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Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 14:03
by texas
I mean, we could do a lot worse at the #2 CB position. For his faults, he is usually decent in coverage. And he was playing injured yesterday.
I would have been on the fence about bringing him back before yesterday.
But we can't have a MM lack of accountability type of situation creep in here under MLF. King's gotta go.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 14:10
by texas
salmar80 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 07:42
German_Panzer wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 07:35
Pettine has to go, but only if we get a real deal like Wade P. That's the main point, all the others are footnotes compared.
Yes. A 73-year old or nothing!
Look at Phillips' last 3 jobs and tell me he isn't the clear choice. He repeatedly takes defenses with a lot of talent who for whatever reason are not getting the job done, and he makes them elite, top 3. Did it in Houston. Did it in Denver. Did it in LA. And I've been thinking Pettine hasn't done so bad because we have some personnel holes, but when you think about it:
Top 1 CB
Top 3 DT
Top 5 EDGE
2 Top 5 S
Rashan Gary is a dark horse DPOY based on his pressure rate when we finally started playing him this season.
This defense is sort of loaded. Why the hell are we below average at best? This has been Wade Phillips' speciality.
I saw some other people online clamoring for him to come here, and I thought maybe I am wrong, since I am never supposed to have the majority view. So I am glad to see people here disagree. Now I
know it's the right move.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 14:20
by Ghost_Lombardi
All of them. Bye.
Bring in Phillips.
Have him bring a true slot WR in his luggage.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 14:22
by salmar80
texas wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 14:10
salmar80 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 07:42
German_Panzer wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 07:35
Pettine has to go, but only if we get a real deal like Wade P. That's the main point, all the others are footnotes compared.
Yes. A 73-year old or nothing!
Look at Phillips' last 3 jobs and tell me he isn't the clear choice. He repeatedly takes defenses with a lot of talent who for whatever reason are not getting the job done, and he makes them elite, top 3. Did it in Houston. Did it in Denver. Did it in LA. And I've been thinking Pettine hasn't done so bad because we have some personnel holes, but when you think about it:
Top 1 CB
Top 3 DT
Top 5 EDGE
2 Top 5 S
Rashan Gary is a dark horse DPOY based on his pressure rate when we finally started playing him this season.
This defense is sort of loaded. Why the hell are we below average at best? This has been Wade Phillips' speciality.
I saw some other people online clamoring for him to come here, and I thought maybe I am wrong, since I am never supposed to have the majority view. So I am glad to see people here disagree. Now I
know it's the right move.
I have nothing against Phillips, impressive resume. I was making fun of the tendency of fans to lock onto just one or very few choices, usually because they only know like <1% of options. Josh McDaniels was the ONLY choice for our HC. Schneider was the ONLY choice for our GM... I exaggerate, but you know what I mean.
Even guys in the media usually consider only a tiny list of people, and coaches with past accolades are easiest to bring up. What they tend to miss are the young up-and-comers, since spotting those would take deeper and more personal knowledge.
I wouldn't be flabbergasted if we hired Phillips as a stopgap DC, but think it's more likely LaFleur would pick a young gun he or his close associates has some ties to.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 14:24
by Pckfn23
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... hilWa0.htm
Phillips is more of the same. Need a "young" gun. Someone under 60. Someone who who instills a killer mentality.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 15:53
by texas
All I see there at that link is that he has come into his last 3 spots and immediately turned them into a top defense, which is what I remember. Looks like his stuff goes stale after a couple years but that's fine.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 15:54
by texas
I mean, I wouldn't be the most disappointed if we didn't even fire Pettine, or if we hired someone else. It seems as though this offseason will be lost again due to covid which means any big schematic changes will be tougher to pull off. Not sure if this is true though but I read that Wade Phillips' defenses are easier for players to understand.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 15:58
by Pckfn23
Rams defense was average at best all 3 years he was there. Let's not recycle an old coach, literally old.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 17:12
by texas
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 15:58
Rams defense was average at best all 3 years he was there. Let's not recycle an old coach, literally old.
They seemed pretty dominant to me. I know they did load up on FAs but like I said, our team has talent comparable to his previous stops.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 18:00
by flapackfan
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 18:35
by texas
fr tho, we as fans probably don't have a clue who actually "gets it" and who has just risen through the ranks by memorizing whatever he's already been taught. You see the guys with fundamental understandings of the game tend to gravitate towards offense but I'm sure many coach defense too. All we have to go off of is their results from games and what they say at press conferences.
Just don't give me someone who does things because "that's just how they're done"
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 25 Jan 2021 20:42
by Pckfn23
Eh, I am not sure he is ready.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 00:47
by lupedafiasco
He doesnt sound like he wants to leave Wisconsin. Could be wrong though it could just be coach speak but he sounds happy.
I want a young guy who brings a lot of energy on the sidelines. We dont have a build up leader on defense. Z is a leader but hes a nice guy. Amos is quiet. Preston is quiet. Clark is damn near silent. Gary is quiet. Savage seems quiet. Jaire is the closest thing to it. You usually get that type of player from your LB or coach. We just dont have it.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 04:06
by texas
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑26 Jan 2021 00:47
He doesnt sound like he wants to leave Wisconsin. Could be wrong though it could just be coach speak but he sounds happy.
I want a young guy who brings a lot of energy on the sidelines. We dont have a build up leader on defense. Z is a leader but hes a nice guy. Amos is quiet. Preston is quiet. Clark is damn near silent. Gary is quiet. Savage seems quiet. Jaire is the closest thing to it. You usually get that type of player from your LB or coach. We just dont have it.
I've been saying for years we need some straight up thugs. Problem with Green Bay is we always get nice guys, family friendly players. Jaire is loud but he's also quirky. Guys who go to prison aren't quirky. Look at Tyreek Hill's face and tell me that dude wouldn't be in jail if he weren't in the NFL (and he might still be in jail someday despite being in the NFL). We don't need a ton of them, just a few.
I always wanted to bring in Vontaze Burfict because he would illegally beat the &%$@ out guys away from the play and frankly that's the kind of energy we need. Now, I think he's probably washed up at this point, but we want a couple bad guys with high time preference who don't care about consequences and instead play based on pure killer instinct.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 08:35
by packman114
I would definitely look for a Todd Bowles disciple to run our defense. Who's coaching tree is he from?
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 09:08
by Pugger
Cdragon wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 06:07
Mennega is a no brainer. STs continued their abysmability far beyond anything thought possible.
Preston Smith you save 12.5 million dollars againt a 4 mill cap hit for cutting him. That pays for Linsley or a good chunk of Jones. Way to much money for the production we are getting.
Pettine, you just can't call single high at the end of the half. You've got to have at least 3 deep. That's enough to can you. Get somebody better.
Let King walk unless he finds no market with the tight cap and resign him for nothing.
You keep Sullivan till you have something better since he's minimum salary.
I thought Preston's cap hit was $8M?
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 09:10
by BF004
Pugger wrote: ↑26 Jan 2021 09:08
Cdragon wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 06:07
Mennega is a no brainer. STs continued their abysmability far beyond anything thought possible.
Preston Smith you save 12.5 million dollars againt a 4 mill cap hit for cutting him. That pays for Linsley or a good chunk of Jones. Way to much money for the production we are getting.
Pettine, you just can't call single high at the end of the half. You've got to have at least 3 deep. That's enough to can you. Get somebody better.
Let King walk unless he finds no market with the tight cap and resign him for nothing.
You keep Sullivan till you have something better since he's minimum salary.
I thought Preston's cap hit was $8M?
That would be his 2021 cap savings to release him.
He counts 16 million towards this cap, 12 million in salary and roster bonus (the part we would save) and 4 million in prorated signing bonus (the part we would save). But then also his 4 million 2022 prorated signing bonus would count against 2021 upon his release, only netting is 8 million in 2021 cap relief. Although also saves us 4 million against the 2022 cap.
All in all if we released him, it would have been a 2 year 27 million contract. I would say that was worth it. Helped changed the whole attitude of the D. We are going to be entering next year expecting to be a top D now with or without him. He helped build that mind set.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 09:12
by Pugger
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 20:42
Eh, I am not sure he is ready.
The folks in Madison might be grooming him to take over the HC job in the near future.
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 09:13
by Pugger
BF004 wrote: ↑26 Jan 2021 09:10
Pugger wrote: ↑26 Jan 2021 09:08
Cdragon wrote: ↑25 Jan 2021 06:07
Mennega is a no brainer. STs continued their abysmability far beyond anything thought possible.
Preston Smith you save 12.5 million dollars againt a 4 mill cap hit for cutting him. That pays for Linsley or a good chunk of Jones. Way to much money for the production we are getting.
Pettine, you just can't call single high at the end of the half. You've got to have at least 3 deep. That's enough to can you. Get somebody better.
Let King walk unless he finds no market with the tight cap and resign him for nothing.
You keep Sullivan till you have something better since he's minimum salary.
I thought Preston's cap hit was $8M?
That would be his 2021 cap savings to release him.
He counts 16 million towards this cap, 12 million in salary and roster bonus (the part we would save) and 4 million in prorated signing bonus (the part we would save). But then also his 4 million 2022 prorated signing bonus would count against 2021 upon his release, only netting is 8 million in 2021 cap relief. Although also saves us 4 million against the 2022 cap.
All in all if we released him, it would have been a 2 year 27 million contract. I would say that was worth it. Helped changed the whole attitude of the D. We are going to be entering next year expecting to be a top D now with or without him. He helped build that mind set.
OIC
Re: Who to Fire/Release
Posted: 26 Jan 2021 09:23
by BF004
I wonder if there would be a competent way to make Preston Smith a post-June 1st cut. Giving up $12 million in cap relief, $4 million dead cap in 2021 and 2022, rather than all $8 in 2021.
Pros
- Obvious additional $4 million in 2021 cap relief, $12 million in cap savings would pretty much make this a no brainer.
Cons
- Not really fair to Preston and not let him partake in the opening week of FA, don't want to get a bad reputation for dogging players like that.
- We would have to carry his full cap to June 1st, past free agency and make it, at least initially, to extend guys like Jones or Linsley
Wonder if there is some mechanism you can where like you give Linsley or Jones their contract, but with a 2022 signing bonus, that is fully guaranteed upon signing. So we could basically bring them back in 2021 for close to vet minimum, or whatever we want, then give them their big payday in 2022. Players will have to wait a full year to see that check, but they would see it regardless of injury or being released or whatever. Total kicking the can down the road, but find way to bring back Linsley and Jones.