Did the people who put a lot of stock in Toure being brought up unprompted put the same stock in Winfree last year? I did, and I found it to be a mistake. Sometimes offseason coach speak is offseason coach speak.
I don't remember the coaches/mgmt talking up Winfree. 'Not saying it didn't happen, just don't remember ever putting stock in him because of their say so. I do remember Rodgers bringing him up a lot unprompted, and I remember putting a lot of stock into that, because that was a prerequisite to success at WR in the Rodgers era.
And like offseason coachspeak, sometimes Rodgers Speak is also nothing. At times it's a Myles White or Jared Abrederis thing where Rodgers likes the guy but they never see meaningful time on the field, but sometimes it's a Boykin, Geronimo, Kumerow, or hell even Lazard that actually ends up contributing more than a little. And the WR situation was fluid enough last year that he had a shot at seeing the field, just didn't quite get there.
But the flip side of coachspeak sometimes being just that is, sometimes it's more than just that. This year, WR1 is not open and WR2 likely isn't either, but everything else is even more up-for-grabs than last year.
I don't think this is just coach speak, because they don't have to even bring him up in the first place. I think they really do think he can be a (role) player, but that it's ultimately up to him and how well he shows out of the gate. Our coaches and admins can believe in him as strongly as they want, but he has to justify their faith to actually see the field and hold off the competition, both of which are out of the hands of those praising him.
By praising him unprompted, they are simply saying they belive he can justify their faith, not guaranteeing any role for him until he actually does.
So I expect WR3 will similarly "default" to Toure until Reed *takes* the job from him. I think that will happen around mid-season, give or take a few weeks.
I get it. I expect Toure to hold the job until Reed takes it as well. I just think that reed will take it within two weeks. He's an alpha. He's got the skills. He'll crush the comptetition.
So I expect WR3 will similarly "default" to Toure until Reed *takes* the job from him. I think that will happen around mid-season, give or take a few weeks.
I get it. I expect Toure to hold the job until Reed takes it as well. I just think that reed will take it within two weeks. He's an alpha. He's got the skills. He'll crush the comptetition.
Yeah I think Reed turns into our #2 quickly just like 85 did in 2006.
I am very bullish on Reed.
Re: #4 WR
Posted: 17 May 2023 08:52
by BF004
I liked Wicks a lot during the draft process. I think he is a little more ready to step in, even with a down year last year. And you have to take a down year at Virginia in 2022 in context. That program obviously had other things going on.
I voted for Wicks.
Nice informative video here.
Combine testing
Improved at pro day.
So underrated athlete. Good size, arm, hand. More than adequate speed, elite jumping. Can’t say I’ve seen elite agility popping on tape or anything, but doesn’t look like a limited athlete either, fair numbers at pro day.
Re: # 4 WR pt duex
Posted: 17 May 2023 10:57
by APB
Thread restarted with topic pertinent posts only.
Proceed.
Re: # 4 WR pt duex
Posted: 17 May 2023 11:03
by Acrobat
Ooooh, this is a good topic! Do I dare say that I voted for Toure based on the hype that his coaches gave him? Also, last year, Rodgers said that he thought Toure was too good to be a healthy scratch. Not sure what his ceiling is but I think he could definitely be a #4, if not #3 to start the season.
Re: # 4 WR pt duex
Posted: 17 May 2023 11:15
by Labrev
I predict:
WR1 = Watson.
WR2 = Doubs.
WR3-4: Toure/Reed, one more than the other at different points in the season, but largely interchangeable use through most of the year.
And then I expect Musgrave and to a lesser extent Kraft used like WRs ahead of the remaining guys; Wicks, DuBose, and Melton are largely competing for special teams snaps IMO and see the field only if/when injuries strike.
Re: # 4 WR pt duex
Posted: 17 May 2023 11:23
by Acrobat
Keke Coutee could be another option. Packers brought him in for a visit this week.
Re: #4 WR
Posted: 17 May 2023 11:33
by APB
Poll restarted. You'll need to reenter your choices.
For the sake of clarity, I limited it to 3 choices. Forgive me, [mention]BF004[/mention].
Why would you say this? What leads you to say that?
Sad that I have to say this, but innocent question.
Well in the original poll, Toure was running away with the #4 answer (10 to 5). And both [mention]NCF[/mention] and [mention]Labrev[/mention] specifically said they think Toure will likely be the #3, and given that there are only 8-10 active posters, I feel like having 2 outright statements is worth saying we may not have a consensus about WR3.
Why would you say this? What leads you to say that?
Sad that I have to say this, but innocent question.
Well in the original poll, Toure was running away with the #4 answer (10 to 5). And both @NCF and @Labrev specifically said they think Toure will likely be the #3, and given that there are only 8-10 active posters, I feel like having 2 outright statements is worth saying we may not have a consensus about WR3.
Oh ya, I agree we probably don't have consensus for #3. Just wondering who these many people were that had Toure at #3. It looked like most have Reed there, with maybe Toure pushing in some minds.
Oh ya, I agree we probably don't have consensus for #3. Just wondering who these many people were that had Toure at #3. It looked like most have Reed there, with maybe Toure pushing in some minds.
Yeah it was fewer than I thought upon review. Labrev said it twice (clarifying the second time that Reed may overtake him) and five pages of weird “debate” about Toure threw me off
I liked Wicks a lot during the draft process. I think he is a little more ready to step in, even with a down year last year. And you have to take a down year at Virginia in 2022 in context. That program obviously had other things going on.
I voted for Wicks.
Yeah I hated Wicks in the pre draft process but I had only looked at him in 22 and 21 was MUCH better.
The pro day improvement over the combine numbers was nice but the vast majority of sources (including RAS) still had him at 4.57, not 4.52. And a 4.57 pro day isn’t all that different from a 4.62 combine
That speed can work if you have other elite qualities, and I’m not sure if he will or won’t. Seems pretty borderline whether he makes it or not. Herman’s video basically saying he could be Adams-lite or J’Mon Moore 2.0 is around where I feel.
But if we get closer to the 2021 tape he could be first off the bench outside if Watson or Doubs miss time. But he also could get beaten out by a very similar player in DuBose who might have a bit more “it” factor, though a bit less juice.
I’m frustrated that we don’t have any other speed outside. If Watson misses time, where does the downfield threat come from?
Oh ya, I agree we probably don't have consensus for #3. Just wondering who these many people were that had Toure at #3. It looked like most have Reed there, with maybe Toure pushing in some minds.
Yeah it was fewer than I thought upon review. Labrev said it twice (clarifying the second time that Reed may overtake him) and five pages of weird “debate” about Toure threw me off
I think I made a similar clarification. I think Toure is probably a career #3 or #4, but I think he has kind of fast-tracked himself into #3, by default, for the time being, and I think it will take Reed a bit to overcome him completely on the depth chart. I also clarified that I expect very similar production from both players, so instead of this crystal cut Top-3, I see it more as a very clear Top-2 and Top-4.
I also love the shiny new toys as much as the next guy, but after Toure, I kind of like Bo Melton better than the lot.
I don’t know what to do with Melton. I wanted him a lot last year. I’m very glad we got him. Love his speed and ST potential. Like him as a developmental slot/gadget.
But Reed is a better receiver, a better punt returner, and has a similar overall skillset. Are we going to keep three primarily slot guys?
Or maybe Toure is more versatile than I’m giving him credit for and can be a backup to Doubs outside? Am I outside the norm in thinking of Toure primarily as a slot?
I also love the shiny new toys as much as the next guy, but after Toure, I kind of like Bo Melton better than the lot.
I don’t know what to do with Melton. I wanted him a lot last year. I’m very glad we got him. Love his speed and ST potential. Like him as a developmental slot/gadget.
But Reed is a better receiver, a better punt returner, and has a similar overall skillset. Are we going to keep three primarily slot guys?
Or maybe Toure is more versatile than I’m giving him credit for and can be a backup to Doubs outside? Am I outside the norm in thinking of Toure primarily as a slot?
I think so. I think Toure was kind of portrayed in that role from his draft profile, but I think he evolved into more than that in limited opportunities last year. Personally, I like him outside better.
