Packers Huddle

BSA wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 12:57

I wouldn't move on from David AND even if GB did - there would be a line around the block to retain his services. Bak had a rough stretch ( to put it mildly ), but he's missed little time outside of this terrible episode. All of that is in the past per Bak and his MDs.The value of keeping him and Elgton together is immense - they are the OL anchor young Love needs to succeed. ( I would draft competition at RT though)

Nijman is a great swing OT, put him out there all season and they will work his weaknesses relentlessly.
Finding a swing OT in UDFA is already a huge win; let's not get greedy in asking him to hold down the LT spot long term.
That's a bridge too far imo.

BSA wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 13:58

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 13:19

He will be a 3rd year Pro. The move on train is a bit derailed at this point.

Here's Mike Wahle spending 20+ minutes breaking down film on Josh Myers. Really well done
Yoho, sorry to derail your offseason thread, but its definitely worth checking out

https://youtu.be/fDsNv_gFxCE

The film review starts at around the 7:20 mark, tons of interesting teaching points and the take away is that Myers needs more work on technique- especially his footwork the run game - but he has all the tools to be a long term starting OC. Yoho spending a 5th to deepen the position seems prudent, spending more is premature.

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 14:05

I see no downside to investing early in another guy of the Elgton, Hanson, Tom, Lucas Patrick mold, with the interior versatility.

I am by no means sold on JRJ yet, Elgton still might be our long term LT, 3 possible interior spots available. Worth as high as a late 1 or 2nd to get another body there with a lot of upside.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 14:08

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 14:05

I see no downside to investing early in another guy of the Elgton, Hanson, Tom, Lucas Patrick mold, with the interior versatility.

I am by no means sold on JRJ yet, Elgton still might be our long term LT, 3 possible interior spots available. Worth as high as a late 1 or 2nd to get another body there with a lot of upside.

Steve Avila, if he tests well enough to hit our minimal athleticism thresholds, is a great C/G option for that. He's probably in the 45 to 65 range draft stock wise. That's an investment that, as you said, could be JRJ insurance, could be Myers insurance (both guys have been less consistent than ideal), and could be "what if Jenkins ends up back at OT" insurance (though I don't like that and I think 2022 argued against it, it still may happen)

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 14:13

Funny you mentioned him, he was the exact guy I had in mind. Just dug into him this last week and loved him. Took him in my last PFF mock draft in the 3rd I believe. But seems like such a Packer type pick. Not sure if there is anything to it in the Creed Humphrey vs Josh Meyers decision, but Avila is a left handed center like Creed.

BF004 wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 14:05

I see no downside to investing early in another guy of the Elgton, Hanson, Tom, Lucas Patrick mold, with the interior versatility.

I am by no means sold on JRJ yet, Elgton still might be our long term LT, 3 possible interior spots available. Worth as high as a late 1 or 2nd to get another body there with a lot of upside.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 18:31

Does anybody here think we would place more priority on drafting LBs this year and into the future? I’m thinking like the Steelers draft. They seem to always spend high picks on LBs that can upgrade virtually any defense.

But you never know how long we’ll be able to keep Campbell.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 18:20

Ya know, since this is a thread about my opinions and since it keeps coming up both around the board and here specifically, let me lay out my Marcedes Lewis thoughts.

When someone says that they don't value Lewis, it may seem like a simple opinion; in many ways, it is. But I use that opinion as an indicator as to how people may view the game. Here's what I hear:

1. A TE's contributions only matter if they come in the passing game.
Look, in the modern game, the passing game is more important than the run game; I acknowledge that. But the TE position is, itself, complicated and difficult to learn specifically because it is the marriage of the run game and pass game. Nearly every team has a blocking TE whose primary responsibility is accentuating the run game by contributing in that regard. Lewis is, by and large, considered to be the actual best at that role--in the league. Multiple observers, multiple independent analysts... they say he's the best blocking TE in the league. It's a legitimate role, and we have the best at it.

2. Our team's players, officials, and coaches are lying to us
(or, you know better than they do)

Some people like our coach; some people like our GM; some people like our QB. Everyone on this board likes and respects at least one of those three guys, not to mention the numerous other players and position coaches who have weighed in. And to a man, they rave about his impact on the team. They talk about all the things he does that maybe fans don't see. They tell us that he has a positive impact on the field and in the locker room.

Certainly, there is always going to be some coachspeak. Certainly, there might be players silently resenting Lewis that don't feel they can speak up. But these comments often come unprompted. So when you say that this player doesn't add worthwhile value to the Packers, you either think you know better than the actual insider experts or you're so anti-authority that you can't trust anyone with anything that you don't know personally.

3. That veteran leadership and example don't matter
It's wild to me that when we find ourselves with an overly young team, which has happened in my adult fandom, fans regularly and routinely complain that we need more/better veteran leadership. Often, it is part of calls for more free agent signings or against "draft and develop." Which also means it is often the exact same types of fans and often the exact same fans that also dismiss Lewis.

I sometimes hear "hire him as a coach if you want that." I often hear "it's a young man's game and veteran leadership is for sentimentality." But it is very different to have a technically sound player with a tireless work ethic and respect from his peers than having a good coach. The players can't model themselves or their practice habits by a coach; their jobs are different. A lot of players come into the league from small programs and haven't seen what it looks like to be a pro. A lot of players come into the league and have always been better than their opponents and think they know what it means to work hard, but only because they've never really had to. A by-example leader in the room is a different story. When you say that Lewis does not add value to the team and the position room, I hear that you don't understand the usefulness of veteran leadership gaining the respect of the players in the room and leading by example.

---------------

So yes. I trash people mercilessly for expressing that opinion. And honestly, he's played 18 years. Maybe it's his time to go. That's fine. But when you just laugh at his foot speed or say he could be replaced by a body off the practice squad. We have the best blocking TE in the league by many accounts, a veteran leader, and a guy who the players, coaches, and management of our team will pound the table with passion when talking about; a guy the sideline jumps up and roots for on the bench when he makes a rare passing game contribution. That has leadership. That has wisdom. That has technical refinement, work ethic, and who appreciates all the details of the game.

If you don't see any value in that, I feel totally justified in wondering if you understand what makes football work; the people behind the stats; the human element of development and teamwork.... All of it.

That's my opinion; that's my indicator; that's why I come down hard.

If he moves on, he moves on. But saying that Darnell Washington "reminds you of Lewis" as a negative.... a guy who has played 18 seasons, made a pro bowl, and has the respect of all the grown men and egos that surround him. We could only be so lucky as to find the next Marcedes Lewis.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 22:57

A TE is useless IMO if they offer no value in the passing game. For an offense that wants to be deceptive and have your pass plays look like run plays and vise versa a TE that is adequate in both is important. A dominant blocker is cool if he offers anything in the passing game but Lewis doesn’t.

His value as a pass catcher is that he’s so &%$@ and unimportant to the opponents defense that they leave him open. It’s like security by obscurity in a sense.

Let’s get a little more athletic at the position and stop over paying for someone one dimensional.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2023 22:57

A TE is useless IMO if they offer no value in the passing game. For an offense that wants to be deceptive and have your pass plays look like run plays and vise versa a TE that is adequate in both is important. A dominant blocker is cool if he offers anything in the passing game but Lewis doesn’t.

His value as a pass catcher is that he’s so &%$@ and unimportant to the opponents defense that they leave him open. It’s like security by obscurity in a sense.

Let’s get a little more athletic at the position and stop over paying for someone one dimensional.

NCF wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2023 09:02

Lewis plays his role perfectly, but his salary is becoming prohibitive for someone that plays that role... even if it is really well when I think they can get similar production from someone on a rookie contract.