Packers Huddle

He seemed to be a great ball hawk when able to play a zone in college. Hope we can work a scheme where he can get back to what he’s best at.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:22

He seemed to be a great ball hawk when able to play a zone in college. Hope we can work a scheme where he can get back to what he’s best at.

I was probably his biggest fan on here coming out of the draft. Dude definitely could ball at Iowa in zone.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:19

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:10

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:06

Might not be eating crow after all.

I wonder if they're finally letting him play outside, which is obviously his best position despite some long speed limitations.

I’m not sure he’s ever going to be any good in a man heavy scheme.

Why does this assumption of Packers only run man or Packers run a heavy man scheme come up in Packers threads? Packers run a lot of zone. Pettine does a lot of zone with us. More so than man.

7. GREEN BAY PACKERS
The Green Bay Packers improved their team coverage grade from 69.6 (26th) in 2018 to 88.0 (seventh) in 2019. Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine used zone schemes on 51% of their 613 coverage snaps, giving his pass defenders clear vision against opposing quarterbacks, and they responded with the league’s third-most interceptions (16) and the fifth-most forced incompletions (60). Second-year player Jaire Alexander (11th) and 10-year veteran Tramon Williams (6th) both ranked inside PFFs list of top 25 cornerbacks for 2019, and their presence helped the defense allow a completion percentage of just 64.7% and a passer rating of 87.3, both of which were the fourth-lowest among teams. They also checked in with the 10th-fewest missed tackles (34), which shows an improved defense that goes well beyond their good pass-rush.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2019-nfl-s ... y-rankings

Sounds like we have some bright spots at that 4th OLB position as well. Sounds like Tim Williams is doing well but so are the others. More importantly, sounds like all of them are pretty good in coverage which is a great thing. Fackrell filled that coverage role nicely the last two years and it'd be great to get that back again this year.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 11:00

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This could mean one of Bruffy or Fulgham has been cut to make room for activating Hunter Bradley.

Or both.

That didn't last long for Fulgham.

go pak go wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:52

Why does this assumption of Packers only run man or Packers run a heavy man scheme come up in Packers threads? Packers run a lot of zone. Pettine does a lot of zone with us. More so than man.

I knew we were running more zone with Pettine, than we were with Capers, but I certainly wasn't aware it was that much more. I guess any sort of zone D that's trotted out there is going to be more than in the past. With Capers we were running the same man coverage over and over. Maybe the assumption stems from being used to seeing that vanilla man for about a decade now.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 15:19

go pak go wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:52

Why does this assumption of Packers only run man or Packers run a heavy man scheme come up in Packers threads? Packers run a lot of zone. Pettine does a lot of zone with us. More so than man.

I knew we were running more zone with Pettine, than we were with Capers, but I certainly wasn't aware it was that much more. I guess any sort of zone D that's trotted out there is going to be more than in the past. With Capers we were running the same man coverage over and over. Maybe the assumption stems from being used to seeing that vanilla man for about a decade now.

I think the assumption follows Pettine as he was known to need a lock down man corner to execute his defenses in NY (ie: Revis island), that then freed up other players to be sent on exotic blitzes.

I know he ran an annoying amount of simple zones this past season. Ones that kept everything in front of the d and allowed them to be nickel and dimed down the field, only to tighten up in the red zone and force field goals. Used to drive me crazy, but in the end it worked pretty well. Not sure if that’s what his top choice would be, but he certainly showed tons of patience with it plenty last season.

I've always felt, man or zone, you play Jackson outside with a fast rangy safety over top. The same way Richard Sherman used length, physicality, ball skills, and instincts to play great ball so long as Earl Thomas was on the back end.

Savage's development allows for a guy like Jackson to play outside and have success, because the long speed is less of a liability when the safety can get there over the top

Say Jackson keeps to an outside role, and does really well in it.

Who do you have outside on a long term basis? Would Jackson and King be the guys on the outside, and push Jaire in the inside?

If Jackson pans out, could certainly make King expendable after the 2020 season when he'll be looking for a new contract. Jackson is signed through 2021. Certaintly could free up some money to either sign Jones or Bak. I would have no problems with this at all, but I'm obviously relying on Josh to finally make a step here.

He has the tools to be successful, with the right lineups and guys.. definitely.

Guess you could throw in Linsley too for possible re signings. I have to imagine Bak is going to be the priority now after Clark was extended. I'd love to have Jones back, but the more and more I look at it - I just don't see how it will happen. Even more so now with personnel we've brought in via the draft, as we're starting to look like we have ourselves a pretty good stable of guys for the backfield.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:00

Say Jackson keeps to an outside role, and does really well in it.

Who do you have outside on a long term basis? Would Jackson and King be the guys on the outside, and push Jaire in the inside?

If Jackson pans out, could certainly make King expendable after the 2020 season when he'll be looking for a new contract. Jackson is signed through 2021. Certaintly could free up some money to either sign Jones or Bak. I would have no problems with this at all, but I'm obviously relying on Josh to finally make a step here.

He has the tools to be successful, with the right lineups and guys.. definitely.

I mean the way I see it, our starters are King and Jaire on the outside, with Sullivan in the inside nickel role.

I'd want to see Jackson first off the bench on the outside. If King gets hurt, Jackson's in. If Sullivan gets hurt, Jaire can slide inside and Jackson takes the outside. I would be nervous with Jackson and Sullivan manning 2 of the three spots on the field together because teams could intentionally create speed matchups too easily there.

It's still perfectly plausible that the guy isn't Jackson. I just think he doesn't have the mirror ability to play inside where the receiver can really go two directions laterally. If either Jackson or Hollman step up to a starter level outside, they likely get that spot when King departs next year. But I think we need to draft a CB on the first 2 days of the 21 draft regardless

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 15:32

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 15:19

go pak go wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 13:52

Why does this assumption of Packers only run man or Packers run a heavy man scheme come up in Packers threads? Packers run a lot of zone. Pettine does a lot of zone with us. More so than man.

I knew we were running more zone with Pettine, than we were with Capers, but I certainly wasn't aware it was that much more. I guess any sort of zone D that's trotted out there is going to be more than in the past. With Capers we were running the same man coverage over and over. Maybe the assumption stems from being used to seeing that vanilla man for about a decade now.

I think the assumption follows Pettine as he was known to need a lock down man corner to execute his defenses in NY (ie: Revis island), that then freed up other players to be sent on exotic blitzes.

I know he ran an annoying amount of simple zones this past season. Ones that kept everything in front of the d and allowed them to be nickel and dimed down the field, only to tighten up in the red zone and force field goals. Used to drive me crazy, but in the end it worked pretty well. Not sure if that’s what his top choice would be, but he certainly showed tons of patience with it plenty last season.

To be honest, you could insert this description under Capers too, and just change from zone to man. Except his defenses ended up with opposing TD's.

Based on the jumps in coverage grades for a lot of our guys under Pettine, it's shored up enough that it should get us over the hump. Pettine's biggest goal is to figure out how to shut down the run - what is really holding back this defense from being middle of the road to being dominate. We can continue to use the ILB excuse, but Pettine has more weapons on D than I've seen in at least a decade or more under Capers.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:13

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:00

Say Jackson keeps to an outside role, and does really well in it.

Who do you have outside on a long term basis? Would Jackson and King be the guys on the outside, and push Jaire in the inside?

If Jackson pans out, could certainly make King expendable after the 2020 season when he'll be looking for a new contract. Jackson is signed through 2021. Certaintly could free up some money to either sign Jones or Bak. I would have no problems with this at all, but I'm obviously relying on Josh to finally make a step here.

He has the tools to be successful, with the right lineups and guys.. definitely.

I mean the way I see it, our starters are King and Jaire on the outside, with Sullivan in the inside nickel role.

I'd want to see Jackson first off the bench on the outside. If King gets hurt, Jackson's in. If Sullivan gets hurt, Jaire can slide inside and Jackson takes the outside. I would be nervous with Jackson and Sullivan manning 2 of the three spots on the field together because teams could intentionally create speed matchups too easily there.

It's still perfectly plausible that the guy isn't Jackson. I just think he doesn't have the mirror ability to play inside where the receiver can really go two directions laterally. If either Jackson or Hollman step up to a starter level outside, they likely get that spot when King departs next year. But I think we need to draft a CB on the first 2 days of the 21 draft regardless

It's definitely a scary thought having someone like Jackson on the outside, but at some point we just have to see what we have in the guy. Unless we're going to throw him at safety somewhere, which I do not see happening. He certainly is not going to do well on the inside. It's obviously early yet, but two of the three off seasons (believe he was hurt last year) he's shown a lot of promise. Last year all he did was ride pine to the point it was almost head scratching, guys coming off the street mid season were getting playing time over him.

King isn't going to be on the inside. Jackson I don't think can. That leaves Jaire (Sullivan too).

I dunno, obviously this is purely based on Jackson flourishing. If he shows something early in the year off the bench, I think you have to get him on the field with Jaire and King.

They'll figure it out, but it's nice to just play with lineups in your head.

Pettine I believe has stated he thinks Jackson's spot is in the slot. I just don't see it. We'll see.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:29

Pettine I believe has stated he thinks Jackson's spot is in the slot. I just don't see it. We'll see.

I was absolutely in love with Jackson coming out of college. Thought that was a great get, and the jury is still out on him in my mine. Several have already written him off. He was a ball hawk, hopefully he can show up this year.

Packfntk wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:42

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:29

Pettine I believe has stated he thinks Jackson's spot is in the slot. I just don't see it. We'll see.

I was absolutely in love with Jackson coming out of college. Thought that was a great get, and the jury is still out on him in my mine. Several have already written him off. He was a ball hawk, hopefully he can show up this year.

Being in Iowa, I see plenty of Iowa games. I thought the guy could flat out play. He definitely has a knack of finding the ball, but we need to see this transition over to the pro level.... and I think we see glimpses of it, but some of his speed prevents him to really finding his groove. Honestly, he reminded me of Hyde, another Iowa guy: has the size, strength, and knack for the ball, just not a whole lot of speed.

But, yeah, Jackson was probably my favorite Iowa prospect to watch since Bob Sanders back in 2003.

Packfntk wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2020 16:42

I was absolutely in love with Jackson coming out of college. Thought that was a great get, and the jury is still out on him in my mine. Several have already written him off. He was a ball hawk, hopefully he can show up this year.

I have a lot of faith in our new DB coach Jerry Gray and listening to Jaire and others talk about him - he sounds like he's making a difference already. Maybe Gray's tutelage + Jacksons' development turn Josh into a viable CB

Josh Jackson was targeted a lot last year. Competent qbs would change the play to throw it to his guy. Absolutely could not man cover crossing routes. He needs to make a jump to be serviceable otherwise a cut candidate imo.

just my opinion but to me the toughest part from college to pro for a DB is reaction time, things happen so much faster in the first 10 yrds at this level, and I think that becomes obvious when you see a guy like Jackson struggle, you have to get into the coverage fast or you'll be roasted.

zone and off man allow for that, you get to see the hip shifts, and cordinate that with being able to see the QB's first look, we all loved press man when we had the CB's that where good at it (shields, Williams, Harris), however the forgivness built into off coverage, the ability to hawk the QB, as well as the ability to see run and defend the edge makes zone the more versatile scheme imo.