Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:28

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:23

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 07:52

Maybe im wrong, I certainly can respect and see your side of the debate. I just disagree with it myself. I think the staff has had a side eye turned at Love since day one and there are all kinds of conclusions they can draw from a year of practice.

How does he command the practice squad huddle? Can He remember the plays hes asked to execute? Is he accurate? Does he make the right read?
Lots of answers to be gathered. Nothing final of course, that comes on gameday. I just think they have "some" "pretty good idea" of what they have, and that amount is way more than many are considering. They have had the guy in the QB room for a year and every practice, I think they know alot.

As far as the third string and practice squad, wouldnt that be who goes up against the #1 Packer D in practice? Just playing an offense that resembles the opponents?

While I respect your respectful retort, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

While yes you can gleam some things like, "is Love accurate, does he have the arm we thought we did, do teammates respect him, does he remember the plays, does command the huddle etc.", there is still a lot of unknowns after just one year of play.

Rodgers didn't have the respect in 2005. He had shown some traits and shown command of the huddle, but it wasn't until the 2006 QB school that MM said he took that first leap.

Just because there is still unknown about Love after one year does not make him a failure or a bad selection. Year 2 is where you would expect to see more of that growth, confidence, ability etc. Internally, I would expect this is the training camp where coaches will see if they have something in Love or not.

Always good to show respect to fellow packers fans in a friendly debate

I do agree there is still much more to know, I just think much more is known than some are giving credit for. Just my opinion, probably not changing any minds tho

remember this word? MOST QB's that are drafted to play in the NFL have the physical tool box to succeed I purposely didn't use the word ALL when composing my post because I figured someone would counter my comment.

I stick with my point of MOST though do have the physical gifts, most can make all the throws and have strong arms, and most ( at least now days) have the speed and agility to escape pressure and the pocket as long as they see it coming, so it's my contention that almost 2/3 rd bust because they lack the mental ability to play football at the nfl level given the time restraints teams allow prior to starting them, it's the main reason I don't want us to rush Love into action.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:44

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:28

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:23

While I respect your respectful retort, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

While yes you can gleam some things like, "is Love accurate, does he have the arm we thought we did, do teammates respect him, does he remember the plays, does command the huddle etc.", there is still a lot of unknowns after just one year of play.

Rodgers didn't have the respect in 2005. He had shown some traits and shown command of the huddle, but it wasn't until the 2006 QB school that MM said he took that first leap.

Just because there is still unknown about Love after one year does not make him a failure or a bad selection. Year 2 is where you would expect to see more of that growth, confidence, ability etc. Internally, I would expect this is the training camp where coaches will see if they have something in Love or not.

Always good to show respect to fellow packers fans in a friendly debate

I do agree there is still much more to know, I just think much more is known than some are giving credit for. Just my opinion, probably not changing any minds tho

No for sure. MLF absolutely knows more than we do. I won't disagree with that. And just based on the body language of the Packers not being in love with going with Love right now, it tells me that Love likely ain't ready.

Because he isn't ready though in my mind doesn't make his selection a failure where I think many others would say it is.

I can agree with that too. There is a further discussion to be had about "is pissing off the HOF QB for a multi year project the right move" but just in terms of this discussion...I think it is fair to say that just because he is not ready right now, that does not mean he will never be ready.

I would just say that for the year 2021...I do think the coaches know he is not ready right now. They do not want to have to trot him out in 2021 and thats why they are scared to lose Rodgers. If they felt he was ready, they would feel good to get loot for 12 and ride with Love.

I agree they may be unsure about Love in the future, but for now i think they have seen enough to know he is not ready at the moment to drive this nice car.

Is it really true that Rodgers isn't surrounded by enough talent? We made it to the NFCC game 2 years in a row. Unfortunately we didn't play as well as we usually do in these games and we came up short. I just get a feeling AR wants security more than more money. Let's hope this is resolved soon. Nobody wins the longer this is drawn out.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:44

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:28

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:23

While I respect your respectful retort, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

While yes you can gleam some things like, "is Love accurate, does he have the arm we thought we did, do teammates respect him, does he remember the plays, does command the huddle etc.", there is still a lot of unknowns after just one year of play.

Rodgers didn't have the respect in 2005. He had shown some traits and shown command of the huddle, but it wasn't until the 2006 QB school that MM said he took that first leap.

Just because there is still unknown about Love after one year does not make him a failure or a bad selection. Year 2 is where you would expect to see more of that growth, confidence, ability etc. Internally, I would expect this is the training camp where coaches will see if they have something in Love or not.

Always good to show respect to fellow packers fans in a friendly debate

I do agree there is still much more to know, I just think much more is known than some are giving credit for. Just my opinion, probably not changing any minds tho

No for sure. MLF absolutely knows more than we do. I won't disagree with that. And just based on the body language of the Packers not being in love with going with Love right now, it tells me that Love likely ain't ready.

Because he isn't ready though in my mind doesn't make his selection a failure where I think many others would say it is.

who are these others you refer to? this is so like your Gary comments towards me, again my opinions concerning a draft pick have always concerned the position choice and not the player, I have nothing against LOVE, just as I had nothing against Gary, I simply disagreed with the decision the gm made.

Love is ready enough. He should know the playbook. He should know his receivers and his blockers. Now he just needs to play. Waiting another year just delays his progress.

Trade Rodgers and Love plus the players the Packers get for Rodgers will take the Packers to 3 SB's in 2022 - 2025. Or keep Rodgers and get bounced in the playoffs this season and next and get nothing for him thereafter.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:44

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:28

Always good to show respect to fellow packers fans in a friendly debate

I do agree there is still much more to know, I just think much more is known than some are giving credit for. Just my opinion, probably not changing any minds tho

No for sure. MLF absolutely knows more than we do. I won't disagree with that. And just based on the body language of the Packers not being in love with going with Love right now, it tells me that Love likely ain't ready.

Because he isn't ready though in my mind doesn't make his selection a failure where I think many others would say it is.

who are these others you refer to? this is so like your Gary comments towards me, again my opinions concerning a draft pick have always concerned the position choice and not the player, I have nothing against LOVE, just as I had nothing against Gary, I simply disagreed with the decision the gm made.

Contrary to popular belief yoop, not all my posts are about you.

You and I very much align in our beliefs of the Love pick at the time and also the ability to process and move on about Love the player. I have no qualms with your posts about Love, wanting to not rush things and excited he could be a great player for us if he is called upon.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 09:15

Contrary to popular belief yoop, not all my posts are about you.

It's not popular belief, it's singular. And it's apparently unyielding.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:45

I agree with this, but it is also disengenious and shortsighted to look at Pat Mahommes as a teammate warrior. Rodgers was relatively cheap too in 2018.

Mahommes and the Chiefs will have their judgement day pretty soon. People seem to think the Chiefs are set up for a long, long time. When in reality they likely have 2 years or so before things get really tough on them like they did on the Packers after Rodgers success in the early 2010's.

That Mahomes contract structure is brilliant and innovative and only possible in rare circumstances like "we have an MVP QB two years into his career who wants to and is willing to commit to us for 12 years."

They're in pretty good shape for like 8 of those 12 years, even as the number gets BIG, it's rise will be steady and slow thanks to annual automatic restructures and is unlikely to really outpace cap growth.

But yeah, to the overall point, the Packers could do more if Rodgers played on a discount, like Brady has for most of his career.

Below-market Hall of Fame QBs are the ticket to SB wins, and we had that on Rodgers' first deal, and not since.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 09:15

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 08:44

No for sure. MLF absolutely knows more than we do. I won't disagree with that. And just based on the body language of the Packers not being in love with going with Love right now, it tells me that Love likely ain't ready.

Because he isn't ready though in my mind doesn't make his selection a failure where I think many others would say it is.

who are these others you refer to? this is so like your Gary comments towards me, again my opinions concerning a draft pick have always concerned the position choice and not the player, I have nothing against LOVE, just as I had nothing against Gary, I simply disagreed with the decision the gm made.

Contrary to popular belief yoop, not all my posts are about you.

You and I very much align in our beliefs of the Love pick at the time and also the ability to process and move on about Love the player. I have no qualms with your posts about Love, wanting to not rush things and excited he could be a great player for us if he is called upon.

oh, most here seem to agree with everything the FO does, including using a 4 round pick to move up and take Love versus almost anything that would have helped the team more in the next 2 or 3 years, I never want to rush a QB, I think part of the reason Rodgers became great is because he wasn't rushed into starting, I think all QB's should sit at least a year, some two years, as I said I think rushing them is a big reason for the high bust rate.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:30

oh, most here seem to agree with everything the FO does, including using a 4 round pick to move up and take Love versus almost anything that would have helped the team more in the next 2 or 3 years.

This could not be more false and honestly it is getting incredibly annoying that this keeps getting brought up. This whole "FO bootlicker" nonsense is so old.

This entire forum was not happy about the Love pick or honestly even the Dillon pick last year save for a very small minority (I honestly can't think of one). This board was an angry place when it happened. You just had some people who were able to compartmentalize the pick, see why the pick was made and move on. You also have those that support the player because he is a Packer.

But what is most important, and I cannot understate this enough, is the Packers lost in the NFC Title game, and because we lost, obviously every Packer fan is disappointed, sad and angry. We as Packers fans want to point as to why the Packers lost and you generally have two camps.

1. The Front Office failed Aaron Rodgers Camp - this is thought that the GM is wrong and didn't supply Rodgers the talent to get it done. This is a very popular rallying cry for those who like Rodgers the player beyond what a normal fan would. They also likely felt this way about Favre and Thompson. But anyway, beyond this, this group has setup narratives about Rodgers and the Packers failure based primarily on late stages of the TT era after the Packers lost to the Seahawks in the NFC Title game and their reboot of the 2015 - 2017 era was an overall failure. Things like "Rodgers has carried this team on his back for a decade" is largely due to two passes in the 2015 season and the final 6 game stretch in the 2016 season. This group can't get this period out of their mind and are therefore projecting their anger from this period onto the current GM who was not in charge during the Packers failure period. The coach by and large gets a pass because people like him.

2. The players and coaches failed to make a play when they needed Camp - this camp states that the FO built a good enough roster, due to being a #1 seed, to win it all and once you get to the final 4 you need to rely on your players and coaches to win the game. This camp was admittedly not happy with the Love pick due to its position but ultimately has come to the decision that the 2020 draft had no material impact on the 2020 Packers season and placing blame on this is absolutely ridiculous, annoying and lazy.

The biggest reason why people point at the 2020 NFL draft as their "example" of how the FO completely failed Rodgers is because it is by and large the only example they can think of. Beyond that, some will pepper in Antonio Brown or Will Fuller to try and get current relevant arguments but the Packers did reach out to AB and Fuller was suspended the week after the Packers decided to not trade for him. Drafting Rashan Gary or AJ Dillon was also an early favorite argument to use until fans saw that they are likely going to be pretty damned good and how nice it is to have a replacement on the team for the post Williams/Jones era or someone to replace a sucky Preston Smith.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:30

most here seem to agree with everything the FO does,

I do believe you really believe that.

I have no problem saying faults of the FO.

Things I disagree with about the Packers is not addressing the ILB position or DT enough. I will give credit that 3rd round picks were used on Adams and Burks but those are positions like the Oline where I would like to see the Packers spend more picks on it to see if one could hit. Similar to what the Vikings do.

I also disagreed with bringing back Preston Smith and Dean Lowry when I thought it was time to move on.

But the revisionist arguments of "oh we should have drafted Fant instead of Gary" turning to "we should have drafted Simmons over Gary" once Tonyan became good to then being quiet completely after Dillon and the Packers made Simmons look like a fool and Gary had a great December so now let's just talk about Metcalf and Justin Jefferson and keep hashing it in every thread every day.

That's what gets annoying.

I guess when I take a step back, I see a team that has improved dramatically in two years. I see a team that went from firing its coach to become a top 3 NFC team to likely the best team in the NFC in two years. Overall I am very pleased with that when looking at how the team was assembled from a personnel standpoint. Absolutely there were moves that could have been made to be better but there were also many plays that should have been made when the opportunity was there.

And from my perspective, you have to capitalize on the opportunity when they are there. And because Brady has and the Packers haven't, Brady has 7 rings and the Packers have 1. Where it could have and should have easily been the Packers had 4 rings and Brady 5 (since 2007).

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:58

1. The Front Office failed Aaron Rodgers Camp - this is thought that the GM is wrong and didn't supply Rodgers the talent to get it done. This is a very popular rallying cry for those who like Rodgers the player beyond what a normal fan would. They also likely felt this way about Favre and Thompson. But anyway, beyond this, this group has setup narratives about Rodgers and the Packers failure based primarily on late stages of the TT era after the Packers lost to the Seahawks in the NFC Title game and their reboot of the 2015 - 2017 era was an overall failure. Things like "Rodgers has carried this team on his back for a decade" is largely due to two passes in the 2015 season and the final 6 game stretch in the 2016 season. This group can't get this period out of their mind and are therefore projecting their anger from this period onto the current GM who was n

they did fail Rodgers, and to think a slot receiver wouldn't or couldn't have made a difference when we where on the 8 yrd line deny's the ability of how Cobb so often got open for us in the past.

how long have I complained about Rodgers lacking talent at WR, since 015 and 016, since then we gave him 3 mid rounders that till last year with MVS didn't amount to any real help at all, and every time I complained You brought up Nelson or Cobb when both where a shadow of the prime years.

and the only reason this is front burner stuff now is that Rodgers intends to sit out the season because Guty decided Rodgers replacement was more important then getting his HOF QB a better receiver for last year.

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:04

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:30

most here seem to agree with everything the FO does,

I do believe you really believe that.

I do, every time I bring up something I dislike I'am dealt a barrage of reasons why I'am wrong, so what would you think?

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:28

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:04

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:30

most here seem to agree with everything the FO does,

I do believe you really believe that.

I do, every time I bring up something I dislike I'am dealt a barrage of reasons why I'am wrong, so what would you think?

To be fair, Yoop, many here are owners of the team so when they defend the front office they are just being good bosses and sticking up for their employees.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:22

But the revisionist arguments of "oh we should have drafted Fant instead of Gary" turning to "we should have drafted Simmons over Gary" once Tonyan became good to then being quiet completely after Dillon and the Packers made Simmons look like a fool and Gary had a great December so now let's just talk about Metcalf and Justin Jefferson and keep hashing it in every thread every day.

mostly BS

I wanted anything besides a pass rusher, since we'd just spent over 100 m on two of em in FA, mostly I was upset about drafting for the future, just as Guty did again with the Love pick.

Dillon was insurance in case we lost Jones, and who saw Tonyan coming?

Drj820 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:34

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:28

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:04

I do believe you really believe that.

I do, every time I bring up something I dislike I'am dealt a barrage of reasons why I'am wrong, so what would you think?

To be fair, Yoop, many here are owners of the team so when they defend the front office they are just being good bosses and sticking up for their employees.

my family has owned stock since 1950, I also bought stock during the last 2 stock sales, which makes me a triple stock owner, so I think that gives me a higher owner rating then the rest of u's guys

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:28

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:04

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 11:30

most here seem to agree with everything the FO does,

I do believe you really believe that.

I do, every time I bring up something I dislike I'am dealt a barrage of reasons why I'am wrong, so what would you think?

Should probably not think and just read what people say.

As in you’ve said that 300x, let’s move on.

Somehow you read that as I completely disagree with you and think the opposite.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:26

how long have I complained about Rodgers lacking talent at WR, since 015 and 016, since then we gave him 3 mid rounders that till last year with MVS didn't amount to any real help at all, and every time I complained You brought up Nelson or Cobb when both where a shadow of the prime years.

To this day I think Brian Gutekunsts's worst move as a GM from a personnel standpoint was to release Jordy Nelson early and swap him with Jimmy Graham.

I don't know why people have this narrative that Jordy Nelson was washed up when the data suggests he wasn't. He was really good in 2016 and the first part of 2017. Definitely good enough to be the #2 as Adams started to ascend to that lead role.

This is something I can get behind when bashing the FO. The swap of Graham for Nelson was terrible and stupid.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 13:13

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 May 2021 12:26

how long have I complained about Rodgers lacking talent at WR, since 015 and 016, since then we gave him 3 mid rounders that till last year with MVS didn't amount to any real help at all, and every time I complained You brought up Nelson or Cobb when both where a shadow of the prime years.

To this day I think Brian Gutekunsts's worst move as a GM from a personnel standpoint was to release Jordy Nelson early and swap him with Jimmy Graham.

I don't know why people have this narrative that Jordy Nelson was washed up when the data suggests he wasn't. He was really good in 2016 and the first part of 2017. Definitely good enough to be the #2 as Adams started to ascend to that lead role.

This is something I can get behind when bashing the FO. The swap of Graham for Nelson was terrible and stupid.

ehhh, I think Nelson struggled the last 2 years with us, it took him forever to get over the ACL, that his 3rd year was better was like his last hurrah, I agree though with Graham he had to big a name, defenses stuck him with quality coverage and he had a hard time over coming it

I think Graham was part of McCarthy trying to transition to a shorter route tree, more small ball, course we can't be sure of it as Mike was so good at disguising what it was he actually was trying to do we are all still in a state of confusion over what that actually was, Aaron Rodgers probably more then anyone.

Cobb to seemed like he hit a wall after playing through and with so many dingy's, it's why I wanted to start reloading receivers as soon as Nelson was hurt, Ted took his cue from Wolfs comment when he said I should have gotten more bullets for Favres 6 shooter,lol, within 5 years Ted took 3 high drafted WR's and Jones in round 3, thats how important Ted thought receivers are to help a QB win.

and I think minus Teds decline he would have loaded up the WR position again, and it wouldn't have been with guys like I referred to as the 3 stooges, sure obviously now with 3 years under there belt one has improved, but we could have used much more then they could deliver.

ya know possibly if people would agree with me more, I'd drop my complaints and move on, but that it seems rarely happens.