Rank the Roster 2020: #10

[YoHoChecko]

Also, I'm going to start considering Kirksey very soon. He's a starter, he's better than Martinez when healthy, and his question mark--availability--isn't much worse than what we're talking about with King. Sure, the last two seasons were rough, but he played healthy football for 3 or 4 seasons before that. He's shown it, full-time.

If we believe that his body has broken down now, then the injuries are a huge concern. But if we believe they were anomalies, as MOST injuries are, then he'll be very good.

[Drj820]

i decided to go King for this reason: Every time King goes out, there is a massive drop off in how good our D is because CB3 is so weak. There would probably be a drop off too with Amos out, but I do not think it would be as dramatic.

[go pak go]

i decided to go King for this reason: Every time King goes out, there is a massive drop off in how good our D is because CB3 is so weak. There would probably be a drop off too with Amos out, but I do not think it would be as dramatic.

It'll be interesting to see how the defense adjusts if CB1 or CB2 is injured. On paper we are deep.

I can't imagine a world where Sullivan doesn't get the nickle spot (unless they seriously try Jackson unseating Sullivan). But who plays outside if Alexander or King miss a game? Will Sullivan go outside? Or will it be Jackson/Hollman?

I'm not closing the door on Jackson this year. It sounds like his injury hampered him more in training camp than what it appeared and that could have impacted his play time during the season.

[NCF]

Also, I'm going to start considering Kirksey very soon.

Me too, but I don't think I can before Amos, Linsley, King, & Savage. Not sure there will be a clear tier line, but rather a pretty big cluster here and I think Kirksey is in it.

[YoHoChecko]

Also, I'm going to start considering Kirksey very soon.

Me too, but I don't think I can before Amos, Linsley, King, & Savage. Not sure there will be a clear tier line, but rather a pretty big cluster here and I think Kirksey is in it.

I'd consider him along with Savage and King. Both Savage and King involve projected development (which is fine). Kirksey involves projected health. Kirksey's 3rd and 4th seasons in the league were better season than I've yet seen from Savage and King. And he has experience (rookie and sophomore seasons) with Pettine, so there is less speculation among the coaches as to how he fits than a typical free agent.

[Drj820]

i decided to go King for this reason: Every time King goes out, there is a massive drop off in how good our D is because CB3 is so weak. There would probably be a drop off too with Amos out, but I do not think it would be as dramatic.

It'll be interesting to see how the defense adjusts if CB1 or CB2 is injured. On paper we are deep.

I can't imagine a world where Sullivan doesn't get the nickle spot (unless they seriously try Jackson unseating Sullivan). But who plays outside if Alexander or King miss a game? Will Sullivan go outside? Or will it be Jackson/Hollman?

I'm not closing the door on Jackson this year. It sounds like his injury hampered him more in training camp than what it appeared and that could have impacted his play time during the season.

I feel like in the past that has been something that affects our team more than most. We usually have a pretty strong starting unit on O and D, but as soon as the inevitable injuries come it affects us more than most because our depth has been just horrible last decade or so.

I give Gutey credit for improving this. Its true we did have good injury luck this past year, but i feel like the bottom of the roster has really improved and people can step in a little more than they could in the past. Not sure about outside CB3 though. Seems a little scary.

[YoHoChecko]

I GREATLY prefer that we move Jackson to the outside on a fuller-time basis. Jackson and King both seem far more suited to the outside, unless you're matching King on an athletic TE, which happens occasionally.

Depending on the matchup, having Alexander move inside and someone else come in outside is a perfectly acceptable outcome, as well. Having inside/outside ability is supposed to pay off in situations like that. It'll be interesting to see what Hollman, Jackson, and especially Sullivan have to offer this year. I like a couple UDFAs at the position, too (as I tend to do). Plus, again depending on matchup, we have some safeties who can play inside, also.

[Labrev]

I GREATLY prefer that we move Jackson to the outside on a fuller-time basis.

... outside Green Bay, you mean? I approve.

[Labrev]

It's between King and Linsley to me. Linsley is not flashy but rock-solid and mans an important role on a good OL unit. Not unlike the argument for Amos but C > SS in my eyes.

King has the talent to take on any team's WR1, and the defense is notably better with him in. Getting beat happens to all of them, so I am not gonna ding him too much on that. It's the injuries, though.

I am content to rank our ol' faithful C at the last Top-10 spot and put the guy with Top-5 talent at a key position juuust outside of it.

[lupedafiasco]

There’s no way people are seriously considering pan fried noodles over Amos.

[Pckfn23]

[lupedafiasco]

I don’t think King should be voted here. When he’s on he’s pretty good. No problem with him. When he is bad he is really bad. Like teams focus in on targeting him and at times when teams did that they had huge plays off of King.

Amos on the other hand I can’t say any team tried to take advantage of him or focused in on his limitations because he really doesn’t have any.

King took on a lot of teams #2s regardless in size. Alexander was getting the better matchups. Amos did a lot to cover up for Savages mistakes and when he was out the limitations of the backups. Amos was as consistent as it comes throughout the season. Can’t say the same for King.

[go pak go]

If you look at the game by game stats I posted on the first page comparing Alexander to King, you will see the following:

Games in 2019 with 75 or more yards allowed:

Alexander 3 games: given up total 406 yards (would have been more if Amari Cooper didn't drop an easy TD which instead led to an Alexander deflection INT)

King 3 games: given up total 378 yards. One of these bad games was against DJ Moor of which found a few receptions by finding soft spots in the zone but albiet King still didn't disrupt Moore's routes well enough.

[TheSkeptic]

Someone mentioned that the D drops way off when King goes out. Luckily we did not see Amos go out, he started all 16 games. I fear that if he does get hurt, the D will be worse without him than it would be without King. I voted for Amos. He is not as flashy but he is better.

[YoHoChecko]

If you look at the game by game stats I posted on the first page comparing Alexander to King, you will see the following:

Games in 2019 with 75 or more yards allowed:

Alexander 3 games: given up total 406 yards (would have been more if Amari Cooper didn't drop an easy TD which instead led to an Alexander deflection INT)

King 3 games: given up total 378 yards. One of these bad games was against DJ Moor of which found a few receptions by finding soft spots in the zone but albiet King still didn't disrupt Moore's routes well enough.

Unsure of the goal of this information

So Alexander had better numbers overall; you took each of their 3 worst games and they're... comparably bad, but Alexander's are a little worse? And they were against better WRs? So that means in the other 13 games, Alexander was even better. Cool.

[Drj820]

Amos with a historic late surge

[NCF]

Amos with a historic late surge

But not enough, apparently.

[go pak go]

If you look at the game by game stats I posted on the first page comparing Alexander to King, you will see the following:

Games in 2019 with 75 or more yards allowed:

Alexander 3 games: given up total 406 yards (would have been more if Amari Cooper didn't drop an easy TD which instead led to an Alexander deflection INT)

King 3 games: given up total 378 yards. One of these bad games was against DJ Moor of which found a few receptions by finding soft spots in the zone but albiet King still didn't disrupt Moore's routes well enough.

Unsure of the goal of this information

So Alexander had better numbers overall; you took each of their 3 worst games and they're... comparably bad, but Alexander's are a little worse? And they were against better WRs? So that means in the other 13 games, Alexander was even better. Cool.

That post was in regards to this.

I don’t think King should be voted here. When he’s on he’s pretty good. No problem with him. When he is bad he is really bad. Like teams focus in on targeting him and at times when teams did that they had huge plays off of King.

There are basically 3 arguments to why people hate King here:

1. Availability: Sure I can support this at this point.
2. When he sucks he's really bad: I agree. But King is no worse than anyone else on our defense. King wasn't bad anymore times than Alexander from a quantity or quality standpoint....which is why I brought that up using 75 yards as the threshold for a bad game. Both had 3 bad games. Both gave up similar production. King also allowed fewer TDs and provided more turnovers (King 5 INTs and Alexander 2 INTs)
3. King takes the easy WRs. I also disagree with this to a degree. King and Alexander both take on the 1's and 2's.

For those who hate King but love Alexander I just don't really get it. Their production last year was really close. Both had highs and both had lows. We maybe go 0-2 vs MN if Kevin King doesn't get sorely needed interceptions. And we potentially lose to Dallas if Alexander isn't bailed out with a horrible drop by Amari Cooper on the opening drive that completely changes momentum.

So if Alexander is the bar, King deserves to be right behind him.

[Yoop]

well, since you explained it like that, I'am going Alexander just for spite. King &%$@ the bed whenever he has to deal quick twitchy receivers, and only is stuck covering them when the opposing teams has two receivers with great cod skills, because imho that is Kings weak point, he simply takes forever to recover when re directed, and thats when receivers get that step of separation, it's why we all voted for Alexander 5 picks back, just my opinion.

this one is really close, Amos had 80 tackles, 5 PD's and is possibly a better safety then King is a corner, however the position trumps a close battle between these two, so I've got to go with King.

[YoHoChecko]

That post was in regards to this.

I don’t think King should be voted here. When he’s on he’s pretty good. No problem with him. When he is bad he is really bad. Like teams focus in on targeting him and at times when teams did that they had huge plays off of King.

There are basically 3 arguments to why people hate King here:

1. Availability: Sure I can support this at this point.
2. When he sucks he's really bad: I agree. But King is no worse than anyone else on our defense. King wasn't bad anymore times than Alexander from a quantity or quality standpoint....which is why I brought that up using 75 yards as the threshold for a bad game. Both had 3 bad games. Both gave up similar production. King also allowed fewer TDs and provided more turnovers (King 5 INTs and Alexander 2 INTs)
3. King takes the easy WRs. I also disagree with this to a degree. King and Alexander both take on the 1's and 2's.

For those who hate King but love Alexander I just don't really get it. Their production last year was really close. Both had highs and both had lows. We maybe go 0-2 vs MN if Kevin King doesn't get sorely needed interceptions. And we potentially lose to Dallas if Alexander isn't bailed out with a horrible drop by Amari Cooper on the opening drive that completely changes momentum.

So if Alexander is the bar, King deserves to be right behind him.

Thanks for referencing the post it responded to; makes sense.

I love Alexander, but recognize he still has a step or two to take. I don't at all dislike King; I just don't understand the vast respect for him and thought that health is his only detriment. His play is fine with flashes, but your own analytics showed he's a clear step behind Alexander in results.

It's perfectly acceptable to posit that there are players on our team whose capabilities lie between Alexander's and King's. Nothing you've shown seems to indicate that they are so neck-and-neck as to eliminate breathing room between the two.