Packers Huddle

paco wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 15:07

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 14:39

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 14:31

Sounds like its all about dbs and pass rush. They going to draft both positions early and prob often imo

So yoop will still be complaining about ILB?

Probably. And Gutey said they expect Preston Smith back. I've always thought it was premature to assume he'd be cut. Especially with Barry coming in (some familiarity there). Might be a restructure candidate.

Yup. I'm thinking they have to keep Preston. If they cut him to save the bucks, they'll pick up a FA with less ability (most likely) or draft a rookie who'll be unknown. Might as well try to restructure his contract and keep him if they can.

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 17:23

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 16:27

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 15:23

Maybe they actually place priority on the Star Cornerback this year rather than hope Raven Greene can give us more than 50 snaps in a season?

What does this mean schematically? I'm not familiar with the term.

Based on Barry today. Star = Nickle. So essentially your 3rd DB who plays 80% of the snaps and their coverage responsibilities are not on the outside boundary.

Per Barry, it is advantageous when you have multiple CBs who can play the star role so the opposing offense doesn't always know who will cover the interior of the field.

Just knowing how some of these defenses have deployed there defenses, too, I came away thinking this will be much more of a Charles Woodson version of a slot CB and much less of the Chandon Sullivan version of a slot CB. Probably a lot more run and pass blitzing and a more physical player... but also one with a lot of twitch, because coverage is still #1. He was asked specifically if Jaire is big enough and he gave a VERY long-winded answer but boiled down to a general, duh, they want players how can play the boundary and also the star position, but some guys cannot do it.

Me reading into it, I would expect Jaire to play the slot more this year because of his twitch and coverage ability, but I do think they want a bigger, even more physical guy there to let Jaire continue to dominate the outside.

paco wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 15:07

And Gutey said they expect Preston Smith back. I've always thought it was premature to assume he'd be cut. Especially with Barry coming in (some familiarity there). Might be a restructure candidate.

I was never fully on board with cutting Preston Smith, either. Seems like the guy fans want to cut so we have money so we can go sign a 3rd-pass rusher.

Also, my takeaway from listening to LaFleur, Barry (to a lesser extent), and especially Gute. It seems the organizational stance is that Mike Pettine $%@# Preston Smith. Also, very interesting, now, in retrospect how the balance was there for Pettine in 2019 when he had Fackrell to be that coverage guy. Without him, it does make some sense that Pettine probably tried, stubbornly so, to make Preston Smith be everything he lost in Fackrell and didn't "maximize his personnel". I could be reading into too much, but definitely one of my biggest takeaways from yesterday is the organization blames Mike Pettine for Preston Smith's 2020 season.

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 08:53

Just knowing how some of these defenses have deployed there defenses, too, I came away thinking this will be much more of a Charles Woodson version of a slot CB and much less of the Chandon Sullivan version of a slot CB. Probably a lot more run and pass blitzing and a more physical player... but also one with a lot of twitch, because coverage is still #1. He was asked specifically if Jaire is big enough and he gave a VERY long-winded answer but boiled down to a general, duh, they want players how can play the boundary and also the star position, but some guys cannot do it.

Me reading into it, I would expect Jaire to play the slot more this year because of his twitch and coverage ability, but I do think they want a bigger, even more physical guy there to let Jaire continue to dominate the outside.

It's interesting. I've been trying to focus in on who, exactly, they want for that position--type-wise.

I've been really looking into the bigger more physical guys for an inside role, but also aware that the guys we have right now (outside of Jaire) are also the longer, bigger types, though not as physical or twitchy.

But I looked at the Rams roster and their non-Ramsey CBs (the next 3, all of whom played well) are the 5'10, 190 pound twicthy zone types. They seem to run in the high 4.4s and low 4.5s. In essence, nothing particularly standout about their traits aside from everyone having a 3-cone in the 6.8s or lower (the twitchiness part). Very much in the Samuel Jr mold of player.

But I think you're right that a more physical demeanor--tackling, blitzing, etc could be something to look for. Ugh, getting Jaycee Horn would be so cool.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 08:59

But I think you're right that a more physical demeanor--tackling, blitzing, etc could be something to look for. Ugh, getting Jaycee Horn would be so cool.

I will say those Rams guys, although small, pack a punch and will come up and hit.

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 08:57

paco wrote: ↑

02 Mar 2021 15:07

And Gutey said they expect Preston Smith back. I've always thought it was premature to assume he'd be cut. Especially with Barry coming in (some familiarity there). Might be a restructure candidate.

I was never fully on board with cutting Preston Smith, either. Seems like the guy fans want to cut so we have money so we can go sign a 3rd-pass rusher.

Also, my takeaway from listening to LaFleur, Barry (to a lesser extent), and especially Gute. It seems the organizational stance is that Mike Pettine $%@# Preston Smith. Also, very interesting, now, in retrospect how the balance was there for Pettine in 2019 when he had Fackrell to be that coverage guy. Without him, it does make some sense that Pettine probably tried, stubbornly so, to make Preston Smith be everything he lost in Fackrell and didn't "maximize his personnel". I could be reading into too much, but definitely one of my biggest takeaways from yesterday is the organization blames Mike Pettine for Preston Smith's 2020 season.

I too think Pettine misused P. Smith. I hated seeing him out there chasing RBs and TEs. He's much more effective opposite Z rushing the passer IMO.

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 09:20

Also, my takeaway from listening to LaFleur, Barry (to a lesser extent), and especially Gute. It seems the organizational stance is that Mike Pettine $%@# Preston Smith. Also, very interesting, now, in retrospect how the balance was there for Pettine in 2019 when he had Fackrell to be that coverage guy. Without him, it does make some sense that Pettine probably tried, stubbornly so, to make Preston Smith be everything he lost in Fackrell and didn't "maximize his personnel". I could be reading into too much, but definitely one of my biggest takeaways from yesterday is the organization blames Mike Pettine for Preston Smith's 2020 season.

worth noting that Barry was Preston's DC for his first two years in the league

The fans certainly blame Pettine and the comments in this thread are proof of that

But really - what other choices did Pettine actually have at his disposal ? Somebody has to drop into those zones, somebody has to cover the TE's and RBs on the short stuff. Whining about using Preston ignores the fact that GB did not have a viable 4th OLB and the ILB crew was young, inexperienced, injured and unavailable (as well as being poor in coverage) Raven Greene, Kamal Martin, Kirksey, Barnes all missed big chunks of the season.

Its a zero sum game and if you want Preston just going forward, then either Z or Gary or one of the ILBs gets the call and y'all would be in here trashing Pettine for that decision. Pettine made the best of a very difficult situation and he paid the ultimate price - so no need to keep kicking him.
Tell me - who else on the 2020 defense YOU would have chosen for that critical role ?

I'll save you the trouble: Nobody.
So do everybody a favor... and quit living in the convenient vacuum of contextless griping. Its unbecoming.

Change the scheme. If the scheme requires a good 4th OLB and you don't have that... Not simple, but may have provided a better result. Unless we are playing 3 DL and 2 OLBs, the scheme shouldn't require an OLB to drop in the first place.

Pettine wasn't He Shall Not be Named bad, but he made some poor decisions this past year.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 08:59

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 08:53

Just knowing how some of these defenses have deployed there defenses, too, I came away thinking this will be much more of a Charles Woodson version of a slot CB and much less of the Chandon Sullivan version of a slot CB. Probably a lot more run and pass blitzing and a more physical player... but also one with a lot of twitch, because coverage is still #1. He was asked specifically if Jaire is big enough and he gave a VERY long-winded answer but boiled down to a general, duh, they want players how can play the boundary and also the star position, but some guys cannot do it.

Me reading into it, I would expect Jaire to play the slot more this year because of his twitch and coverage ability, but I do think they want a bigger, even more physical guy there to let Jaire continue to dominate the outside.

It's interesting. I've been trying to focus in on who, exactly, they want for that position--type-wise.

I've been really looking into the bigger more physical guys for an inside role, but also aware that the guys we have right now (outside of Jaire) are also the longer, bigger types, though not as physical or twitchy.

But I looked at the Rams roster and their non-Ramsey CBs (the next 3, all of whom played well) are the 5'10, 190 pound twicthy zone types. They seem to run in the high 4.4s and low 4.5s. In essence, nothing particularly standout about their traits aside from everyone having a 3-cone in the 6.8s or lower (the twitchiness part). Very much in the Samuel Jr mold of player.

But I think you're right that a more physical demeanor--tackling, blitzing, etc could be something to look for. Ugh, getting Jaycee Horn would be so cool.

So my draft crush before yesterday was Zaven Collins because I thought we needed that ILB for the Fangio scheme.

After watching the Barry PC, my draft crush immediately switched to Asante Samuel Jr. I want twitch and attitude. Jaire isn't big, but his attitude is big and I have no worries about Jaire doing what he needs in run support or blowing up a screen.

Paulson Adebo is a bit larger in that 6' 1" range who I also really like with a 3rd round pick.

I don't think you can stick Collins at ILB full time and have him be successful.

I'm listening to these now and it's very clear that Joe Barry is not particularly used to beat reporters who know football. He's like blown away by the level of detail in the questions and explaining things from the ground up. I know he's been a lot of places, but can't help but chuckle at what the L.A. media must've given him, haha

BSA wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 10:46

The fans certainly blame Pettine and the comments in this thread are proof of that

But really - what other choices did Pettine actually have at his disposal ? Somebody has to drop into those zones, somebody has to cover the TE's and RBs on the short stuff. Whining about using Preston ignores the fact that GB did not have a viable 4th OLB and the ILB crew was young, inexperienced, injured and unavailable (as well as being poor in coverage) Raven Greene, Kamal Martin, Kirksey, Barnes all missed big chunks of the season.

Its a zero sum game and if you want Preston just going forward, then either Z or Gary or one of the ILBs gets the call and y'all would be in here trashing Pettine for that decision. Pettine made the best of a very difficult situation and he paid the ultimate price - so no need to keep kicking him.
Tell me - who else on the 2020 defense YOU would have chosen for that critical role ?

I'll save you the trouble: Nobody.
So do everybody a favor... and quit living in the convenient vacuum of contextless griping. Its unbecoming.

it's just easier to blame coaches then to actually figure out why they do what they do, spot on, someone has to drop

ok, Drayton is an impressive dude

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 11:06

I'm listening to these now and it's very clear that Joe Barry is not particularly used to beat reporters who know football. He's like blown away by the level of detail in the questions and explaining things from the ground up. I know he's been a lot of places, but can't help but chuckle at what the L.A. media must've given him, haha

I think it's smart to show respect to beat reporters as soon as possible which is how I took some of Barry's answers, and Barry didn't refer to the nickle spot as the star player, dougherty did, I thought Barry answered the questions the best he could, it's hard to say to much until you know better the players he'll have to work with, we moved Woodson in and out depending on the match ups, if you have a offense with a stud slot receiver, then you need a nickle that can defend him, for instance why watch a guy like Sullivan burned over and over just so Alexander can shut down there #1, I bet that that some of those #1's could be covered just as well with one of our other corners, Know what I mean?

if anything I think Pettines issues was that he was to regid, remember how often he dropped Mathews into coverage his first season, I remember Clay complaining about it back then, same to some degree with Prestine Smith, gotta figure a way to mix that up better, or ya get what happened to prestine, who wouldn't target a player so enept at coverage, at least with Mathews it worked a little better, Prestine was like a lamb led to slaughter

I liked that Barry mentioned some area's of concern, tackling, shedding and avoiding blockers, playing faster, the need for instinctive players versus square dot types who have to have there hand held and can't think for themselves, the point of owning his mistakes is refreshing, and we all know that people do learn more from failure then they tend to from successes, success is a breeding ground for complacency and as a result from that, decline, I expect a lot of cover 2

Preston actually dropped back less last season. Though not significantly.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 10:54

Change the scheme. If the scheme requires a good 4th OLB and you don't have that... Not simple, but may have provided a better result. Unless we are playing 3 DL and 2 OLBs, the scheme shouldn't require an OLB to drop in the first place.

Pettine wasn't He Shall Not be Named bad, but he made some poor decisions this past year.

How dare you suggest that it is the responsibility of coaches to put players in a position to succeed.

paco wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 12:02

Preston actually dropped back less last season. Though not significantly.

Yes, but part of the equation is what they are being asked to do when dropping back. Notice how we never really complained about this in 2019? It didn't stick out. It wasn't obvious. Last year, Preston on an island... that was obvious. And it was disastrous.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 12:05

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 10:54

Change the scheme. If the scheme requires a good 4th OLB and you don't have that... Not simple, but may have provided a better result. Unless we are playing 3 DL and 2 OLBs, the scheme shouldn't require an OLB to drop in the first place.

Pettine wasn't He Shall Not be Named bad, but he made some poor decisions this past year.

How dare you suggest that it is the responsibility of coaches to put players in a position to succeed.

we hear comments like this regularly from some of you, please inform us how Pettine could have accomplished what you ask, come on now, where all ears?

BSA wrote: ↑

03 Mar 2021 10:46

Tell me - who else on the 2020 defense YOU would have chosen for that critical role ?

In lieu of a cover-LBer, I would go with an S. Raven Greene not being available, I would go with Vernon Scott. Or move Amos up there and have Scott or hell even Redmond man the vacated safety spot. 'Not saying I know what the heck I'm talking about, but you asked.