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Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:09
by lupedafiasco
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:07
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
that seems absolutely unreal. It was on script the past few years that we would jump out to leads and then try to hold on through the middle of the games.
Can you find that report?
It was on a radio show. Jason Wilde doesn’t just spout false claims. He said they don’t script plays. They script concepts. To me that’s your smoking gun in why things look so sloppy and disjointed early on.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 23 Oct 2023 10:54
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:11
Yoop wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:06
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 08:54
Lafleur has earned the benefit of the doubt to some extent. But now maybe those that spout off his win percentage with Rodgers will allow us to actually discuss whether he is a good coach or not. Im willing to give him the full year without I ever put him on any kind of hot seat. But I think if things continue to go bad, that he starts next year on the hot seat.
I hope he can turn it around. But the signs are not good. The team lacks identity. The team lacks toughness. We have seen no evolution of the offense. No one here can ever tell the forum what the "matt lafleur offense is" and thats a huge problem. Its a problem because when things get bad, teams have to have something they all know they can fall back on and rely on.
This team has no semblance of that at all.
team looks better, a lot better when the OL gets the job done, and when it's not, every aspect of the offense looks bad, seriously, prior to defenses (first 2 games) figuring this OL out the offense as a whole seemed better, plat calls seemed better, we had Jones and we ran better, and Love looked to make good decisions, threw more accurately, and showed some poise in the pocket, then we lost Bakh, then Jenkins, and pass rush has been a constant, and we rarely open run lanes.
we have a OL problem first and fore most, till we get that right, it's impossible to make a fair grade concerning anything else. jmo
Okay. Lets say I accept your premise that all of our problems stem from the OL. (I think most teams have a bad OL and they are forced to coach around it, but lets accept your premise)
Why was the OL so much better last year with basically the same personell? If anything it should be better as Myers is now a year older, Yosh hasnt been playing so allegedly someone better would be playing. Jenkins is back. I mean we basically didnt have Bakh last year anyways....
So who is responsible for the decline? I think calling all go routes on 3rd and 20 with a bad OL is a bad idea. I think we arent doing enough to compensate for the problem. Then I wonder why the regression. Is it all because Rodgers isnt telling them who to block presnap? You tell me what you think.
I think the issue stems from the HC
every year is a new team, players don't play the same year to year, health is not the same year to year, we all know this stuff, add it all together and this is what we are seeing, it only takes one broken wheel for the cart to stop, and we have more then just one.
I'am not defending anything, it is obviously worse then it should be, I see a coach trying anything he thinks might work, because everything else he's tried hasn't, I see a QB thinking about to many things, he is second guessing his reads, which naturally makes him late to trigger far to often.
now some of that I think is normal for any young QB, however we see it more with Love do to this porous OL, once shell shocked, your leery, more of it and it gets in your head.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 23 Oct 2023 19:28
by APB
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:09
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:07
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
that seems absolutely unreal. It was on script the past few years that we would jump out to leads and then try to hold on through the middle of the games.
Can you find that report?
It was on a radio show. Jason Wilde doesn’t just spout false claims. He said they don’t script plays. They script concepts. To me that’s your smoking gun in why things look so sloppy and disjointed early on.
I have serious doubts on the veracity of Wilde's claim.
If it were true, there'd be reporters, bloggers, media guys, and Twitter hacks all beating that drum. The first half woes are that obvious that a simple blame-the-coach excuse like that would be screamed from every corner of the interwebs.
When the claim receives more credibility other than a former team reporter on a radio show, I'll pay attention.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 03:44
by TheSkeptic
APB wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 19:28
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:09
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:07
that seems absolutely unreal. It was on script the past few years that we would jump out to leads and then try to hold on through the middle of the games.
Can you find that report?
It was on a radio show. Jason Wilde doesn’t just spout false claims. He said they don’t script plays. They script concepts. To me that’s your smoking gun in why things look so sloppy and disjointed early on.
I have serious doubts on the veracity of Wilde's claim.
If it were true, there'd be reporters, bloggers, media guys, and Twitter hacks all beating that drum. The first half woes are that obvious that a simple blame-the-coach excuse like that would be screamed from every corner of the interwebs.
When the claim receives more credibility other than a former team reporter on a radio show, I'll pay attention.
Most of the YouTube bloggers have repeated it. Some of them have said it rings true to them. Unless Love or Clifford or the PS QB were to verify it publicly, there will not be proof. I don't think the difference between a scripted concept and a scripted play would be obvious enough to other offensive players. Lets just say that it rings true. IMO not having a well rehearsed first series at least is inexcusable, and it is a logical explanation for the disaster that most of the first quarters have been.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 04:22
by williewasgreat
Holmgren once explained why he scripted the first 15 plays. It was merely to see how the defense responded to certain formations, lineups and motions. He said it had nothing to do with having a group of plays that should work against a certain team. He said they often went off-script depending on the situation. It was meant to help him determine how the defense would react to very specific circumstances.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 06:14
by CWIMM
Drj820 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:11
Why was the OL so much better last year with basically the same personell? If anything it should be better as Myers is now a year older, Yosh hasnt been playing so allegedly someone better would be playing. Jenkins is back. I mean we basically didnt have Bakh last year anyways....
So who is responsible for the decline? I think calling all go routes on 3rd and 20 with a bad OL is a bad idea. I think we arent doing enough to compensate for the problem. Then I wonder why the regression. Is it all because Rodgers isnt telling them who to block presnap? You tell me what you think.
I think the issue stems from the HC
Rodgers made up for a lot of shortcomings on the offensive line. With him gone it's pretty obvious the unit wasn't as good as many experts believed to begin with.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 06:59
by Pckfn23
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 03:44
APB wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 19:28
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 10:09
It was on a radio show. Jason Wilde doesn’t just spout false claims. He said they don’t script plays. They script concepts. To me that’s your smoking gun in why things look so sloppy and disjointed early on.
I have serious doubts on the veracity of Wilde's claim.
If it were true, there'd be reporters, bloggers, media guys, and Twitter hacks all beating that drum. The first half woes are that obvious that a simple blame-the-coach excuse like that would be screamed from every corner of the interwebs.
When the claim receives more credibility other than a former team reporter on a radio show, I'll pay attention.
Most of the YouTube bloggers have repeated it. Some of them have said it rings true to them. Unless Love or Clifford or the PS QB were to verify it publicly, there will not be proof. I don't think the difference between a scripted concept and a scripted play would be obvious enough to other offensive players. Lets just say that it rings true. IMO not having a well rehearsed first series at least is inexcusable, and it is a logical explanation for the disaster that most of the first quarters have been.
Can you point out where it has been repeated? I have not seen it repeated anywhere and I follow Packers bloggers, beat writers, pretty closely.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 07:34
by Yoop
williewasgreat wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 04:22
Holmgren once explained why he scripted the first 15 plays. It was merely to see how the defense responded to certain formations, lineups and motions. He said it had nothing to do with having a group of plays that should work against a certain team. He said they often went off-script depending on the situation. It was meant to help him determine how the defense would react to very specific circumstances.
thanks for that clarity
this topic has been brought up before, the scripted plays are to expose the defense, we just read a article last week pertaining to the RULES a defense live by concerning how they will defend a given team, will this player or another be tasked with certain responsibilities, and how can we best take advantage of that.
I think fans get confused ( sports people too "Wilde" ) that all scripted plays are designed to score points, some maybe, but I think Holmgrens explanation years ago was the norm and still is.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 16:16
by TheSkeptic
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 06:59
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 03:44
APB wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 19:28
I have serious doubts on the veracity of Wilde's claim.
If it were true, there'd be reporters, bloggers, media guys, and Twitter hacks all beating that drum. The first half woes are that obvious that a simple blame-the-coach excuse like that would be screamed from every corner of the interwebs.
When the claim receives more credibility other than a former team reporter on a radio show, I'll pay attention.
Most of the YouTube bloggers have repeated it. Some of them have said it rings true to them. Unless Love or Clifford or the PS QB were to verify it publicly, there will not be proof. I don't think the difference between a scripted concept and a scripted play would be obvious enough to other offensive players. Lets just say that it rings true. IMO not having a well rehearsed first series at least is inexcusable, and it is a logical explanation for the disaster that most of the first quarters have been.
Can you point out where it has been repeated? I have not seen it repeated anywhere and I follow Packers bloggers, beat writers, pretty closely.
Basaraski on YouTube talked about it but it has been a week or so. Others but I forgot who.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 16:51
by wizard 87
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
\
100% false right here, as for proof listen to yesterday's presser with Matt Lefluer, they don't use the term "scripted" but yes they preplan the first few plays and one of the issues he talks about was the Denver always has come out nickel high to start the game, etc..and thats how they game planned those plays...Denver came out base D and it screwed things up. He said they have to check out of that situation so and so forth.
But Wildes claim...FALSE.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 18:29
by RingoCStarrQB
I'm waiting for the Chiefs game before I jump off any cliffs regarding this vote opportunity.
For now I'm wondering if my Packers 2021 Playoffs t-shirt should be preserved as a collector's item, or just wear it into the ground along with my Jordan Love t-shirt.
Thoughts? Issues or Concerns?
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 19:13
by wallyuwl
williewasgreat wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 04:22
Holmgren once explained why he scripted the first 15 plays. It was merely to see how the defense responded to certain formations, lineups and motions. He said it had nothing to do with having a group of plays that should work against a certain team. He said they often went off-script depending on the situation. It was meant to help him determine how the defense would react to very specific circumstances.
He was a great coach.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 19:40
by RingoCStarrQB
williewasgreat wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 04:22
Holmgren once explained why he scripted the first 15 plays. It was merely to see how the defense responded to certain formations, lineups and motions. He said it had nothing to do with having a group of plays that should work against a certain team. He said they often went off-script depending on the situation. It was meant to help him determine how the defense would react to very specific circumstances.
I seem to remember that as well. Mike was no dummy.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 24 Oct 2023 21:33
by Drj820
Who can I blame for not being able to run the ball? Because that’s the answer for who to blame.
Running the ball takes pressure off a young QB.
We said all along the plan was to pound the rock with Jones and Dillon and that would be “the Lafleur offense” or something like that
Additionally, I don’t want to hear any excuses from anyone about Bakh being out. Gute and Lafleur both should not have been surprised at all that he is out. They should have seen his availability purely as a bonus. To rely on golf cart boy would he definition of insanity. So then it’s like..isn’t the OL about what we thought it would be?
Love would look a lot better if we pounded the rock, played defense, and asked him to convert 3rd and shorts.
Oh ya, exactly all we asked him to do week one. He looked just fine then.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 05:08
by CWIMM
Drj820 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 21:33
Who can I blame for not being able to run the ball? Because that’s the answer for who to blame.
Running the ball takes pressure off a young QB.
We said all along the plan was to pound the rock with Jones and Dillon and that would be “the Lafleur offense” or something like that
Love would look a lot better if we pounded the rock, played defense, and asked him to convert 3rd and shorts.
Oh ya, exactly all we asked him to do week one. He looked just fine then.
Opponents knew the Packers would like to run the ball to put Love into more manageable situations entering the season. Unfortunately the passing game hasn't been successful enough for defenses to respect it more often, allowing them to focus on stopping the run first.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 08:50
by Half Empty
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 18:29
I'm waiting for the Chiefs game before I jump off any cliffs regarding this vote opportunity.
For now I'm wondering if my Packers 2021 Playoffs t-shirt should be preserved as a collector's item, or just wear it into the ground along with my Jordan Love t-shirt.
Thoughts? Issues or Concerns?
Might be better not to spend the money in the first place. Haven't spent a nickel since the late 50s.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 11:29
by APB
wizard 87 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 16:51
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
\
100% false right here, as for proof listen to yesterday's presser with Matt Lefluer, they don't use the term "scripted" but yes they preplan the first few plays and one of the issues he talks about was the Denver always has come out nickel high to start the game, etc..and thats how they game planned those plays...Denver came out base D and it screwed things up. He said they have to check out of that situation so and so forth.
But Wildes claim...FALSE.
Wait just a minute...
We've seen countless times how the opponents offensive personnel package dictates what Barry does on defense. It's well documented and common throughout the league. Not commenting on whether Barry does it well or not, just the fact it happens.
Are you telling me the opponents
defensive personnel package is also dictating what MLF does on offense? The Packers are having personnel packages of
both offense and defense dictated by the opponent...?
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 11:31
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑25 Oct 2023 11:29
wizard 87 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 16:51
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
\
100% false right here, as for proof listen to yesterday's presser with Matt Lefluer, they don't use the term "scripted" but yes they preplan the first few plays and one of the issues he talks about was the Denver always has come out nickel high to start the game, etc..and thats how they game planned those plays...Denver came out base D and it screwed things up. He said they have to check out of that situation so and so forth.
But Wildes claim...FALSE.
Wait just a minute...
We've seen countless times how the opponents offensive personnel package dictates what Barry does on defense. It's well documented and common throughout the league. Not commenting on whether Barry does it well or not, just the fact it happens.
Are you telling me the opponents
defensive personnel package is also dictating what MLF does on offense? The Packers are having personnel packages of
both offense and defense dictated by the opponent...?
They’ve told us that’s the way it is for years. Lafleur said he would send two plays in and they would check to highest percentage play based on what the d does. This is why I assumed the team passed so much. I have long advocated for getting good at what you do and executing no matter what the d shows. Make them stop you as you punch them in the mouth.
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 12:22
by Yoop
Half Empty wrote: ↑25 Oct 2023 08:50
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 18:29
I'm waiting for the Chiefs game before I jump off any cliffs regarding this vote opportunity.
For now I'm wondering if my Packers 2021 Playoffs t-shirt should be preserved as a collector's item, or just wear it into the ground along with my Jordan Love t-shirt.
Thoughts? Issues or Concerns?
Might be better not to spend the money in the first place. Haven't spent a nickel since the late 50s.
come on, the team is relying on you to spend your grand Children's inheritance, just drive by Lambeau and fling your wallet at Curly like I do, they have wallet catchers, they will take great care of the moola and mail your wallet back to ya, no problemo
Re: Who is worse?
Posted: 25 Oct 2023 12:25
by Yoop
APB wrote: ↑25 Oct 2023 11:29
wizard 87 wrote: ↑24 Oct 2023 16:51
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023 09:57
I mentioned this in another thread and it didn’t generate any interest it seemed but I’ll say it again. Jason Wilde reported this team doesn’t have any scripted plays.
It’s no wonder this team hasn’t scored a first half offensive touchdown since week 2. That’s a head coach preparation problem.
\
100% false right here, as for proof listen to yesterday's presser with Matt Lefluer, they don't use the term "scripted" but yes they preplan the first few plays and one of the issues he talks about was the Denver always has come out nickel high to start the game, etc..and thats how they game planned those plays...Denver came out base D and it screwed things up. He said they have to check out of that situation so and so forth.
But Wildes claim...FALSE.
Wait just a minute...
We've seen countless times how the opponents offensive personnel package dictates what Barry does on defense. It's well documented and common throughout the league. Not commenting on whether Barry does it well or not, just the fact it happens.
Are you telling me the opponents
defensive personnel package is also dictating what MLF does on offense? The Packers are having personnel packages of
both offense and defense dictated by the opponent...?
well ya, never new it happens any other way, have you forgotten the RULES already
