Joe Barry reportedly to be hired as DC

[BF004]

I’ve got nothing to judge till I see some product on the field.

I want him to keep Mike Smith, but i also wanted to keep Campen, and we actually got better there so. So you do you Matt and Joe.

Be excited to watch some pressers.

[Pugger]

Well, we can't complain about that. A lot of us were not happy with Pettine's passive attack at times.

[go pak go]

So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.

What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?

[Pckfn23]

So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.

What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?

Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.

[lulu]

I'm coming around on this like I came around with my mom's tuna casserole as a kid. I was fed. Not excited, not pissed. Meh.

[kampmanfan4life]

So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.

What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?

Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.

Here is a bit on Vic Fangio defenses...might help to see what the plan is for us.

https://beargoggleson.com/2015/01/21/vi ... e-scheme/

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/5/2 ... -coverages

[wallyuwl]

Bob Sanders was aggressive, too. You need the players who can win individual battles to do that, especially in the secondary.

[Yoop]

So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.

What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?

nothing can hurt Jaire, he can do either of man or zone, imho King and also Jackson are more protected in a zone scheme, as this article says cover 2 describes the short and deep coverage, 2 deep safety's and 5 zones laterally underneath, it shrinks those zones with hopes of less empty spaces, so sure I'd think it would help not only them but other less able CB's, plus with that added over head assurance of safety backup your corners are able to gamble a bit more.

I prefer man coverage, it's simpler, but unless you have a couple more CB's with Alexanders skills, really good man skill ability at ILB then zone will be easier for them to succeed, but I'd think Barry will use other variations of Fangio, Phillips, and others he's learned from along the way.

Cover 2 is a two-deep, five-under zone defense run out of both base and sub-package personnel (dime, nickel) at the pro level. By rushing four, and dropping seven into coverage (with eyes on the quarterback), the defense can take away vertical concepts while forcing the ball underneath to the flat or check-down option.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+do ... e&ie=UTF-8

[go pak go]

So word is we will likely see more of the Cover 2 Vic Fangio style with Barry.

What does that mean in terms of types of CBs we would be looking at? Does Kevin King fit that mold better? Does Josh Jackson fit that mold better? Will it hurt Jaire or help him because he can't just erase a side of the field?

Cover 2 is generally a safety call. You can do what you want with the corners. You can run cover 2 over man or cover 2 over zone. Those questions don't really fit with what cover 2 is.

Here is a bit on Vic Fangio defenses...might help to see what the plan is for us.

https://beargoggleson.com/2015/01/21/vi ... e-scheme/

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/5/2 ... -coverages

Thank you for brining in these articles.

A few things that stood out to me:

Defensive Line:

In Fangio’s scheme, the NT (#90 above) lines up off the center’s shoulder on the strong-side (same side as TE) and is only responsible for the gap in front of him. This requires a different type of NT as opposed to the classic space-eater used in standard 3-4 schemes. The NT in Fangio’s scheme needs to have the quickness to beat interior lineman off the snap and the strength to hold his ground against double-teams in the run game.

In Fangio’s scheme one of the DEs moves inside to the 3-tech DT position. The 3-tech DT (#91) lines up between the guard and tackle on the weak side and is ideally the D-line’s best pass rusher. The 3-tech DT’s responsibility is to generate interior pressure on pass plays and get in the backfield to disrupt the running game. The 3rd D-lineman in Fangio’s scheme (#94) is close to a standard 3-4 DE but usually shades the strong-side tackle’s outside shoulder. The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers.

Outside Linebackers:

The outside linebackers in Fangio’s scheme have two distinct roles. The OLBs basically rotate between stand-up defensive ends and run-stoppers with occasional zone coverage responsibilities depending on which side the TE lines up on. The strong-side OLB (whatever side the TE lines up on) will jam the TE and then drop back into a short zone on pass plays to defend against slants, screens, etc, or maintain the edge on a run play. The weak-side OLB (opposite side of TE) will move up to the line of scrimmage to be a stand-up DE (4th D-lineman) and his role is to rush the QB. The Niners used Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks at OLB and they are both excellent pass rushers who are athletic enough to either pressure the QB as a stand-up DE or drop back in short zone coverage if they are on the strong-side. Fangio doesn’t ask his OLBs to cover anyone man-to-man which opens up the position to players who would be considered tweeners in standard 4-3 or 3-4 schemes.

Inside Linebackers:

The inside linebackers do have more coverage responsibility than in a standard 3-4 and are also asked to blitz occasionally. Most 3-4 schemes look for at least one big run-stuffer inside, but Fangio’s scheme required elite athleticism from both his ILBs since they will often cover TEs or RBs. They also have inside gap responsibility vs the run and will occasionally switch to OLB in certain alignments, so they need to be elite athletes who can cover, stop the run, and get to the QB. In San Fran ILBs Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman were both high-level athletes and All-Pro players.

CBs:

Fangio’s 49er teams ran cover 2 fairly often. He also ran plenty of press coverage and bump-and-run, so at least there will be some variety in the coverage schemes this year. Due to his preference for press coverage, the Bears will be looking for big physical corners who can play zone, contribute against the run, and obviously press cover. Four of the seven CBs on the Niners roster last year were 6 foot tall or over and none were shorter than 5’10. Fangio seems to prefer big corners who can slow up receivers at the line but still have the ability to drop back into zone coverage.

Safeties:

Fangio likes his safeties to be interchangeable. That will be hard with the Bears current roster since none of the current safeties are starting-caliber at either position. On early downs Fangio likes to have the strong safety in the box, but he disguises it well and occasionally moves the free safety into the box instead.

Overall:

Another key difference between the normal 4-3 under scheme and Vic Fangio’s version is versatility. He requires most of his defenders to play multiple positions on all three levels of the defense. Fangio would often switch Smith and Ray McDonald between the 3-tech and 5-tech positions based on match-ups. The NT is locked in place but the other two D-lineman need to be able to switch spots, his OLBs need to be able to play stand-up DE, his ILBs need to be able to play OLB at times, and his two starting safeties need to be interchangeable. Fangio’s defense thrives on the ability to change their scheme at any time and disguise what they are doing pre-snap. Without versatile players his disguised alignments will be more transparent. Fangio’s consistently changing schemes are going to be a welcome addition to Bears fans who are used to watching the same defensive alignment over and over again (good riddance Mel!).

Fangio is great at confusing offenses with disguised coverages and adjusting his schemes on a play-to-play basis. It will take some creative moves by new GM Ryan Pace to give Fangio players with the versatility and talent that he needs to implement his scheme.

[Yoop]

just attempting to get more info on Joe Barry, if anything it's hard to pigeon hole any one type scheme to Barry, he's tutored and learned from some of the very best, and in a variety of defensive schemes, in that way I think his experience attracted MLF.


Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms

“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”

If you didn’t know any better, you might think he was talking about the last two seasons with Pettine. Critics of his defenses in Washington suggested he wasn’t aggressive enough, wouldn’t take chances or play outside his scheme. Sounding familiar?

Still, McVay thought enough of him to bring him to Los Angeles and tag him with the ‘assistant head coach’ title. There, he coached under notoriously aggressive Wade Phillips, the man Barry beat out to be Washington DC the first time. That’s when he crossed paths with LaFleur, coached up players like Corey Littleton to go from UDFA to Pro Bowl caliber and stayed on when McVay made the switch to Staley before last offsason.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/pack ... m-leonahrd

if people havn't read this acme article ya should, it describes what we can expect from Barry, heres some more good stuff.

According to Tom Silverstein, the connection to Staley drove LaFleur’s interest both in Barry and Rams safeties coach Ejiro Evero. McVay loves the two-high coverage-disguise defense so much, he hired Raheem Morris—a Tampa-2 disciple like Barry— but insisted on keeping the philosophy. In fact, Barry coached under Morris in Tampa after the Detroit situation soured (0-16 seasons with do that).

The Francois quote jibes with how the Rams looked last season, though Staley made the calls not Barry. L.A. played light boxes over 80% of the time last year, the most in the league with Fangio’s Broncos right behind. Still this was a top-5 run defense because of how they attack OL gaps and used their team speed. Imagine how jealous Pettine must have been about a team with no stud linebacker, playing a bunch of sub-package and still stopping the run effectively.

[go pak go]

just attempting to get more info on Joe Barry, if anything it's hard to pigeon hole any one type scheme to Barry, he's tutored and learned from some of the very best, and in a variety of defensive schemes, in that way I think his experience attracted MLF.


Defensive tackle Ricky-Jean Francois described Barry’s approach in simple terms

“He’s not going to be trying to be the more aggressive dude. Only aggressive when he needs to. But at the same time, his one biggest thing is he wants his front four to get pressure. That was the biggest thing he emphasized. If he’s got DBs in the backend covering, he wants to be able to send that front four and drop seven. That’s every defensive coordinator’s dream to do. I want that dream to come true for him.”

If you didn’t know any better, you might think he was talking about the last two seasons with Pettine. Critics of his defenses in Washington suggested he wasn’t aggressive enough, wouldn’t take chances or play outside his scheme. Sounding familiar?

Still, McVay thought enough of him to bring him to Los Angeles and tag him with the ‘assistant head coach’ title. There, he coached under notoriously aggressive Wade Phillips, the man Barry beat out to be Washington DC the first time. That’s when he crossed paths with LaFleur, coached up players like Corey Littleton to go from UDFA to Pro Bowl caliber and stayed on when McVay made the switch to Staley before last offsason.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/pack ... m-leonahrd

if people havn't read this acme article ya should, it describes what we can expect from Barry, heres some more good stuff.

According to Tom Silverstein, the connection to Staley drove LaFleur’s interest both in Barry and Rams safeties coach Ejiro Evero. McVay loves the two-high coverage-disguise defense so much, he hired Raheem Morris—a Tampa-2 disciple like Barry— but insisted on keeping the philosophy. In fact, Barry coached under Morris in Tampa after the Detroit situation soured (0-16 seasons with do that).

The Francois quote jibes with how the Rams looked last season, though Staley made the calls not Barry. L.A. played light boxes over 80% of the time last year, the most in the league with Fangio’s Broncos right behind. Still this was a top-5 run defense because of how they attack OL gaps and used their team speed. Imagine how jealous Pettine must have been about a team with no stud linebacker, playing a bunch of sub-package and still stopping the run effectively.

[Pckfn23]

Still this was a top-5 run defense because of how they attack OL gaps and used their team speed.

Love this! Been wanting a penetrating run defense for ages!

[NCF]

How does our current personnel slide into these positions? What are we lacking?

[go pak go]

How does our current personnel slide into these positions? What are we lacking?

I'm not smart enough to know this stuff. There are lot here who are way smarter than me.

But I would think defensive line is something we are very weak at right now and will really want to upgrade in the draft and possibly FA.

I think Clark and Keke can fit nicely in our Dline. I honestly think Adams could too. I think Lowry and Lancaster are poor players as our "5 tech" to be able to take on double teams. I think that is an area I would look at improving. And I'm not necessarily saying get a guy over 325 pounds. But we could use more ammo on the defensive line.

The 5-tech DE’s role requires the ability to hold his ground against the run despite frequent double teams. If the DE can force a double team it frees up the lanes on either side of him for the linebackers.

[NCF]

I actually think if they play this kind of defense, Dean Lowry fits really well. Double-teams when you are talking about an OT and a TE is not the same as C/G or G/T. When Pettine did play Dean as a true 5T in base, he always fared much, much better than he did when they tried playing him as a 3T in subs. Still, I agree, they can get better there, for sure.

[Pckfn23]

I would say the opposite for Lowry. He isn't a great 2 gapper, but he can penetrate. I would think this defense fits him better.

[Pckfn23]

I actually think if they play this kind of defense, Dean Lowry fits really well. Double-teams when you are talking about an OT and a TE is not the same as C/G or G/T. When Pettine did play Dean as a true 5T in base, he always fared much, much better than he did when they tried playing him as a 3T in subs. Still, I agree, they can get better there, for sure.

Also a very good point. Lowry is much better suited as a 5 tech. instead of a 3.

[BF004]

Matt definitely seems to emphasize putting players in a position to be succesful.

Given our base D will only be like 20-40% of the time, I think focusing too much on trying to get players to fit the textbook definition of a 4-3 under is overkill.

That said, I actually like how our DL fits in that front when called upon. Love the idea of Kenny getting upfield more.

Really think we are going to have to make a bigger investment at ILB, perhaps even if it is getting 3 safeties on the field more with 1 of Scott, Amos or Savage up in the box.

[go pak go]

Thanks guys.

Like I said. There are lot of people here that are way smarter than me at this stuff so I appreciate the conversation.

I agree that Lowry's length is probably what you want, but I just saw him on the ground a lot last year. I think Keke, Adams and Clark would be great single gap penetrating Dlinemen.

[Yoop]

I wanted to see how Barry's education compares to Todd Bowles, and sure enough both use a lot of cover 2, 4 up and 7 back with a light box, lot of 3 safety scheming, as that other article said, it seems to be the preferred plan of a lot of DC's now days. less empty spaces

Bowles defense is is very intimidating, specially when the refs allow some PI and holding, but just because they do isn't a slam on the quality and consistency we see from his units, they look very well coaches.

If there was a fault with Pettine , that seemed to be it, I defended him saying some of his position groups where inexperienced, which they where, but we also saw almost complete complacency to make adjustments during games we where getting a shellacking, or whatever adjustments he did make had almost zero affect, the last two NFCCGames are a good example of that.

Heres a little bit concerning Bowles and how, if at all it compares to Barry, I'd relish your thoughts, I'am attempting to increase my man love for Brady Player matchups don't seem to far off

Besides the type of players a coach wants, one of the first things a coach has to choose is whether they want to be a middle of the field open (MOFO) defense or a middle of the field closed (MOFC). A Cover 2 look with deep two safeties splitting the field is an example of a MOFO look, while Cover 3 or Cover 1 would be a MOFC look. This can be as a base scheme, like the Seattle Seahawks’ Legion of Boom who played exclusively Cover 3 with Earl Thomas as the single-high safety, or even switching up play-to-play or per opponent. This is important because one of the first keys a quarterback reads at the line of scrimmage pre-snap is how many safeties there are and where they’re lined up. It tells a quarterback where they can expect the holes in the coverage to be.

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/7/31/18 ... es-defense