Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 13:06
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Class Breakdowns - Safety
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Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 14:11
I like the value of a starting Safety at #58. I also think there will be Safeties that linger around into Round 3, but then I doubt we are picking at the top of our positional board. I think it's important enough that I want my pick of the litter at that spot. If it is between S and ILB, though, I think that LB pool is going to dry up a heck of a lot faster.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 15:21
1. I never said anything about slot 41. That's all in your head buddy. The only mention of 41 was by you saying you had your doubts one would last that long to which I commented it's not the end of the world if a safety doesn't fall to us. I have said in this thread already the only guy i would consider at 25 is DeJean.Yoop wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:49why would you think either is a reach at slot 41? I suppose some draft guru told you that? it's hogwash, value is determined on how that player performs in the fit designed by that DC, and both Hicks and Bishop fit both 2 high and SS.go pak go wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:27It's not the end of the world if a safety doesn't fall to us. There are plenty on the FA scrap heap still available.Yoop wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 11:01
well with so many teams selling there expensive or soon to be expensive 2nd contract safeties I really doubt Hicks or Bishop or some others will be around at slot 58, heck I have my doubts they'll be there at slot 41, and we absolutely need one of em, safety's still our highest need position in this draft class.
Heck Super Blogger Andy Herman just said so in his podcast, and no one argues with the super blogger
Ideally I would like one but we don't have to overreach for one. I'm not in love with this safety class.
also our goal is not to pay another safety FA money, where already paying more for the position then we have in, forever, we also may have to use UFA on a ILB.
my point is we can't stock every position with UFA, and we can't afford to miss out on the best fits in Hafley's new defense.
2. Any safety FA signed after the draft won't command much money. In fact, the dollars paid to a UFA after the draft won't be much different as the dollars paid to a drafted guy 58 or earlier.
3. The language you are already using is setting yourself up for emotional failure. You are already putting into your head: "we need to draft a safety by 41". Why would you put your draft dreams in such a box? Would if an amazing tackle (Fautana) falls to 25 and an amazing Center (JPJ) or ILB or cornerback, edge, IDL falls to 41? These are all needs too and if a player is a steal at 25 and 41 and they aren't a safety by all means you have to take that player. Don't box yourself into thinking we have to get "X" by certain draft slot. It's very dangerous thinking.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 15:38
Kind of hoping we leverage our 3rd rounders a bit. Use one to trade back into Round 4 (to pick up a 5th) and use that 5th to trade up into earlier Round 3.NCF wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 14:11I like the value of a starting Safety at #58. I also think there will be Safeties that linger around into Round 3, but then I doubt we are picking at the top of our positional board. I think it's important enough that I want my pick of the litter at that spot. If it is between S and ILB, though, I think that LB pool is going to dry up a heck of a lot faster.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 18:23
Sorry I did a poor job of explaining that, I think where all swayed a bit with draft consensus, and some position are very scheme defined, safety imo is one of those positions, we saw Savage do very well in cover 2, struggle in single high.go pak go wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 15:211. I never said anything about slot 41. That's all in your head buddy. The only mention of 41 was by you saying you had your doubts one would last that long to which I commented it's not the end of the world if a safety doesn't fall to us. I have said in this thread already the only guy i would consider at 25 is DeJean.Yoop wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:49why would you think either is a reach at slot 41? I suppose some draft guru told you that? it's hogwash, value is determined on how that player performs in the fit designed by that DC, and both Hicks and Bishop fit both 2 high and SS.
also our goal is not to pay another safety FA money, where already paying more for the position then we have in, forever, we also may have to use UFA on a ILB.
my point is we can't stock every position with UFA, and we can't afford to miss out on the best fits in Hafley's new defense.
2. Any safety FA signed after the draft won't command much money. In fact, the dollars paid to a UFA after the draft won't be much different as the dollars paid to a drafted guy 58 or earlier.
3. The language you are already using is setting yourself up for emotional failure. You are already putting into your head: "we need to draft a safety by 41". Why would you put your draft dreams in such a box? Would if an amazing tackle (Fautana) falls to 25 and an amazing Center (JPJ) or ILB or cornerback, edge, IDL falls to 41? These are all needs too and if a player is a steal at 25 and 41 and they aren't a safety by all means you have to take that player. Don't box yourself into thinking we have to get "X" by certain draft slot. It's very dangerous thinking.
I used slot 41 simply because it's the first of the 2nd round picks, and since the prospects that imo fit us best imo wont last, I'd just use slot 41 and take the guy.
If we don't get that safety, I'll restrain myself somehow, thanks for the warning
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 18:37
I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Gute takes a pass on safety altogether this draft, outside of maybe a late flier on a high measurables kid, and just brings in someone like Micah Hyde to hold down the fort a year or two. This isn’t the year to draft a safety. Don’t force the issue.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 21:07
Agreed 100%APB wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 18:37I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Gute takes a pass on safety altogether this draft, outside of maybe a late flier on a high measurables kid, and just brings in someone like Micah Hyde to hold down the fort a year or two. This isn’t the year to draft a safety. Don’t force the issue.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 07:11
I think Hyde will retire or remain with Buffalo, and he's going to want about 4 mil. just as any worth buying will.APB wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 18:37I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Gute takes a pass on safety altogether this draft, outside of maybe a late flier on a high measurables kid, and just brings in someone like Micah Hyde to hold down the fort a year or two. This isn’t the year to draft a safety. Don’t force the issue.
we are already paying 17 mil for McKinny, sure I'd bring in Hyde or another vet, just doubt that Gute would want to pay one, and it's not such a reach to use slot 41 on one of the best in this class or trade back a little rather then wait till slot 58 and loss that player.
we needed improvement at both safety positions, we got one, still one short of that goal
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 09:36
Micah Hyde is just a name example. There are several FA vet safeties still out there.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 07:11I think Hyde will retire or remain with Buffalo, and he's going to want about 4 mil. just as any worth buying will.APB wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 18:37I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Gute takes a pass on safety altogether this draft, outside of maybe a late flier on a high measurables kid, and just brings in someone like Micah Hyde to hold down the fort a year or two. This isn’t the year to draft a safety. Don’t force the issue.
we are already paying 17 mil for McKinny, sure I'd bring in Hyde or another vet, just doubt that Gute would want to pay one, and it's not such a reach to use slot 41 on one of the best in this class or trade back a little rather then wait till slot 58 and loss that player.
we needed improvement at both safety positions, we got one, still one short of that goal
We've gone on about how this safety class just isn't that good. Why risk an upper tier pick on a player who, from a scouting and testing standpoint, just doesn't measure up? That's the very definition of "reaching" for need.
As the off-season drags on, those vet salary demands will decrease. It happens every year. I think the burden of a few mil for a tried and tested vet is a small price to pay over the risk of burning a high pick on another Darnell Savage.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 14:03
your right, I have to admit there is a bumper crop of starter level UFA safety's still available, seems like teams just don't want to pay some of the contracts because they where either to high to start or the player has not played up to it, or they had to cut some cap, either way we can get a starter pretty reasonable.APB wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 09:36Micah Hyde is just a name example. There are several FA vet safeties still out there.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 07:11I think Hyde will retire or remain with Buffalo, and he's going to want about 4 mil. just as any worth buying will.APB wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 18:37I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Gute takes a pass on safety altogether this draft, outside of maybe a late flier on a high measurables kid, and just brings in someone like Micah Hyde to hold down the fort a year or two. This isn’t the year to draft a safety. Don’t force the issue.
we are already paying 17 mil for McKinny, sure I'd bring in Hyde or another vet, just doubt that Gute would want to pay one, and it's not such a reach to use slot 41 on one of the best in this class or trade back a little rather then wait till slot 58 and loss that player.
we needed improvement at both safety positions, we got one, still one short of that goal
We've gone on about how this safety class just isn't that good. Why risk an upper tier pick on a player who, from a scouting and testing standpoint, just doesn't measure up? That's the very definition of "reaching" for need.
As the off-season drags on, those vet salary demands will decrease. It happens every year. I think the burden of a few mil for a tried and tested vet is a small price to pay over the risk of burning a high pick on another Darnell Savage.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 15:14
Worst case senario we bring Rudy Ford back on a super cheap contract. Not a terrible "worst place" position to be in.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 14:03your right, I have to admit there is a bumper crop of starter level UFA safety's still available, seems like teams just don't want to pay some of the contracts because they where either to high to start or the player has not played up to it, or they had to cut some cap, either way we can get a starter pretty reasonable.APB wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 09:36Micah Hyde is just a name example. There are several FA vet safeties still out there.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 07:11
I think Hyde will retire or remain with Buffalo, and he's going to want about 4 mil. just as any worth buying will.
we are already paying 17 mil for McKinny, sure I'd bring in Hyde or another vet, just doubt that Gute would want to pay one, and it's not such a reach to use slot 41 on one of the best in this class or trade back a little rather then wait till slot 58 and loss that player.
we needed improvement at both safety positions, we got one, still one short of that goal
We've gone on about how this safety class just isn't that good. Why risk an upper tier pick on a player who, from a scouting and testing standpoint, just doesn't measure up? That's the very definition of "reaching" for need.
As the off-season drags on, those vet salary demands will decrease. It happens every year. I think the burden of a few mil for a tried and tested vet is a small price to pay over the risk of burning a high pick on another Darnell Savage.
Honestly I just think we are in such the catbird's seat the next month. Signing McKinney was just so huge. It has afforded us so many options. We are in a really, really good spot. Honestly I believe the best position as a team heading into any draft in a long time.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 15:33
Pitt just signed Deshon Elliot from Miami, in this next week I expect most of the best UFA safeties to be signed somewhere, so sense we already have not, chances are our SS will come out of this draft.go pak go wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 15:14Worst case senario we bring Rudy Ford back on a super cheap contract. Not a terrible "worst place" position to be in.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 14:03your right, I have to admit there is a bumper crop of starter level UFA safety's still available, seems like teams just don't want to pay some of the contracts because they where either to high to start or the player has not played up to it, or they had to cut some cap, either way we can get a starter pretty reasonable.APB wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 09:36
Micah Hyde is just a name example. There are several FA vet safeties still out there.
We've gone on about how this safety class just isn't that good. Why risk an upper tier pick on a player who, from a scouting and testing standpoint, just doesn't measure up? That's the very definition of "reaching" for need.
As the off-season drags on, those vet salary demands will decrease. It happens every year. I think the burden of a few mil for a tried and tested vet is a small price to pay over the risk of burning a high pick on another Darnell Savage.
Honestly I just think we are in such the catbird's seat the next month. Signing McKinney was just so huge. It has afforded us so many options. We are in a really, really good spot. Honestly I believe the best position as a team heading into any draft in a long time.
Ford actually is more of a FS imo or like Savage better suited to cover 2 (quarters) or halves, least thats always been my impression of Ford
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 16 Apr 2024 16:58
What about Dadrion Taylor-Demerson? He's old, but fast and is reported to have great football IQ and is versatile.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 17 Apr 2024 06:21
He's also a bit undersized for the next level of play. I kind of think of him as more of a slot CB than a safety, and when viewing him as a safety it's more a FS than SS. Problem is we just signed McKinney who also appears better suited as the FS.
I think DTD has a role in this league, I'm just not convinced it is with the Packers.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 17 Apr 2024 08:03
I think when he is likely to come off the board, you are looking at a depth piece behind McKinney that you can potentially get additional value from at Slot CB or SS. I am not writing off a mid-round S prospect for the Packers because we have a sure-fire starter in front of him. That entire S room is being re-made and we need help on the bench as well as the starting line-up. I also think he has all the makings of a ST stalwart. Would absolutely love him in Round 4 or 5 if he falls down the board a bit.APB wrote: ↑17 Apr 2024 06:21He's also a bit undersized for the next level of play. I kind of think of him as more of a slot CB than a safety, and when viewing him as a safety it's more a FS than SS. Problem is we just signed McKinney who also appears better suited as the FS.
I think DTD has a role in this league, I'm just not convinced it is with the Packers.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 17 Apr 2024 10:54
It does feel like with the signing of McKinney Gute has got total freedom in the draft. Listening to the Ringer NFL draft podcast they were saying the Packers barely seem to have any needs at all.go pak go wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 15:14Worst case senario we bring Rudy Ford back on a super cheap contract. Not a terrible "worst place" position to be in.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 14:03your right, I have to admit there is a bumper crop of starter level UFA safety's still available, seems like teams just don't want to pay some of the contracts because they where either to high to start or the player has not played up to it, or they had to cut some cap, either way we can get a starter pretty reasonable.APB wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024 09:36
Micah Hyde is just a name example. There are several FA vet safeties still out there.
We've gone on about how this safety class just isn't that good. Why risk an upper tier pick on a player who, from a scouting and testing standpoint, just doesn't measure up? That's the very definition of "reaching" for need.
As the off-season drags on, those vet salary demands will decrease. It happens every year. I think the burden of a few mil for a tried and tested vet is a small price to pay over the risk of burning a high pick on another Darnell Savage.
Honestly I just think we are in such the catbird's seat the next month. Signing McKinney was just so huge. It has afforded us so many options. We are in a really, really good spot. Honestly I believe the best position as a team heading into any draft in a long time.
Cooper's versatility could be really valuable if he can play two positions on the back end. Injuries can have such a big impact and if McKinney, who has a dodgy injury history, goes down Hafley's new scheme will be hampered. Having versatile players is vital to getting through a long season if you have designs on a SB.
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 17 Apr 2024 13:27
Re: Class Breakdowns - Safety
Posted: 18 Apr 2024 12:30
Malik Mustapha (on that versatility list above) got a big endorsement on the Athletic Football Show as a potential late Day 2 guy who sounds like he would be a really interesting guy for us--more of a Buddah Baker-type great tackling safety but one who covers well enough for RBs and TEs. Would be intrigued.