Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 13:47

I like Molden a lot. But his 40 time genuinely concerns me. I did not expect it to be above 4.6

I know not everyone is on board with measurable cutoffs, but a CB with LB speed is tough for me. If he comes here, though, that nickel job is his.

As for the rest. I just am sick of three safety looks. It feels like a compromise because we don’t have enough good CBs or good enough LBs. If we’re talking a JOK out Isaiah Simmons hybrid type of guy, I can see that use. But putting three safeties on the field because we don’t have any CBs who can pull off the role Charles Woodson and then Casey Hayward played for us, to me, is a stopgap. Not something I want to do intentionally.

why are you tired of the 3 safety's with one being a hybrid lber, the issue is the 3rd safety has been Sullivan or some other limited player, And Savage has great coverage ability, we have been getting beat up underneath, not so much over the top, why use such a talented player to back up what hasn't hurt us as much, also we have a speedy Vernon Scott, that can back up King.

Let's not forget that Nick Collins's FS play was a key part of what made that secondary so deadly.

I mean, it's worth thinking about. If, for some reason, the draft shakes out in a way that a pure safety is the best use of our pick, then sure, maybe the idea of moving Savage to the role makes sense. Otherwise, I don't see much point in moving a player if it just amounts to filling one need by creating another.

I do like the idea of drafting a DB with a versatile safety/nickel skill-set relatively high, though (Day 1 or 2). I have been on that train for a while. Budda Baker was for me what TJ Watt was for every other Packer fan that year. I also wanted Minkah Fitzpatrick something fierce a couple years later.

That's if you find a guy who has a skill set that would really shine at this position; Baker and Fitz have been studs. Otherwise, I feel like one of the benefits of a scheme that uses Star corners heavily is that those guys are relatively easy to find and you don't have to burn high picks into the position to get good play out of it.

Tightening up the middle of our defense (ILB, DT2) can help out the rest of the D in a big way.

Labrev wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 15:24

I do like the idea of drafting a DB with a versatile safety/nickel skill-set relatively high, though (Day 1 or 2). I have been on that train for a while. Budda Baker was for me what TJ Watt was for every other Packer fan that year.

Ugh, love Budda

Labrev wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 15:22

Let's not forget that Nick Collins's FS play was a key part of what made that secondary so deadly.

I mean, it's worth thinking about. If, for some reason, the draft shakes out in a way that a pure safety is the best use of our pick, then sure, maybe the idea of moving Savage to the role makes sense. Otherwise, I don't see much point in moving a player if it just amounts to filling one need by creating another.

Collins had CB coverage ability, I think he was a HS CB and played it his freshman year in college, also Collins pinched up towards the box often, heck he was only about 10 or 12 yrds deep with his pick 6 in the SB, ideally ya'd like your safety's to be near interchangable, as we are pretty close to now with Amos and SAvage, although I think Savage has a skill set that Amos can only dream about, and he's only played 2 years.

anxious to see the direction of the draft, and how and who Barry will use in the star roll, the short interior of our defense has screamed for better coverage for a long time.

I really like Ifeatu because he can outside corner. I think he can also play interior as a safety because of his size and the dude moves well. So he likely has the ability to play a lot of different roles/positions.

I don't really know of any inside guys after the 2nd day to target.

speaking of the star role, is there a sure-fire star in this draft that you'd love to move up for ?
I'm not interested in hearing about how its cost-prohibitive or that the Packers would never do that -

I just don't watch much college football and wondered if there is a perfect star candidate in this 2021 draft

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 16:40

speaking of the star role, is there a sure-fire star in this draft that you'd love to move up for ?
I'm not interested in hearing about how its cost-prohibitive or that the Packers would never do that -

I just don't watch much college football and wondered if there is a perfect star candidate in this 2021 draft

I would move up for Greg Newsome. I like him a lot. If he makes it to 25 I wouldn't be mad at all on giving up a 4th to get him.

I think every other corner is kind of not in the realm of possibility unless we are looking at CB's 4 - 6 on the big board. I just think CB's 1 - 3 will be out of our range in that top 20. And if Farley does drop, it will likely be because of injury concern which means the Packers also wouldn't sign off on it.

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 17:16

BSA wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 16:40

speaking of the star role, is there a sure-fire star in this draft that you'd love to move up for ?
I'm not interested in hearing about how its cost-prohibitive or that the Packers would never do that -

I just don't watch much college football and wondered if there is a perfect star candidate in this 2021 draft

I would move up for Greg Newsome. I like him a lot. If he makes it to 25 I wouldn't be mad at all on giving up a 4th to get him.

I think every other corner is kind of not in the realm of possibility unless we are looking at CB's 4 - 6 on the big board. I just think CB's 1 - 3 will be out of our range in that top 20. And if Farley does drop, it will likely be because of injury concern which means the Packers also wouldn't sign off on it.

Agreed completely and would add that I would NOT move up for Fairley, whether the Packers would or not. He's such a gamble that gambling two picks on him instead of one is a risk profile I'm not comfortable with.

But I agree that there is a pretty thick line where Surtain and Horn are out of reach, Newsome and Fairley would be good at our spot, and then a completely jumbled tier of preferences from that point on who could each go from 30 to 75 without much surprise to me.

What do we think about Shaun Wade as a "star."

I've gone up and down on him; seems like his final season stunk. But it might be that his ideal/only role is as a physical inside player, and that going outside is what hurt his stock. Is he a good buy low candidate now? Or is he not a good/sudden enough athlete to fit the role.

I want a defense that puts pressure on the offense. Having trouble understanding how 3 safeties makes that happen when we've got Lowry and Lancaster up front along with a double teamed Kenny Clark. Something's gotta change this mindset I think.

Are there any "star" linebackers that we should we be focusing on instead? Where's the next Wayne Simmons or Dave Robinson?

Has Barry mentioned the star role in any of his pressers?

PFF has this Kid Grant as there #4 safety, 6.0 200 lbs, has man cover skills, best spot would be deep safety at first, I think it's easier to replace the FS position then it is to find a Star, probably why Butler and others endorse moving Savage to that position, he's got the skill set, and experience in the league to pick up the complicated aspects that go along with playing a diverse position.

anyway heres a little on Richie Grant.

4. RICHIE GRANT, UCF
Grant has shown off about as complete an NFL skill set over the course of his UCF career as any safety in this draft class. He started his career off as mostly a deep safety, making a splash with six picks and four pass breakups in his first year as a starter in 2018. He then transitioned to a more versatile role the next two seasons — one that’s very similar to what he might play in the NFL — and continued to make plays. He’s quite easily one of the best safeties in run support. His quick read and fill ability led to a 90.0 run-defense grade this past season.

The icing on the cake for Grant was his performance in the one-on-ones at the Senior Bowl. Safeties aren’t supposed to look like they belong there. The ones that do are rare. No safety made more plays throughout the week than Grant, who stuck with receivers like a cornerback.

sounds pretty good to me, another player that with a season should be able to move around.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 20:16

Has Barry mentioned the star role in any of his pressers?

It was by far his largest theme in his presser. He said it's the most important role in his defense.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 18:54

What do we think about Shaun Wade as a "star."

I've gone up and down on him; seems like his final season stunk. But it might be that his ideal/only role is as a physical inside player, and that going outside is what hurt his stock. Is he a good buy low candidate now? Or is he not a good/sudden enough athlete to fit the role.

I didn't like that he had such a bad year last year on the outside. But I am hopeful it pushes him down into Day 3. I just don't think you spend a Day 1 or 2 pick on him. But I wouldn't be mad in Round 4 at all.

Those are the kind of value picks we want at that position.

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 21:15

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 20:16

Has Barry mentioned the star role in any of his pressers?

It was by far his largest theme in his presser. He said it's the most important role in his defense.

So, I am wondering if the media is reading too much into what the Star role actually is. From Barry's presser where he did go on about the star role:

In today’s football, there is always the big question are you 4-3 or 3-4. And we will be a 3-4 base, we will, we will implement that, I feel we are built for that currently. We will continue to do that. You guys have to remember from a 4-3 3-4 standpoint. . . you have what you referred to as a star or nickel corner the 3rd corner on the field. I’m talking, you have that person on the field 80% of the time. The fact that you are a 4-3 or 3-4 base really doesn’t matter.

From the defensive standpoint, you better have good pass rushers and really good DBs. Specifically that nickel position, that star position. I think it’s vital. It is a little bit different looking at the defense, not to get into a ton of schematics . . . when you move inside where the nickel or star position aligns, you have a whole ‘nother skill set you need to take on. Just because a guy is a great corner outside, you put them inside at the nickel or star position it is a completely different world. I am from the school that you cannot have enough guys who are potential nickels. So I am not going to name any names, but I cannot wait to get these guys in here and teach the system teach them our philosophy, and really see if we have one true nickel or two three four guys. . . In today’s football, you better have a great nickel or star corner.

He uses the 2 terms, nickel and star, together constantly. I am one to believe that that is because the star corner is simply what what they are calling the nickel corner and not necessarily some hybrid type role. Now, he definitely emphasizes that he can't have too many good ones, so we will be looking for. However, I can't help but think it doesn't have to be Charles Woodson, but a corner who excels at interior coverage.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 18:54

What do we think about Shaun Wade as a "star."

I've gone up and down on him; seems like his final season stunk. But it might be that his ideal/only role is as a physical inside player, and that going outside is what hurt his stock. Is he a good buy low candidate now? Or is he not a good/sudden enough athlete to fit the role.

I was just thinking about this like an hour ago looking at PFF rankings. Wade stinks outside but is a gamer in the slot. Hes got the size and speed to not only hang with receivers but play the run as well. Really good blitzer. PFF has him as a third round guy. Thats a steal for someone who is gonna be just a really active ball player inside. Id love him as a 2nd round pick. Hed be an exciting piece you can do a lot with.

Also didnt see Moldens pro day numbers. 4.59 is very disappointing I thought he would be in the upper 4.4s considering pro day numbers are skewed to be fast. To me that makes him undraftable. Sad to see. That guys instincts are off the charts.

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 19:18

I want a defense that puts pressure on the offense. Having trouble understanding how 3 safeties makes that happen when we've got Lowry and Lancaster up front along with a double teamed Kenny Clark. Something's gotta change this mindset I think.

Are there any "star" linebackers that we should we be focusing on instead? Where's the next Wayne Simmons or Dave Robinson?

Jamin Davis may have pro day'd himself out of our range but thats my #1 choice if hes there at 29 realistically Im just starting to think he might be the 2nd LB off the board now.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 22:08

go pak go wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 21:15

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

06 Apr 2021 20:16

Has Barry mentioned the star role in any of his pressers?

It was by far his largest theme in his presser. He said it's the most important role in his defense.

So, I am wondering if the media is reading too much into what the Star role actually is. From Barry's presser where he did go on about the star role:

In today’s football, there is always the big question are you 4-3 or 3-4. And we will be a 3-4 base, we will, we will implement that, I feel we are built for that currently. We will continue to do that. You guys have to remember from a 4-3 3-4 standpoint. . . you have what you referred to as a star or nickel corner the 3rd corner on the field. I’m talking, you have that person on the field 80% of the time. The fact that you are a 4-3 or 3-4 base really doesn’t matter.

From the defensive standpoint, you better have good pass rushers and really good DBs. Specifically that nickel position, that star position. I think it’s vital. It is a little bit different looking at the defense, not to get into a ton of schematics . . . when you move inside where the nickel or star position aligns, you have a whole ‘nother skill set you need to take on. Just because a guy is a great corner outside, you put them inside at the

nickel or star

position it is a completely different world. I am from the school that you cannot have enough guys who are potential nickels. So I am not going to name any names, but I cannot wait to get these guys in here and teach the system teach them our philosophy, and really see if we have one true nickel or two three four guys. . . In today’s football, you better have a great nickel or star corner.

He uses the 2 terms, nickel and star, together constantly. I am one to believe that that is because the star corner is simply what what they are calling the nickel corner and not necessarily some hybrid type role. Now, he definitely emphasizes that he can't have too many good ones, so we will be looking for. However, I can't help but think it doesn't have to be Charles Woodson, but a corner who excels at interior coverage.

One thing I would like to see improvement from our nickle or star position is our blitzing ability. There is real potential to have your blitzer be a game changer if he is good at it.

And Chandon Sullivan might possibly be the worst blitzer I have ever seen in my life. I am dead serious too.

It’s a spot ready-made for talented players because they line up in the middle of the action as cover men, run defenders and blitzers. It’s where Rod Woodson and Charles Woodson had the biggest seasons of their Pro Football Hall of Fame careers.

this Star position is so perfect for Savage, didn't he blitz a few times successfully last year?

anyway JS Online is featuring players the Pack might be interested, and there first guy is a ILB, of course, just a day after they want to move Savage to ILB, but Collins is more like a sam or MLB to me, and he sounds like he could do that well, big Lanky, quick, but slow, with pass rush ability, good read.


First in a Packers Prospects series looking at players Green Bay could select in the April 29-May 1 NFL draft.

GREEN BAY – In a copycat league, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers set a template en route to their Super Bowl LV title.

Gone is the inside linebacker who merely stops the run and drops into coverage. Yes, that size-speed combination still is necessary at the position, but something more is required to be an all-around playmaker.

In Devin White, the second-team All-Pro who dominated in the Bucs’ playoff run from NFC fifth seed to NFL champions, defensive coordinator Todd Bowles unleashed pass-rushing havoc from the second level. White had nine sacks in the regular season, one against the Green Bay Packers in a Week 5 meeting.

Tulsa linebacker Zaven Collins is not the same prospect White was when he entered the NFL draft from LSU and was drafted fifth overall in 2019. That might be good news for the Packers, who select 29th overall in the first round this month. Because the Packers could use a linebacker with the versatile playmaking potential Collins showed last season while winning the Bronko Nagurski and Chuck Bednarik Awards as the nation’s top defensive player.


Collins, a first-team All-American last season, has the size (6-4 7/8, 259 pounds) and speed (4.67-second 40) to line up at either linebacker spot, whether that be the edge or off the ball. His four sacks as a junior last season were an uptick from 3.5 combined in his first two years with the Golden Hurricane.

He might be just scratching his potential as a pass rusher. Collins’ 90.6 rush grade last season was a 31.5-point increase from 2019 and ranked fourth among college linebackers last season, according to Pro Football Focus. He had 16 pressures in 51 pass-rush snaps in 2020.

For his size, Collins also impressed in coverage. He had four interceptions last season, returning one 27 yards against Tulane. His 93 coverage grade led all college linebackers, according to PFF.