Page 2 of 3
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 26 Apr 2024 23:14
by lupedafiasco
This reminds me of taking Tariq Carpenter. Actually probably could have gotten him at the same spot.
I just don’t get this one. Watch him be the best LB we have this year too.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 26 Apr 2024 23:16
by Pckfn23
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑26 Apr 2024 23:14
This reminds me of taking Tariq Carpenter. Actually probably could have gotten him at the same spot.
I just don’t get this one. Watch him be the best LB we have this year too.
We can even be better than that. Josiah Deguara?
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 00:08
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑26 Apr 2024 22:53
Gutey says they hand timed him in the 4.5s and that's how fast he plays on tape.
Scouting reports all mention speed, also. So the 4.68 may not be the most realistic, telling metric on his athleticism, which would be nice.
Maybe they have him drop 20 pounds and he is in the high 4.4s as a safety? Honestly it would make the most sense to me. They could play him as that nickel run defender that is better in pass defense.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 00:19
by Pckfn23
Hold on, a little more clarity:
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 06:52
by BF004
He’s shorter and heavier than Cooper, although doesn’t looking heavier.
Not sure what to make of this pick. Seems like a good football player, bit of a miscast body for what we want. But there are only so many 6’3” 240 lb dudes out there.
Maybe he can tack another 10 lbs on and keep his athleticism.
We do have the oversized and long DL and very heavy and long edges, maybe it is by design to have smaller faster better in coverage athletes at LB.
Guess you’ll often hear instincts are the most important trait for an LB, he seems like a great football player all around, even if he doesn’t look right on paper.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 10:49
by WhiskeyIndigo
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 11:15
by Labrev
I don't hate this guy as a prospect straight-up; I can see some value and there are things that I like in his skill-set, but I am not a fan of him for us.
First, it's another guy who is probably best suited as a WILL, so that gives us three such guys between him, Quay, and now Edge. Who's the SAM? I have to assume McDuffie is the MIKE, which works I guess, although maybe Quay will play there with McDuffie as SAM, but I don't feel like either of them are good fits there. Or maybe they think this Hopper guy is a SAM/MIKE because he is physical, but I mean, he is also very light and by all accounts gets blown up when he does this. So our LB room is 3 WILLs and a MIKE.
More relevantly, picks like this make me feel like GB just does not "get it" when it comes to LBs, and explains why the position is often so bad for us. We have the same approach there as we do with just about all positions: draft for traits/athletic talent. I am a traits/athleticism guy generally, but LB is one of the positions where that has to take a significant backseat to the IQ and instincts, because it's all useless if they cannot play, and tbh it isn't really something that can be coached. You just have it or you don't. Oren Burks, then Quay Walker, on the rare occasions that we go LB high, it is this type of player.
I mean, if we had a track-record of making it "click" for guys like this, I would be all for it. We don't, though. Unless Campanile is a LB whisperer, I am not overly optimistic for our results with this project.
I had us drafting a guy like this in my annual mock, but it was a late Day 3 flier, not a Day 2 pick.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 12:50
by Scott4Pack
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑26 Apr 2024 22:11
The guys on the Bleacher Report live stream:
"I don't love it; he was down my board. Explosive athlete. He gets anywhere he wants to in a hurry. Where he wants to go is not always where he should be going, unfortunately. Poor tackler on tape from what I saw."
"He makes his mistakes very fast. Special teams value."
They gave the pick a C and B- grade.
The guy who said the most about Hopper on B/R is a Packer fan. He isn't very pleased with this pick. But he has been grieving that we haven't picked his favorite Edge guy since after the Cooper pick. He picked on Hopper's mistakes. But he also praised the guy who doing everything fast.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 28 Apr 2024 15:02
by TheSkeptic
Labrev wrote: ↑27 Apr 2024 11:15
I don't hate this guy as a prospect straight-up; I can see some value and there are things that I like in his skill-set, but I am not a fan of him for us.
First, it's another guy who is probably best suited as a WILL, so that gives us three such guys between him, Quay, and now Edge. Who's the SAM? I have to assume McDuffie is the MIKE, which works I guess, although maybe Quay will play there with McDuffie as SAM, but I don't feel like either of them are good fits there. Or maybe they think this Hopper guy is a SAM/MIKE because he is physical, but I mean, he is also very light and by all accounts gets blown up when he does this. So our LB room is 3 WILLs and a MIKE.
More relevantly, picks like this make me feel like GB just does not "get it" when it comes to LBs, and explains why the position is often so bad for us. We have the same approach there as we do with just about all positions: draft for traits/athletic talent. I am a traits/athleticism guy generally, but LB is one of the positions where that has to take a significant backseat to the IQ and instincts, because it's all useless if they cannot play, and tbh it isn't really something that can be coached. You just have it or you don't. Oren Burks, then Quay Walker, on the rare occasions that we go LB high, it is this type of player.
I mean, if we had a track-record of making it "click" for guys like this, I would be all for it. We don't, though. Unless Campanile is a LB whisperer, I am not overly optimistic for our results with this project.
I had us drafting a guy like this in my annual mock, but it was a late Day 3 flier, not a Day 2 pick.
3 LB's on the field at the same time will be rare.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 08:42
by RingoCStarrQB
#59
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 09:25
by Drj820
strange pick imo
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 09:49
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2024 09:25
strange pick imo
with new kicking rules more lbers will be needed, same with the switch to 4-3 base
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 11:28
by YoHoChecko
Drj820 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2024 09:25
strange pick imo
He’s part of another of our recent draft trends. Taking someone who was better the previous year than their final season. His total tables but especially tackles for loss and passes defended were WAY higher in 22 than 23.
So we’ve got K. King and Hopper this year; last year we did that with Wicks for sure and someone else I can’t recall; and of course Love back in the day.
If you consider the 22 stats and tape, the fact that all the scouting reports claim he has high end speed and range that aligns more with the packers’ claims of him being in the 4.5s than the official 4.68 the pick stats making more sense.
Then add in the pass rushing proficiency that were clearly calling in our off ball LBs given that Walker, Cooper, and Hopper all have it on their resume, he’s just the kind of guy we like.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 13:40
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑30 Apr 2024 11:28
Drj820 wrote: ↑30 Apr 2024 09:25
strange pick imo
He’s part of another of our recent draft trends. Taking someone who was better the previous year than their final season. His total tables but especially tackles for loss and passes defended were WAY higher in 22 than 23.
So we’ve got K. King and Hopper this year; last year we did that with Wicks for sure and someone else I can’t recall; and of course Love back in the day.
If you consider the 22 stats and tape, the fact that all the scouting reports claim he has high end speed and range that aligns more with the packers’ claims of him being in the 4.5s than the official 4.68 the pick stats making more sense.
Then add in the pass rushing proficiency that were clearly calling in our off ball LBs given that Walker, Cooper, and Hopper all have it on their resume, he’s just the kind of guy we like.
I'm not sure there was a lack of production on tape, though, compared to some of the other guys. The issue was he missed 3 games due to injury. Otherwise, it sounds like he had a nice season. I also found this note from Dane Brugler very interesting.
- image.png (35.89 KiB) Viewed 794 times
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 13:53
by Madcity_matt
I think Tony Pauline was talking about that. If a prospect had a really great year in the past but not last year they like the idea of trying to figure out what was going so good and coach them back to that level. It makes sense, and definitely recent Packers history says it's a pretty nice rock to look under.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 13:59
by Labrev
Strange indeed, we used a pick on a Pixar character??
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 19:20
by YoHoChecko
NCF wrote: ↑30 Apr 2024 13:40
I'm not sure there was a lack of production on tape, though, compared to some of the other guys. The issue was he missed 3 games due to injury. Otherwise, it sounds like he had a nice season. I also found this note from Dane Brugler very interesting.
I feel like going from 14 to 6 TFL and 5 to 3 PDs is not an issue of missing 3 games.
- image.png (20.23 KiB) Viewed 750 times
But yeah, that's an interesting nugget from The Beast
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 20:16
by APB
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024 15:02
3 LB's on the field at the same time will be rare.
That, too, was my initial thought response to the post you responded to.
I think some here a bit too caught up in thinking in terms of a traditional 4-3 defense. Hafley doesn’t play defense like that. He mixes up looks and positional players quite frequently. He adjusts for opponent. He is creative.
My bet is Hafley sees, at a minimum, a select role for Hopper in his defense. It may not be as full-time starter or even play an abundance of snaps, but it’ll be important when the time comes. And if Hopper performs, his role will expand.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 30 Apr 2024 20:54
by lupedafiasco
The Mike Will and Sam positions are all dead. No one cares about these anymore. You want athletic freaks at LB. Look at the 49ers. They basically play 3 Wills if they’re in base. Look at the Jets. Basically 3 “undersized” freaks.
Re: Ty'Ron Hopper, LB, Missouri, 2024 3rd round pick #91
Posted: 09 May 2024 16:18
by Labrev
Handy Errman did a break-down of Hopper and it sounds like he is a true boom-or-bust pick. He gets himself in position, but the execution (tackling) is his fatal flaw. So either we fix that and he becomes a stud, or we don't and he's basically useless (no ST value without sound tackling).
I guess I don't mind taking a boom-or-bust swing with our bonus Round 3 pick. I wouldn't have taken this particular bet, myself. If tackling is an issue this late in his playing career, I really doubt there is any changing it. And to the extent that tackling can be improved with coaching, I can see it realistically amounting to, like... a ~3-6% improvement. His missed-tackle percentage is at 22(!) and change so he will still be one of the worst tacklers in football if his improvement is by less than a double-digit margin.
I do believe Hafley and Campanile will make a point to coach tackling thoroughly with our whole defense though, so he landed up in the right situation for himself. And if I am wrong, this is potentially a major homerun hit.
