NCF
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 19 Dec 2022 19:56
by Ghost_Lombardi
The betting line in DAL v PHI moved 3 pts
BEFORE it was public knowledge that Hurts had any injury whatsoever.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 20 Dec 2022 09:49
by BF004
Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑19 Dec 2022 19:56
The betting line in DAL v PHI moved 3 pts
BEFORE it was public knowledge that Hurts had any injury whatsoever.
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 20 Dec 2022 12:01
by Labrev
So Stafford was asked on his wife's podcast if he will retire, and his answer was a firm "No."
Re: Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022
Posted: 20 Dec 2022 14:20
by Realist
Labrev wrote: ↑20 Dec 2022 12:01
So Stafford was asked on his wife's podcast if he will retire, and his answer was a firm "No."
Not many men listen to Mrs Staffords podcast so that is info that I did not know. Any other nuggets?