Packers Huddle

salmar80 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:47

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:36

salmar80 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 17:58

I know you are no fan of Love's, but that's brutal. Because Fields sucked last season, sucked in his first game this year, and is with da Bears who still suck. Da Bears paid over twice the price we paid for Love (2 waaaaaay higher first rounders, a 4th and a 5th), have nothing else at QB, and can't afford him not starting.

fields didnt suck last year

Oh, c'mon! If this were Love's statline, you'd be calling it sucking all day all night.
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Let it go Dr. What is Savage fifth yr option? That can not happen much like Dix imo.

Fields is better than Love based on what we have seen to date.

bud fox wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 19:27

Fields is better than Love based on what we have seen to date.

Not sure I’d say that.

I could not in good faith argue Fields has looked better, however…

salmar80 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:07

APB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:01

Would you rather exercise a $20 mil fifth yr option or extend him on a 3-4 yr deal that pays him moderately well backup money?

IF the Packers view him as a future starter, and Love were dumb enough to take a cheap extension, hell yeah the Packers should do it.

But Love wouldn't and shouldn't take such an extension.

If the Packers wouldn't want to commit to him and show it by using the option, he should let the contract run out and go to a QB -needy team. The only reason to take it would be if he's resigned to being a career backup, and if that were the case, I wouldn't want him on the team.

If Live isn't optioned for year 5, the best he will get on the open market is a 2-3 year deal for backup money.

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 17:25

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 14:21

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 13:50

Justin Fields will be a lot better QB in the NFL than Love.

Based on what evidence?

Their play.

Any specifics? Wasn't Field's QB rating a 26?

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:09

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 14:21

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 13:50

Justin Fields will be a lot better QB in the NFL than Love.

Based on what evidence?

A hunch

Randy Wright's career QB rating is 61.4. Majik's Packers QB rating is 73.5.

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 20:28

salmar80 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:07

APB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:01

Would you rather exercise a $20 mil fifth yr option or extend him on a 3-4 yr deal that pays him moderately well backup money?

IF the Packers view him as a future starter, and Love were dumb enough to take a cheap extension, hell yeah the Packers should do it.

But Love wouldn't and shouldn't take such an extension.

If the Packers wouldn't want to commit to him and show it by using the option, he should let the contract run out and go to a QB -needy team. The only reason to take it would be if he's resigned to being a career backup, and if that were the case, I wouldn't want him on the team.

If Live isn't optioned for year 5, the best he will get on the open market is a 2-3 year deal for backup money.

Yeah, Sal, I think you're inflating Love's value a bit (and Love himself would be too) if you think he'll get anywhere near $20mil with what he's shown thus far coupled with the Packers not exercising the 5th yr option.

Fields and Love are both stinky.

I recognize that teams HAVE to get the QB position right. And I know a first and fourth constitute a sizable investment.

I’m just struggling to care that much more about this pick than I do about any underwhelming pick. We’ve got our QB. We’ve got a strong roster. I’m looking forward to this year.

It seems like every year, for one preseason month, the Jordan Love conversation takes on such outsized importance to how fans feel about their team and front office relative to the likely minuscule impact he will have on this season.

It’s worth discussion certainly! And having a thread to itself, also. But the tone of it always bums me out as it creeps into everything.

Anyway, Love still hasn’t given us reason for optimism; not reason to totally give up and cut bait. So the decision in 7 months will be interesting to monitor.

APB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 21:57

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 20:28

salmar80 wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:07

IF the Packers view him as a future starter, and Love were dumb enough to take a cheap extension, hell yeah the Packers should do it.

But Love wouldn't and shouldn't take such an extension.

If the Packers wouldn't want to commit to him and show it by using the option, he should let the contract run out and go to a QB -needy team. The only reason to take it would be if he's resigned to being a career backup, and if that were the case, I wouldn't want him on the team.

If Live isn't optioned for year 5, the best he will get on the open market is a 2-3 year deal for backup money.

Yeah, Sal, I think you're inflating Love's value a bit (and Love himself would be too) if you think he'll get anywhere near $20mil with what he's shown thus far coupled with the Packers not exercising the 5th yr option.

I'm not trying to inflate his value. In the first response to this thread I said he hasn't shown enough to be worth the option.

I'm just saying that if the Packers don't use the option, I would start slowly packing my bags if I were Love. No way would I sign an extension for backup money with GB after they did that. It would be a bad business decision to take an extension at the point of least leverage, and no ambitious QB with the aim to start in this league would accept that.

I'd request a trade to a QB -desperate team, or try to put as much good stuff on tape as possible year 4, and then take the best available deal in FA for the best chance at starting. Not saying that would mean any more money than GB's backup offer, but at least there could be choices. And if AR retired after the 2023 season, the Packers might be one of the suitors.

You seem to think this extension could be possible. How? I don't get your logic. Do you think Love would look at his own tape and think "yeaaaah, I suck. I guess I'll just take this insulting deal and be a career backup."?

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 20:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:09

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 14:21

Based on what evidence?

A hunch

Randy Wright's career QB rating is 61.4. Majik's Packers QB rating is 73.5.

and Love's was 66 friday night, with 2 picks that weren't his fault, 4 dropped passes, and receivers that will smell pine once the season starts.

easy to see the pace of the game is starting to slow down for love, sure he's still hurrying some throws and is still off target on others, mostly do to jitters, tension, hopefully that improves with the next two games.
Fans who think they know whether a QB has it or not are just guessing, history is loaded with situations just like we are dealing with now.

Bart Starr was a 17th round draft choice of the Green Bay Packers in 1956. Three years later, his playing time was still limited and his football future appeared in doubt. That's when Vince Lombardi took over as the Packers coach, an event that may have saved Bart's NFL career.

hell we drafted Hornung because the coaches thought Bart was a bust

Heres 20 more QB's that took time and the right situation to prove they had what it takes

https://stacker.com/stories/4143/nfl-late-bloomer-qbs

all of these guys struggled early, then became quality starters, people seem to think if a QB isn't starting and doing well as a rookie or second season there a bust, and that just isn't true.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 00:02

You seem to think this extension could be possible. How? I don't get your logic. Do you think Love would look at his own tape and think "yeaaaah, I suck. I guess I'll just take this insulting deal and be a career backup."?

I think Love looks at his tape and says "yeah, I just haven't shown it yet."

He then asks himself - "Where's the best opportunity for me going forward to see the most success? Demanding a trade all while getting into a potential PR battle with an organization and fan base that is massive? Going to a new team that is desperate for production at the position I haven't shown any consistency at and where the new fan base will be expecting immediate impact from a 5th year player? Learning an entirely new offense that may be led by the likes of a Nagy or Judge or Davidson or Koetter?

"Or maybe I stick with the team that's shown me great patience, has a proven offense and coaching staff that I am intimately familiar with and simply need to refine my game, and a team that will have an opening at my position within the very near future thus giving me my opportunity to start in an environment where I'd be most comfortable and supported and maybe, just maybe, parlay a middling contract into a career that has boundless potential for earnings."

I don't know, [mention]salmar80[/mention]. Seems like there's a pretty logical choice there to me.

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 05:39

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 20:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 18:09

A hunch

Randy Wright's career QB rating is 61.4. Majik's Packers QB rating is 73.5.

and Love's was 66 friday night, with 2 picks that weren't his fault, 4 dropped passes, and receivers that will smell pine once the season starts.

easy to see the pace of the game is starting to slow down for love, sure he's still hurrying some throws and is still off target on others, mostly do to jitters, tension, hopefully that improves with the next two games.
Fans who think they know whether a QB has it or not are just guessing, history is loaded with situations just like we are dealing with now.

Bart Starr was a 17th round draft choice of the Green Bay Packers in 1956. Three years later, his playing time was still limited and his football future appeared in doubt. That's when Vince Lombardi took over as the Packers coach, an event that may have saved Bart's NFL career.

hell we drafted Hornung because the coaches thought Bart was a bust

Heres 20 more QB's that took time and the right situation to prove they had what it takes

https://stacker.com/stories/4143/nfl-late-bloomer-qbs

all of these guys struggled early, then became quality starters, people seem to think if a QB isn't starting and doing well as a rookie or second season there a bust, and that just isn't true.

Consider comparing Love to Donovan McNabb for a minute, owing to their "potentially" comparable mobility factors.

McNabb ended up with a QB rating of 85, and a TD to INT ratio of about 2 : 1. Why compare Love to McNabb? ............because they both seem to have accuracy issues combined with good mobility. Even with McNabb's well-documented accuracy issues McNabb is considered a "good enough" NFL QB to take a team to the NFC Championship Game. McNabb is ranked 9th all-time for QB rushing behind Cam, Cunningham, Young, Vick, Jackson, Tarkenton, Wilson, McNair. Just a random thought.........maybe Clements can fix Love's accuracy and judgement problems.

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 06:32

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 05:39

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

14 Aug 2022 20:37

Randy Wright's career QB rating is 61.4. Majik's Packers QB rating is 73.5.

and Love's was 66 friday night, with 2 picks that weren't his fault, 4 dropped passes, and receivers that will smell pine once the season starts.

easy to see the pace of the game is starting to slow down for love, sure he's still hurrying some throws and is still off target on others, mostly do to jitters, tension, hopefully that improves with the next two games.
Fans who think they know whether a QB has it or not are just guessing, history is loaded with situations just like we are dealing with now.

Bart Starr was a 17th round draft choice of the Green Bay Packers in 1956. Three years later, his playing time was still limited and his football future appeared in doubt. That's when Vince Lombardi took over as the Packers coach, an event that may have saved Bart's NFL career.

hell we drafted Hornung because the coaches thought Bart was a bust

Heres 20 more QB's that took time and the right situation to prove they had what it takes

https://stacker.com/stories/4143/nfl-late-bloomer-qbs

all of these guys struggled early, then became quality starters, people seem to think if a QB isn't starting and doing well as a rookie or second season there a bust, and that just isn't true.

Consider comparing Love to Donovan McNabb for a minute, owing to their "potentially" comparable mobility factors.

McNabb ended up with a QB rating of 85, and a TD to INT ratio of about 2 : 1. Why compare Love to McNabb? ............because they both seem to have accuracy issues combined with good mobility. Even with McNabb's well-documented accuracy issues McNabb is considered a "good enough" NFL QB to take a team to the NFC Championship Game. McNabb is ranked 9th all-time for QB rushing behind Cam, Cunningham, Young, Vick, Jackson, Tarkenton, Wilson, McNair. Just a random thought.........maybe Clements can fix Love's accuracy and judgement problems.

lets not forget Bobby "scooter" Douglas, couldn't pass for &%$@, but ran for almost 900 yrds one season for the Bears

APB wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 06:28

salmar80 wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022 00:02

You seem to think this extension could be possible. How? I don't get your logic. Do you think Love would look at his own tape and think "yeaaaah, I suck. I guess I'll just take this insulting deal and be a career backup."?

I think Love looks at his tape and says "yeah, I just haven't shown it yet."

He then asks himself - "Where's the best opportunity for me going forward to see the most success? Demanding a trade all while getting into a potential PR battle with an organization and fan base that is massive? Going to a new team that is desperate for production at the position I haven't shown any consistency at and where the new fan base will be expecting immediate impact from a 5th year player? Learning an entirely new offense that may be led by the likes of a Nagy or Judge or Davidson or Koetter?

"Or maybe I stick with the team that's shown me great patience, has a proven offense and coaching staff that I am intimately familiar with and simply need to refine my game, and a team that will have an opening at my position within the very near future thus giving me my opportunity to start in an environment where I'd be most comfortable and supported and maybe, just maybe, parlay a middling contract into a career that has boundless potential for earnings."

I don't know, @salmar80. Seems like there's a pretty logical choice there to me.

Yeah, I can see some merit in that. But it's not as if the team doesn't benefit from a QB who knows the system inside and out, too...

I think, if I were Love, I'd still wait until hitting FA and see what's out there. Would also give another pre-season and maybe some regular season games to try to do the proving. If he remains a backup until then, not much injury risk. And I don't think it's fitting of a supposed team leader to grovel.

Once getting to FA, it would kinda depend on the situation around the league. Not all other teams are crap, and not all offenses totally alien. As a FA (or approaching it) he'd also see just how much the Packers really want him back.

I am just always super skeptical when thinking about a team's intentions with extensions. It's a harsh business, and guarantees talk louder than words. If someone gives you a backup -level deal, can you really count on being supported and actually being given the chance to start? I wouldn't. I'd only take that deal if nothing better was available around the league (which may well be the case for Love).

I guess a very short, preferably 1-year prove-it deal could be tolerable. I do think a long-term, low-level extension is outta the picture: Love shoulda learned about AR getting fooled into a long term deal just before hitting stardom, and how much that cost him. As a Packers fan, I sure enjoyed how much the organization benefited from bamboozling AR into taking that deal, but that was a baaaaaad contract from AR's point of view.

I do have to admit: The best case for the team and probably us fans would be for Love to take a foolish deal and then become a star QB for us. That would increase SB chances a lot.

A lot of J-Love haters here. From what I have witnesssed, he is developing nicely. I agree with Gute, over some random fanboys, who have probably never seen Jordan throw a football live. It's impressive, he has an absolute cannon. The ball jumps off his hands.

Jordan played better than the average fanboy can comprehend against the Niners. Tonite, as Steno also alluded to the other day, I'd like to see him on target from the jump. He did have a couple not great throws early against San Fran that need to be on target and completions.

The 3 picks in the game allowed the haters to continue the narrative that Jordan will never amount to anything. The one bad pick didn't bother me. It happens.

Jordan needs to send the haters back to their holes in these last 2 preseason games.

I'm looking forward to seeing that happen.

I can not think of many backups in the league I would take over J-Love. All he can do is a get a little better each day. I think we will see tonite that he is indeed accomplishing that.

PackerNation wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022 07:42

A lot of J-Love haters here. From what I have witnesssed, he is developing nicely. I agree with Gute, over some random fanboys, who have probably never seen Jordan throw a football live. It's impressive, he has an absolute cannon. The ball jumps off his hands.

Jordan played better than the average fanboy can comprehend against the Niners. Tonite, as Steno also alluded to the other day, I'd like to see him on target from the jump. He did have a couple not great throws early against San Fran that need to be on target and completions.

The 3 picks in the game allowed the haters to continue the narrative that Jordan will never amount to anything. The one bad pick didn't bother me. It happens.

Jordan needs to send the haters back to their holes in these last 2 preseason games.

I'm looking forward to seeing that happen.

I can not think of many backups in the league I would take over J-Love. All he can do is a get a little better each day. I think we will see tonite that he is indeed accomplishing that.

Well said. Very few NFL QBs have the physical tool set that Love has. He was held back in college his final year with a new coaches, new system and most (or all?) New starters around him. Had he replicated the season before, he would have been top 5 pick.

Ettling will not be the guy. He doesn't have the tools and will never be able to do some of the things Love can do. There is a reason he has bounced around the league.

I am a big fan of Love and I think he will get there. But it is not a sure thing. I put some of the first 2 interceptions on Love as he was really rifling that ball in there, but it was mostly a WR issue. He just needs to get more comfortable and confident and I see he improved on that a great deal since Last season.

As far as fields goes - there is a lot there to work with. I didn't like him coming out of Ohio - thought he wouldn't make it and was happy when the Bears took him. But he did show some impressive skills. I think the Bears screwed up by starting him too soon. And that is the biggest advantage Love has. The luxury of learning and practicing before being thrown in there.

Best case:
Love looks great tonight and next weekend. Then sometime in in the next season Rodgers can't play and Love wins his first NFL regular season game behind an Oline that actually protects him, receivers that actually run their routs and don't drop his passes and a D and ST that play well.

Rodgers decides to play again in 2023. The Packers trade Love for a top 10 draft choice and a 2nd rounder and Love has a decent but unspectacular career.

As does Etling, a decent but unspectacular regular season career with a decent but unspectacular salary and the Packers are able to keep the best D in the league, a decent Oline, better than average RB's and a HOF receiver in Watson, a HOF OLB in Gary, a HOF ILB in Quay, and HOF linmen in Myers and Jenkins. But Etling turns into a badger come playoff time, he don't give a &%$@ that it he isn't supposed to be a SB QB, he just goes out there and takes what the D gives him and completes passes. Instead of psyching himself out as his predecessor did in playoff games.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022 08:50

Love looks great tonight and next weekend. Then sometime in in the next season Rodgers can't play and Love wins his first NFL regular season game behind an Oline that actually protects him, receivers that actually run their routs and don't drop his passes and a D and ST that play well.

Rodgers decides to play again in 2023. The Packers trade Love for a top 10 draft choice and a 2nd rounder and Love has a decent but unspectacular career.

No way I'm trading away Love in this scenario if, as you say, he shows it is finally clicking for him. In this scenario it is Rodgers being dealt away and the team QB position is once again solidified for the next decade.

APB wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022 10:30

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022 08:50

Love looks great tonight and next weekend. Then sometime in in the next season Rodgers can't play and Love wins his first NFL regular season game behind an Oline that actually protects him, receivers that actually run their routs and don't drop his passes and a D and ST that play well.

Rodgers decides to play again in 2023. The Packers trade Love for a top 10 draft choice and a 2nd rounder and Love has a decent but unspectacular career.

No way I'm trading away Love in this scenario if, as you say, he shows it is finally clicking for him. In this scenario it is Rodgers being dealt away and the team QB position is once again solidified for the next decade.

Absolutely agree. If Love starts showing, we slap that 5th year option and start serious planning on how we make Love our QB of the future.