YoHoChecko wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023 16:47
Drj820 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023 16:19
Rodgers heroics brought me a lot of happy Sundays that would not have been happy without his heroics.
Not gonna apologize for wishing him well in New York. If they play the packers, Il be pulling for the Packers.
No one has any issue with the well-wishing.
It's that second sentence in your original post that brought up this debate:
Drj820 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023 14:29
im pulling for the Jets and Rodgers to do well.
If he wins a super bowl in New York people will see how much the Packers coaches and front office held him back.
But I want to move on from the semantic back and forth and talk about another, related statement. It may deserve a thread, as someone suggested, dedicated to the endless argument over the current management, but it's been something I've wanted to say for a while.
Drj820 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023 16:15
I know you are nervous that rodgers is gonna look a lot better because for years you’ve defended the front office with every move and at every turn…
Here lies an essay. Feel free to skip. This is almost entirely about me, and why I really like Gutenkunst.
There is a common sentiment among posters who dislike the current front offense and coaching regime, or posters who have chosen to defend Rodgers at the expense of others in the org, that there is some sort of collective on this site that blindly defends management at every turn in every instance.
First, I would say that's mostly untrue. Most of the people who defend the front office can list several times they have taken issue with their decisions. For my sake, I literally said earlier today in the Draft thread that Wyatt was on my "please don't draft" list last year and we took him. I have also said incredibly clearly, repeatedly, for two years that keeping Rodgers last year wa sa mistake, the contract he was given was a mistake, and letting Davante Adams leave was a mistake. So there isn't blind devotion.
But for myself, personally, I can show receipts that I like the moves this team makes and I like defending this front office is because they make moves I advocate for IN ADVANCE. I'm not retro-actively adjusting; I'm not evaluating in hindsight
For better and for worse, Gutey seems to see the job similarly to me, right from his first draft.
In 2018, Jaire Alexander was one of "my guys" in the pre-draft process. I compared him to Revis.
In 2019, I had compared Savage to Nick Collins pre-draft (this one counts as for worse). I liked Jenkins though was disappointed to have missed on Dalton Risner by a couple picks
). I made a mist of head coaching candidates I wanted and MLF was near the top. I was the first person on the board to mention him, during the prior season, before MM was even fired, as a candidate that intrigued me because of his track record of getting the best play out of his QBs and Rodgers' need for a reboot.
In 2020, I made a post about the 5 players I most wanted the Packers to draft. It included JRJ and Josiah Deguara. I also was VERY high on AJ Dillon. I made many posts in the wake of the draft about how difficult it was to process a draft that got several individual players I liked, while taking them at values I did not like, and missing out on our biggest need, WR.
In 2021 I put 7th round pick Kylin Hill in every one of my mocks. I wrote about it. Every one. When we signed DeVondre Campbell, my first post about it was in all-caps "I HAVE WANTED THIS FOR YEARS."
In 2022 I desperately wanted Christian Watson. I also successfully nailed Zach Tom and Carpenter as Packers picks in the correct rounds.
I also advocated strongly for signing Sammy Watson, which... oops.
This is not to brag. Some of those moves flopped, some didn't. The point is that I defend our current management because we SO OFTEN see eye-to-eye on the team's major issues and because they have overseen some remarkable, though limited, success. 5 years, 3 13-win seasons, multiple NFC Championship games.
I am not a rose-colored glasses homer. I am a person whose favorite team has a management team that broadly makes moves I would like them to make more often than not, and whose results have made for an excellent, fun, rooting experience on the field more often than not. We're a competitive team that is in almost every game, wins much more often than they lose and has been a legitimate championship contender (depending on how you define that) for 3 of the past 5 years.
I'm having a blast as a Packers fan. I like the moves the team makes BEFORE they make them, not some retro-fitting hindsight, and it's a really enjoyable time for me to root for the Packers.
The exception was last season. That was not fun. Nothing was clicking; everything seemed disjointed. The good players underperformed and the JAGs were exposed and the mood around the team was tense. EVEN THOUGH that was consistent with my thoughts that we held onto Rodgers a year too long and gave up on Davante too soon--even though there was a chance to feel vindicated by this outcome, I just felt miserable about the team. I would have so much rather have been wrong about whether or not Rodgers could succeed in an offense in transition; or whether or not the offense could transition quickly to young WRs without someone like Davante in the room to be a stable base.
Anyway, this is an essay not an internet post. But when it comes to me, at least, and my relationship with Gutey and the team, I am not blindly defending moves I would normally disagree with because I am a homer and a Packers fan. I am rooting for a guy who sees the football world similarly to me while also rooting for my team, and openly disagreeing when things don't go my way, while hoping to be wrong.
This year, I have put my stamp on two issues: No Dalton Kincaid and We Should Have Traded Bakh. One ship has sailed when we restructured his contract. One ship may sail this weekend; who knows. But I am rooting for Bakhtiari to be great this year and to stay healthy. And if we draft Kincaid I will root for him to become the next Cooper Kupp. But that doesn't mean I'll be "defending the org."
I would rather root for good outcomes than be right. But it is really special, as a fan, when those things align; when you have a GM who keeps doing things similarly to your thoughts and opinions so you get to root for the team and root to be right. And even more special when your rooting interests all work out. Christian Watson looks like That Dude. Jaire Alexander is the highest paid CB in the league. AJ Dillon is one of the best personalities on the team. JRJ was, indeed, the safest 6th round pick available (which is what I hailed him as). AND the Packers kept winning.
Obviously, we all wish we had a Super Bowl to show for this time period. Obviously, it would be easier to settle differences and debates had we won one (though I think the "Rodgers carried a weak franchise to the Lombardi" crowd would still exist.) But as it is, I have the great benefit of rooting for a perennially successful franchise with a leadership structure that sees football similarly to me and several individual players I love rooting for. If that makes me a homer or "defending the management at every turn," so be it. But it comes from a true alignment of opinions and ideas, not from some blind devotion.
