We have no need to franchise him. I don't see any other team willing to pay him a top TE contract right now, while giving up a 2nd round pick. Even if it isn't top TE deal, let's say $10M/year (probably what Hunter Henry gets). I just don't see it happening. 2nd round tender and he's safely a Packer. Plus I think he'll be restricted for at least another year or 2. I forget the exact rules on that.
thanks for the explanation, I just don't want to lose him.
I dont “want” to lose him either but ya gotta look at what else you would have to lose in a cap crunch year if you go crazy to keep him, especially when the packers have drafted what should be replacements for him in the past 2 years with 3rd round picks
as I said, what have you seem from Sternberger? and Dequora, well, same thing, and he is more of a HB anyway.
Tonya has the ability to get open, and has great hands, heck 2nd rounder tender is 4 plus mil. not much considering his production.
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
2nd Round tender compensation: $3.259 million
1st Round tender compensation: $4.641 million
I am not sure any team would offer up a 1st round pick for Tonyan or Lazard, but I could see teams giving up a 2nd round pick, so that worries me a bit.
Lazard is ERFA, so nothing to worry about with him. I just don't see anyone giving us their 2nd-round pick to sign Tonyan. He is a nice player and I sure want him back, but if we are going to get a 2nd for him, I will wish him well and say see you later.
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
Plus I think he'll be restricted for at least another year or 2. I forget the exact rules on that.
No, actually he will be unrestricted after next year. Just need to accrue 4 seasons. After Years 1 & 2 you are considered ERFA and no one can touch you if you are tendered. Year 3 is the only year of RFA with the different tender values and compensation to the team that loses the player, if applicable.
Might actually be good to get him to sign the tender and then work out an extension that lowers his cap hit this season.
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
thanks for the explanation, I just don't want to lose him.
I dont “want” to lose him either but ya gotta look at what else you would have to lose in a cap crunch year if you go crazy to keep him, especially when the packers have drafted what should be replacements for him in the past 2 years with 3rd round picks
as I said, what have you seem from Sternberger? and Dequora, well, same thing, and he is more of a HB anyway.
Tonya has the ability to get open, and has great hands, heck 2nd rounder tender is 4 plus mil. not much considering his production.
Are we getting into another price don't matter war again?
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 13:31
by Half Empty
Any chance the love for Tonyan is primarily due to the really low bar that Packer TEs have previously set; i.e., he's a good player, but only standing out as a reliable TE after a long line of bad ones?
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
2nd Round tender compensation: $3.259 million
1st Round tender compensation: $4.641 million
I am not sure any team would offer up a 1st round pick for Tonyan or Lazard, but I could see teams giving up a 2nd round pick, so that worries me a bit.
Lazard is ERFA, so nothing to worry about with him. I just don't see anyone giving us their 2nd-round pick to sign Tonyan. He is a nice player and I sure want him back, but if we are going to get a 2nd for him, I will wish him well and say see you later.
Gotchya. Yep, all we have to do is offer him a contract and he is ours for the year. No tender required.
I definitely can see a team offering a 2nd for Tonya. Feed him the ball and he's top 5. There is a scarcity of good TEs as it is.
11 TDs led all TEs, tied. His catch % was tops in the league among qualifying TEs. His yards per target was top 5. He is not a ball busting inline blocker, but I don't buy his supposed lack of blocking skills:
And yes, just a fun video, not indicative of anything really. He is a willing and able blocker, though.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 15:16
by YoHoChecko
I'm fine with the 2nd round tender for Tonyan. RFAs almost never move these days; teams don't want to work out a contract only to have it matched, ever since the league did away with those weird poison pill clauses in the contracts like "$10 bonus if you play more than 6 games outside the state of Washington."
But the next run of players to sign is gonna be rough. Probably looking at a top 3 contract at WR and CB for Adams and Jaire plus a top 5 contract for Tonyan after this year. We already have a top 3 contract at QB and the top LT contract.
I think we can get through this year with the down cap and the TV deals for 22 and 23 will put us back in decent shape, but good grief, it's a top heavy roster.
As for Boyle, I say low tender; have to bring him to camp. I think he can play in the NFL and we need a preseason to show him off that we didn't get this year. I doubt we can get much for him, but a Day 3 pick is more than nothing. Plus Rodgers loves having him around and we don't want to start an already bitter offseason with the kind of move that adds fuel to the fire. You can't cowtow to every whim, but I think there is a time to be cautious and this is one of those times. By August, everything will be flowing again and we can move him or cut him then, if needbe.
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
I dont “want” to lose him either but ya gotta look at what else you would have to lose in a cap crunch year if you go crazy to keep him, especially when the packers have drafted what should be replacements for him in the past 2 years with 3rd round picks
as I said, what have you seem from Sternberger? and Dequora, well, same thing, and he is more of a HB anyway.
Tonya has the ability to get open, and has great hands, heck 2nd rounder tender is 4 plus mil. not much considering his production.
Are we getting into another price don't matter war again?
I have absolutely no Idea what your referring to, zipe, nada, zilch, however I want Kadar Toney really really bad, so I would obviously part with a draft pick to move up to get him, we have to prepare for the day we'll lose Devonte or when his skills decline anyway
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
as I said, what have you seem from Sternberger? and Dequora, well, same thing, and he is more of a HB anyway.
Tonya has the ability to get open, and has great hands, heck 2nd rounder tender is 4 plus mil. not much considering his production.
Are we getting into another price don't matter war again?
I have absolutely no Idea what your referring to, zipe, nada, zilch, however I want Kadar Toney really really bad, so I would obviously part with a draft pick to move up to get him, we have to prepare for the day we'll lose Devonte or when his skills decline anyway
Tonyan.
Re: Packers Release Christian Kirksey and Ricky Wagner
Are we getting into another price don't matter war again?
I have absolutely no Idea what your referring to, zipe, nada, zilch, however I want Kadar Toney really really bad, so I would obviously part with a draft pick to move up to get him, we have to prepare for the day we'll lose Devonte or when his skills decline anyway
Tonyan.
I figured you meant Tonyan, so I changed the subject to my new draft crush
I think most here are right, we'll be safe with the 2nd rounder tender for Tonyan, guess we'll find out soon enough.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Tonyan led the league in TD's with 11 for TE's, tied with Travis Kelce
Tonyan was 2nd in the league for catch per target percentage. Only Jamal Williams. a RB, was higher and by 89.7% vs 89.6%
Tonyan led the league for all WR's, RB's and TE's for fewest drops. He did not drop any.
Tonyan was 3rd in the league for QB rating when he was targeted, giving Rodgers a rating or 146.7. By comparison, Adams had 136. The only 2 players with higher stats had less than half his targets and receptions.
After showing bits and pieces of his potential in 2018 and 2019, Tonyan was a breakout star this year with 52 receptions for 586 yards and 11 touchdowns. Of the 34 tight ends who were targeted at least 40 times in the passing game, Tonyan was No. 1 in catch percentage (89.7), drop percentage (0.0) and passer rating (148.3), according to Pro Football Focus. In the bizarro world that is Pro Bowl voting, he lost out to the Giants’ Evan Engram, who had more receptions (63) and yards (654) but lagged far behind in touchdowns (one), catch percentage (61.8), drop percentage (11.3) and passer rating (59.8). ~ https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/gra ... tight-ends
I wasn't able to find a lot about Tonyan's blocking. There is criticism for a block on Chicago's Mack but how many TE's can block Mack?
So you tell me which TE in the league is better than Tonyan, and please explain why.
Kelce? He is 31 years old and his cap is $13 mil. Yes, Kelce is better but not when the salary cap is factored in and not better with his 120 QB rating
Kittle? Kittle just signed a 5 year $75 mil contract. 5 drops and 105 QB rating
Zach Ertz? 12.5 million salary cap. 6 TD's in 2019 and a big 1 TD in 2020, no Ertz is not better.
Gronkowski? 31 years old, 9.5 mil cap in 2020 UFA now. 7 TD's, 104 QB rating.
I am sorry, but if the Packers can keep Tonyan without a 1st round tender it will be a miracle. If they only put a 2nd round tender on him, someone is going to pay him 8 mil or more and the Packers can't afford that. Maybe the Bucs to replace Gronk. Y'all think that is a good idea? They have 28 mil in cap space. 2nd round draft pick to the SB champs isn't worth very much either. Put the 1st round tender on him and odds are they keep him for 5 mil
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Tonyan led the league in TD's with 11 for TE's, tied with Travis Kelce
Tonyan was 2nd in the league for catch per target percentage. Only Jamal Williams. a RB, was higher and by 89.7% vs 89.6%
Tonyan led the league for all WR's, RB's and TE's for fewest drops. He did not drop any.
Tonyan was 3rd in the league for QB rating when he was targeted, giving Rodgers a rating or 146.7. By comparison, Adams had 136. The only 2 players with higher stats had less than half his targets and receptions.
After showing bits and pieces of his potential in 2018 and 2019, Tonyan was a breakout star this year with 52 receptions for 586 yards and 11 touchdowns. Of the 34 tight ends who were targeted at least 40 times in the passing game, Tonyan was No. 1 in catch percentage (89.7), drop percentage (0.0) and passer rating (148.3), according to Pro Football Focus. In the bizarro world that is Pro Bowl voting, he lost out to the Giants’ Evan Engram, who had more receptions (63) and yards (654) but lagged far behind in touchdowns (one), catch percentage (61.8), drop percentage (11.3) and passer rating (59.8). ~ https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/gra ... tight-ends
I wasn't able to find a lot about Tonyan's blocking. There is criticism for a block on Chicago's Mack but how many TE's can block Mack?
So you tell me which TE in the league is better than Tonyan, and please explain why.
Kelce? He is 31 years old and his cap is $13 mil. Yes, Kelce is better but not when the salary cap is factored in and not better with his 120 QB rating
Kittle? Kittle just signed a 5 year $75 mil contract. 5 drops and 105 QB rating
Zach Ertz? 12.5 million salary cap. 6 TD's in 2019 and a big 1 TD in 2020, no Ertz is not better.
Gronkowski? 31 years old, 9.5 mil cap in 2020 UFA now. 7 TD's, 104 QB rating.
I am sorry, but if the Packers can keep Tonyan without a 1st round tender it will be a miracle. If they only put a 2nd round tender on him, someone is going to pay him 8 mil or more and the Packers can't afford that. Maybe the Bucs to replace Gronk. Y'all think that is a good idea? They have 28 mil in cap space. 2nd round draft pick to the SB champs isn't worth very much either. Put the 1st round tender on him and odds are they keep him for 5 mil
Yeah we are in a pickle for sure. The cost of our 2020 roster will force our hand in making tough decisions. This one is one of them. I would probably choose the 2nd round tender route and play my chances.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 18:59
by Backthepack4ever
2nd and roll the dice. I still think teams will overlook him.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 19:10
by lupedafiasco
If we are offered a 2nd round pick for Tonyan you thank that team and take that pick. Tonyan turn 27 in April. We have two young guys both 3rd round pick investments on rookie deals.
I would be very surprised in a year like this that a team is not only willing to give a 2nd round pick up but also pay Tonyan.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 22:34
by Labrev
If we were a couple of years away, I might agree with taking the 2nd for Tonyan.
But we are trying to make a run here, and I do not want to go back to the TE position being mediocre. Sternberger is meh. Deguara might be a player, but he's coming off the ACL; I doubt he will replace Bob's production next year.
I do not want to have to start over at TE, where it takes young guys some time to hit their stride when we have a guy doing that right now.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 22 Feb 2021 22:37
by Pckfn23
27 for 2021. Give him a 4 year contract starting in 2022 when he is 28. Play him for 4 years with his last season being at 31. I don't understand the issue with him currently being 26 years of age.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 23 Feb 2021 02:45
by texas
I agree with Pckfn. I think Tonyan is elite or on the cusp of being elite. Rodgers like to spread the ball around (unless it's Davante). If Tonyan were the focal point, he would be in the running for all pro 1st team. I don't think he's the league's top TE, but he's one of only a few names who you could see being on the radar. Especially after Kelce was sort of exposed in the Super Bowl
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
I agree with Pckfn. I think Tonyan is elite or on the cusp of being elite. Rodgers like to spread the ball around (unless it's Davante). If Tonyan were the focal point, he would be in the running for all pro 1st team. I don't think he's the league's top TE, but he's one of only a few names who you could see being on the radar. Especially after Kelce was sort of exposed in the Super Bowl
He was very, very productive last year and very efficient too. What, exactly, would you consider elite about him, though? He's a very average blocker. Given what the TE position is around the league he is a very average athlete. He is an elite try-hard, but so are a lot of guys. Just curious if anyone can actually explain what it is about him that has everyone so terrified of losing him.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
Posted: 23 Feb 2021 06:58
by TheSkeptic
There is a problem with Mercedes Lewis. He will be 37 years old in May. So 27 is a problem for Tonyan but 37 is not for Lewis?
There are problems with Sternberger. In 2 years he has been active for 18 games. In 2 years he has 12 catches for 114 yards. In the playoffs, Sternberger was a healthy scratch. And he has dropped too many passes.
There are 2 problems with Deguara. #1 is that he is coming off an ACL. #2 is that he is not a Tight End. He is an H-back. He is only 6'2".
As for Tonyan not being a great athlete
"He is an absolutely insane athlete" ~ Kittle, with whom he works out in the offseason.
Kittle and Tonyan have the same agent. That agent got Kittle 5 years and 75 mil.
Re: RFA Discussion (Split From Wagner/Kirskey Thread)
