Packers Huddle

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 19:51**

We could go further, too, and point out that Tyreek Hill has 13 TDs, and so does Adams....

Travis Kelce has 8 TDs... and so does Tonyan (huuuuge yardage and ability differential on that one, though)

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 19:56**

I think more than anything Packers fans are traumatized and have PTSD from always getting to the NFC Title Game and losing. So we want to develop a team so good to assure ourselves of not cracking in the postseason or trying to brace ourselves before January so the crush of defeat hurts less and we can say, "I knew we would lose....everybody could see it.....it's so obvious....the Packers failed Rodgers"

This is the best shot the Packers have at a title since 2014. There is no clear team ahead of us like there was in 2019. Of course like in 1997, 2007, 2011, or 2014, it does not mean we will get what we want, but we have as great a shot as anyone else.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 21:02**

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 19:12

bud fox wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 18:18
Saints and Chiefs
It's pretty unreal how similar the Packers and Chiefs are.

We know Rodgers and Mahomes are the 2 front-runners for MVP (and are the two most talented QBs known to man). Let's take a look.
image.png

So that's neck and neck

Let's look at the advanced analytics from Football Outsiders.
image.png

I think people look more critically at their own team than others around the league. The Packers beat the Saints. They perform at nearly identical levels as the Chiefs.

We have one of the best teams in the league. With solid Super Bowl championship probability

Rodgers has MVP for me - still time to go. He is better than Mahomes and does it with less.

I just don't see the difference makers for the packers that you need in the playoffs. Comparing this team to our 2010 SB team only positions that are better would be RB and possibly Oline.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 21:18**

bud fox wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:02
Rodgers has MVP for me - still time to go. He is better than Mahomes and does it with less.

I just don't see the difference makers for the packers that you need in the playoffs. Comparing this team to our 2010 SB team only positions that are better would be RB and possibly Oline.

You don't see Aaron Jones and Davante Adams?

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 21:18**

Edge rushers and TE also better.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020 22:12**

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:18

bud fox wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:02
Rodgers has MVP for me - still time to go. He is better than Mahomes and does it with less.

I just don't see the difference makers for the packers that you need in the playoffs. Comparing this team to our 2010 SB team only positions that are better would be RB and possibly Oline.
You don't see Aaron Jones and Davante Adams?

I said RB - Jones is definitely better. I don't think the receiver group is close to the 2010 group.

Jennings, Driver, Jones, Jordy.

TE's I guess but not a difference maker.
Edge rushers as a group yeah but Matthews was better than both - Raji was playing well - the way Preston Smith is playing isn't great.

2010 Def had playmakers - Off had a great receiving group.

Matthews, Woodson, Collins, Williams, Raji, Pickett.

Great mix of secondary stars with Matthews as an elite rusher and just a wall of run stoppers with Pickett, Raji, Green, Hawk, Bishop.

Well built team with draft/free agents.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 02:16**

I agree that there is no way the Saints are that much of a favorite. The fact that football outsiders had TB ranked by far the highest a mere month or so ago makes me think they're garbage. I already thought PFF was sort of garbage too. What's Taysom Hill going to do, gadget them to a Super Bowl?

Also where is SEA

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 07:18**

I am getting the sense that Robert Tonyan is becoming the most under appreciated player in the league.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:24**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 07:18
I am getting the sense that Robert Tonyan is becoming the most under appreciated player in the league.

Highest QB rating for a TE when targeted in the league.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:30**

I bet like me, Aaron Rodgers is Tonyans hero

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:35**

BF004 wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 08:24

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 07:18
I am getting the sense that Robert Tonyan is becoming the most under appreciated player in the league.
Highest QB rating for a TE when targeted in the league.

That's amazing. Especially when you consider that Rodgers's throws this year have priamrily been targeted to the TE's during that stretch in October/November.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:43**

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:18

bud fox wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:02
Rodgers has MVP for me - still time to go. He is better than Mahomes and does it with less.

I just don't see the difference makers for the packers that you need in the playoffs. Comparing this team to our 2010 SB team only positions that are better would be RB and possibly Oline.
You don't see Aaron Jones and Davante Adams?

I mean we have 5 legit top 3 talents on O.

Rodgers, Adams, Bakhtiari, Linsley and Jones.

Damn near 50% of the offense could be considered the best player at their position in the NFL. Maybe not Jones, but the other 4, yes.

This is what a lot of people have been saying here for years. We absolutely have the star power, we just need to cut down on the liabilities and looks like we have done that. Adding guys like Jenkins to replace a Justin McCray, bringing in Turner, just the internal progressions of said Billy Turner, Lucas Patrick, Tonyan, Lazard and even MVS is better than he was. This is the best Jamal Williams we’ve had, Sternberger putting out some decent reps.

Still could use that quality average level WR on there, Lazard appears to meet that criteria, MVS a shade below, but that is literally the only blind spot on this O right now.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:52**

BF004 wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 08:43

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:18

bud fox wrote: ↑
09 Dec 2020 21:02
Rodgers has MVP for me - still time to go. He is better than Mahomes and does it with less.

I just don't see the difference makers for the packers that you need in the playoffs. Comparing this team to our 2010 SB team only positions that are better would be RB and possibly Oline.
You don't see Aaron Jones and Davante Adams?
I mean we have 5 legit top 3 talents on O.

Rodgers, Adams, Bakhtiari, Linsley and Jones.

Damn near 50% of the offense could be considered the best player at their position in the NFL. Maybe not Jones, but the other 4, yes.

This is what a lot of people have been saying here for years. We absolutely have the star power, we just need to cut down on the liabilities and looks like we have done that. Adding guys like Jenkins to replace a Justin McCray, bringing in Turner, just the internal progressions of said Billy Turner, Lucas Patrick, Tonyan, Lazard and even MVS is better than he was. This is the best Jamal Williams we’ve had, Sternberger putting out some decent reps.

Still could use that quality average level WR on there, Lazard appears to meet that criteria, MVS a shade below, but that is literally the only blind spot on this O right now.

I agree. We replaced the liabilities of McGray with Jenkins. Turner is a better than expected replacement for Bulaga and not the step down we feared. Tonyan has surprised and is far better than Graham and Lazard/MVS have taken GMo's role as the Number 2 and are significantly higher talent.

And that is legit the only change this offense has seen since September 2018. (well....Cobb is no longer on the team)

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:58**

Cobb was like a Graham though too.

Maybe they practice well, on the same page with 12, in the right place at the right time, but both always dinged up, neither could seem to create any reliable separation, neither seemed to actually produce on a consistent level on the field.

I was nervous, yet hopeful, about the TE's this year. Just seems like we have done the let's just go with what we got strategy before and it hasn't worked out so well. S from 2011 to 2019, ILB since 1967, guards from '16-'19, WR '16 to present. Needless to say that whole TE room has probably exceeded expectations over any other group, with OL knocking on the door.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 08:59**

texas wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 02:16
I agree that there is no way the Saints are that much of a favorite. The fact that football outsiders had TB ranked by far the highest a mere month or so ago makes me think they're garbage. I already thought PFF was sort of garbage too. What's Taysom Hill going to do, gadget them to a Super Bowl?

Also where is SEA

You may have heard me mention it before, but they aren't good.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 09:08**

So since we went there, let's compare to 2010, the real 2010, not the rosy one where people think we were the best team in the league.
2010 or 2020, which gets the advantage
Quarterback - 2020 - Rodgers is a better Rodgers this year than in 2010.
Runningback - 2020 - Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams are superior to anything we had in 2010.
Wide Receiver - 2010 - Davante Adams is better than Greg Jennings, but the depth in 2010 was superior.
Tight End - 2020 - Tonyan is better than Lee or Quarless, not to mention Sternberger and Lewis.
Offensive Line - Wash - I can't give a clear winner to this as both lines were/are pretty darn good.

Defensive Line - 2010 - Jenkins, Raji, and Pickett better than Clark, Lowry, and Keke
Outside Linebacker - 2020 - Preston Smith, Zadarius Smith, and Rashan Gary are better than Matthews, Zombo, and Walden/Jones
Inside Linebacker - 2010 - Bishop and Hawk weren't top tier, but they were more experienced and better
Cornerback - 2010 - This one is closer than it looks. Jaire is a better pure cover corner than we had in 2010, but we don't have a Woodson
Safety - 2010 - Again, closer than it looks. We don't have a Nick Collins, but the combination of Savagea and Amos is better than Collins and Peprah

Punter/Kicker - Wash

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 09:25**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 07:18
I am getting the sense that Robert Tonyan is becoming the most under appreciated player in the league.

Yeah the dude is solidly in the second tier of TEs (Kelce is in a tier of his own), among many draft crushes and big names. Also, Tonyan isn't a receiver-mostly TE, he ain't bad at blocking. Incredible job developing him, and silly bang for buck.

In my eyes, Sterny is the same sorta athlete and has shown some flashes, expecting big things from him next season as he hones his technique.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 09:49**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
10 Dec 2020 09:08
So since we went there, let's compare to 2010, the real 2010, not the rosy one where people think we were the best team in the league.
2010 or 2020, which gets the advantage
Quarterback - 2020 - Rodgers is a better Rodgers this year than in 2010.
Runningback - 2020 - Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams are superior to anything we had in 2010.
Wide Receiver - 2010 - Davante Adams is better than Greg Jennings, but the depth in 2010 was superior.
Tight End - 2020 - Tonyan is better than Lee or Quarless, not to mention Sternberger and Lewis.
Offensive Line - Wash - I can't give a clear winner to this as both lines were/are pretty darn good.

Defensive Line - 2010 - Jenkins, Raji, and Pickett better than Clark, Lowry, and Keke
Outside Linebacker - 2020 - Preston Smith, Zadarius Smith, and Rashan Gary and Better than Matthews, Zombo, and Walden/Jones
Inside Linebacker - 2010 - Bishop and Hawk weren't top tier, but their were more experienced and better
Cornerback - 2010 - This one is closer than it looks. Jaire is a better pure cover corner than we had in 2010, but we don't have a Woodson
Safety - 2010 - Again, closer than it looks. We don't have a Nick Collins, but the combination of Savagea and Amos is better than Collins and Peprah

Punter/Kicker - Wash

That's a cool exercise and it does highlight that these teams are somewhat close - 2010 just got hot at the right time.

The only thing I'd fight you on is the CB group - I don't think it's that close. Woodson was a huge difference maker and we had a prime Tramon + Shields as our nickle. I'd say that:

Woodson>>>Anyone
Jaire>Tramon/Shields
Tramon/Shields>>>Anyone else we have right now

which makes me lean pretty heavily to 2010. I agree that Jaire is probably a better cover corner, but Tramon and Shields generated TO's much better. I mean Tramon/Shields basically sealed all three NFC playoff games that year.

Also, I had forgotten about SB hero Jarrett Bush until this moment. Boy, I remember how people hated that guy.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 09:59**

I think the Postseason aura elevated the stature of Shields and Tramon higher than they were at this time in 2010.

This Sunday 10 years ago the Packers lost to Detroit getting their 5th loss of the season and needed to go to NE without Rodgers. Let's be honest. Most of us, including me, thought our season was over.

The only thing that saved it was the Giants punted to Desean Jackson with seconds to go in Regulation which everyone said, PUNT IT OUT OF BOUNDS.

The Giants didn't. Jackson returned it for 6 and that led an opportunity of the Packers sneaking in at 10-6 with the head to head tie breaker over the NYG.

You could tell the Packers could be good in 2010. They were destroyed by injuries. But the Packers 2010 January run was simply insane. They could do no wrong.

Posted: **10 Dec 2020 10:10**

Also, look at that PD for 2010. A 6 loss team with +148 point differential!

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