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Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 09:16
by go pak go
Also, for those hoping that rookies are going to come in and make an immediate impact this year....I think you will largely be disappointed.
It basically looks like now that all min-camps and OTAs and rookie camps could very well be postponed if not eliminated in their usual sense of practicing as a team due to COVID.
So the learning curve for these rookies are just going to be that much harder.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 09:33
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 09:14
I hate to be that guy. But honestly don't get wrapped up in what mocks say. Mocks are good in that it can at least provide a general sense of where a player lies such as is an early first talent, late first to early 2nd or is he then a day 2 guy or day 3 guy. That's about all I use them for.
Walterfootball has no clue where GM's rate guys especially in today's age where Mike Mayock is no longer in the mocking world.
Also when mocks change...it's generally not because players are "rising" or "falling". Especially this year. There are basically no pro days. There are no scout visits. So there really is no further information for someone to rise or fall.
I think mocks changing it up and having players be switched around is a lot more about click bait than it is about the draft changing in any way.
often mocks change because UFA changes team needs and mock are based on team needs, sure, I agree if mockers didn't change em a few times no one would go back to look again, why would they, so I'am sure there is some truth to that.
also though a mockers player perception does change, and it's why I say the combine changed a lot of scouts perception of Mims, I can't imagine a teams big board that has him with a 2nd round grade now, and these mocks that do like Draft teck are probably doing it for as you say "click bait" OR no one thinks what he did at the combine is transferable, myself, what he did at the combine looked real to me, and I expect we'll see that on draft day.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 10:09
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 09:33
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 09:14
I hate to be that guy. But honestly don't get wrapped up in what mocks say. Mocks are good in that it can at least provide a general sense of where a player lies such as is an early first talent, late first to early 2nd or is he then a day 2 guy or day 3 guy. That's about all I use them for.
Walterfootball has no clue where GM's rate guys especially in today's age where Mike Mayock is no longer in the mocking world.
Also when mocks change...it's generally not because players are "rising" or "falling". Especially this year. There are basically no pro days. There are no scout visits. So there really is no further information for someone to rise or fall.
I think mocks changing it up and having players be switched around is a lot more about click bait than it is about the draft changing in any way.
often mocks change because UFA changes team needs and mock are based on team needs, sure, I agree if mockers didn't change em a few times no one would go back to look again, why would they, so I'am sure there is some truth to that.
also though a mockers player perception does change, and it's why I say the combine changed a lot of scouts perception of Mims, I can't imagine a teams big board that has him with a 2nd round grade now, and these mocks that do like Draft teck are probably doing it for as you say "click bait" OR no one thinks what he did at the combine is transferable, myself, what he did at the combine looked real to me, and I expect we'll see that on draft day.
Yeah I just don't think there is much reason to worry. I sense you are pretty worried about which WR to take at 30 and if one will be available and will we be willing to reach at 30 if necessary. Though I think Aiyuk would be worth it at 30, there are so many good WRs in this draft at the top that we will be fine.
I mean Juedy, Lamb, Ruggs, Jefferson, Mims, Reagor, Shenault, Hamler, Aiyuk, Higgins. That's 10 WRs alone I wouldn't be surprised someone nabs round one.
Then you have at least 3 CBs, 5 Tackles, 2 IOL, 2 - 4 DL, 3 RBs, multiple QBs, multiple Edge, 2 safeties. Like this is a really good draft.
The way I look at it, if your next group of QBs go in the 20's we will get a great player to us at 30. If only like 3 QBs go by our pick....we will have so much offers for trading back that we would be stupid not to take it.
This really should be a good draft for us.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 10:21
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 10:09
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 09:33
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 09:14
I hate to be that guy. But honestly don't get wrapped up in what mocks say. Mocks are good in that it can at least provide a general sense of where a player lies such as is an early first talent, late first to early 2nd or is he then a day 2 guy or day 3 guy. That's about all I use them for.
Walterfootball has no clue where GM's rate guys especially in today's age where Mike Mayock is no longer in the mocking world.
Also when mocks change...it's generally not because players are "rising" or "falling". Especially this year. There are basically no pro days. There are no scout visits. So there really is no further information for someone to rise or fall.
I think mocks changing it up and having players be switched around is a lot more about click bait than it is about the draft changing in any way.
often mocks change because UFA changes team needs and mock are based on team needs, sure, I agree if mockers didn't change em a few times no one would go back to look again, why would they, so I'am sure there is some truth to that.
also though a mockers player perception does change, and it's why I say the combine changed a lot of scouts perception of Mims, I can't imagine a teams big board that has him with a 2nd round grade now, and these mocks that do like Draft teck are probably doing it for as you say "click bait" OR no one thinks what he did at the combine is transferable, myself, what he did at the combine looked real to me, and I expect we'll see that on draft day.
Yeah I just don't think there is much reason to worry. I sense you are pretty worried about which WR to take at 30 and if one will be available and will we be willing to reach at 30 if necessary. Though I think Aiyuk would be worth it at 30, there are so many good WRs in this draft at the top that we will be fine.
I mean Juedy, Lamb, Ruggs, Jefferson, Mims, Reagor, Shenault, Hamler, Aiyuk, Higgins. That's 10 WRs alone I wouldn't be surprised someone nabs round one.
Then you have at least 3 CBs, 5 Tackles, 2 IOL, 2 - 4 DL, 3 RBs, multiple QBs, multiple Edge, 2 safeties. Like this is a really good draft.
The way I look at it, if your next group of QBs go in the 20's we will get a great player to us at 30. If only like 3 QBs go by our pick....we will have so much offers for trading back that we would be stupid not to take it.
This really should be a good draft for us.
I agree, and any receiver we take in that bunch will help Rodgers and our offense, this is a good class, and not just receivers.
I wouldn't mind sliding back a little and picking up a 3rd rounder as long as I could still get one, as you said rookie coach up time will be limited, so with that in mind I want the most ready to play option I can get at WR, more then any other position i think another top tier receiver will help our team the most.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 10:24
by go pak go
I have a feeling yoop you will be disappointed on Thursday night because our first pick will end up not being a WR. I think there is a very strong chance of that.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 11:04
by YoHoChecko
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 10:21
I wouldn't mind sliding back a little and picking up a 3rd rounder as long as I could still get one, as you said rookie coach up time will be limited, so with that in mind I want the most ready to play option I can get at WR, more then any other position i think another top tier receiver will help our team the most.
At this point, with Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson virtually locks to be gone before our pick, I LOVE the idea of sliding back far enough to pick up a 3rd (45-50ish range), grabbing from the group of Ayiuk, Reagor, and Shenault in mid-round 2, then getting a LB, OT, and TE/DL with our 2nd/3rd/3rd picks.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 12:10
by Yoop
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 11:04
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 10:21
I wouldn't mind sliding back a little and picking up a 3rd rounder as long as I could still get one, as you said rookie coach up time will be limited, so with that in mind I want the most ready to play option I can get at WR, more then any other position i think another top tier receiver will help our team the most.
At this point, with Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson virtually locks to be gone before our pick, I LOVE the idea of sliding back far enough to pick up a 3rd (45-50ish range), grabbing from the group of Ayiuk, Reagor, and Shenault in mid-round 2, then getting a LB, OT, and TE/DL with our 2nd/3rd/3rd picks.
spot on Yoho, I think a move like this would max out our draft capitol, both Ayuik and Reagor are almost sure thing to play up to those draft slots, and if Shenault can stay healthy we've probably drafted a real gem., and now we've added more ammo to fill in the other weak spots.
once those 4 are gone I think moving back is the smart play.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 12:19
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 10:24
I have a feeling yoop you will be disappointed on Thursday night because our first pick will end up not being a WR. I think there is a very strong chance of that.
it's possible, but I'am batting 50/50 with Guty, so I do have hope that he wont screw up like last year.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 13:07
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 12:10
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 11:04
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 10:21
I wouldn't mind sliding back a little and picking up a 3rd rounder as long as I could still get one, as you said rookie coach up time will be limited, so with that in mind I want the most ready to play option I can get at WR, more then any other position i think another top tier receiver will help our team the most.
At this point, with Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson virtually locks to be gone before our pick, I LOVE the idea of sliding back far enough to pick up a 3rd (45-50ish range), grabbing from the group of Ayiuk, Reagor, and Shenault in mid-round 2, then getting a LB, OT, and TE/DL with our 2nd/3rd/3rd picks.
spot on Yoho, I think a move like this would max out our draft capitol, both Ayuik and Reagor are almost sure thing to play up to those draft slots, and if Shenault can stay healthy we've probably drafted a real gem., and now we've added more ammo to fill in the other weak spots.
once those 4 are gone I think moving back is the smart play.
I'm sorry but Shenault sucks as a route runner. We need someone who is a good technical route runner.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 13:46
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 13:07
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 12:10
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 11:04
At this point, with Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson virtually locks to be gone before our pick, I LOVE the idea of sliding back far enough to pick up a 3rd (45-50ish range), grabbing from the group of Ayiuk, Reagor, and Shenault in mid-round 2, then getting a LB, OT, and TE/DL with our 2nd/3rd/3rd picks.
spot on Yoho, I think a move like this would max out our draft capitol, both Ayuik and Reagor are almost sure thing to play up to those draft slots, and if Shenault can stay healthy we've probably drafted a real gem., and now we've added more ammo to fill in the other weak spots.
once those 4 are gone I think moving back is the smart play.
I'm sorry but Shenault sucks as a route runner. We need someone who is a good technical route runner.
hey, you'll take who we get and like it
yep there are two things Shenault sucks at, 1. staying healthy, and two. running routes,when it comes to everything else he's pretty dang good though.
when it comes to reading the Pro's and Cons of prospects, I tend to believe more concerning the positives, the CONS imo are to often fabricated out of a few bad plays and don't accurately represent the over all ability, it's more likely that route running simply isn't a strong part of what he has been asked to do in college, I know there are mockers that have dropped him to late 2nd, maybe even 3rd round, but I have my doubts about that.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 14:16
by go pak go
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 13:46
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 13:07
Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 12:10
spot on Yoho, I think a move like this would max out our draft capitol, both Ayuik and Reagor are almost sure thing to play up to those draft slots, and if Shenault can stay healthy we've probably drafted a real gem., and now we've added more ammo to fill in the other weak spots.
once those 4 are gone I think moving back is the smart play.
I'm sorry but Shenault sucks as a route runner. We need someone who is a good technical route runner.
hey, you'll take who we get and like it
yep there are two things Shenault sucks at, 1. staying healthy, and two. running routes,when it comes to everything else he's pretty dang good though.
when it comes to reading the Pro's and Cons of prospects, I tend to believe more concerning the positives, the CONS imo are to often fabricated out of a few bad plays and don't accurately represent the over all ability, it's more likely that route running simply isn't a strong part of what he has been asked to do in college, I know there are mockers that have dropped him to late 2nd, maybe even 3rd round, but I have my doubts about that.
Strengths
Possesses size and speed traits evaluators look to develop
Pushes off the line of scrimmage with good forward lean to build momentum into downfield routes
Long strider with build-up speed that eventually overtakes most cornerbacks
Saw 26.4 percent of his catches go for 25-plus yards
Poor deep ball placement from his quarterback prevented more easy touchdowns
Weaknesses
Routes lack sharpness and consistent play speed
Gives away stop routes prematurely
Slow to gather and redirect in space
Anchors on hitches and curls rather than working back to the throw
Too much body catching
Hands are small for his size and he suffers from focus drops
Gets deep but his ball skills down the field are lacking
Fails to utilize size to gain position
"His issues look coachable to me. You don't know what he was being taught, but he's big and can run so you take that and then just get those routes right." -- Former NFL Pro Bowl receiver
This is Marquez Valdez Scantling. The pros look pretty good. Hell of a lot faster than Shenault too.
I don't get it yoop. Literally out of anyone on this forum you complain about the WRs not being on Rodgers page more than anyone. So why would you want to draft someone who is a liability at running routes?
That is literally like the most important quality we need in our WR.
You have to run good routes. You have to be able have good RAC. You need to catch contested balls and have good body control/catching radius.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 14:20
by go pak go
I would rather have Van Jefferson in the 3rd round (even trade up in the 3rd) than Laviska Shenault in the 1st round.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 14:20
by NCF
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:16
That is literally like the most important quality we need in our WR.
I have stubbornly refused to believe that in the past, but its true. I always thought that could be coached up at the next level, but I think its more innate than people give credit for.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 14:28
by go pak go
NCF wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:20
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:16
That is literally like the most important quality we need in our WR.
I have stubbornly refused to believe that in the past, but its true. I always thought that could be coached up at the next level, but I think its more innate than people give credit for.
And don't get me wrong. I don't think you have to excel at it, but it certainly cannot be a liability of the prospect.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 14:40
by salmar80
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:28
NCF wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:20
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:16
That is literally like the most important quality we need in our WR.
I have stubbornly refused to believe that in the past, but its true. I always thought that could be coached up at the next level, but I think its more innate than people give credit for.
And don't get me wrong. I don't think you have to excel at it, but it certainly cannot be a liability of the prospect.
Also, being great at route running is the way to fast impact on our team. AR won't throw if a) you don't run the right route and b) you don't get open.
On some other teams, their QBs like throwing 50/50 jump balls to the sideline, but AR doesn't like INTs...
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 15:17
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:28
NCF wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:20
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 14:16
That is literally like the most important quality we need in our WR.
I have stubbornly refused to believe that in the past, but its true. I always thought that could be coached up at the next level, but I think its more innate than people give credit for.
And don't get me wrong. I don't think you have to excel at it, but it certainly cannot be a liability of the prospect.
and your doing the same thing these evaluators are doing, magnifying the short comings, Shenault is explosive, just go look at his game stats against excellent competition, he should become a excellent slot receiver, basically he's a RB with hands
and I never said I wanted the guy.
I also have talked about the pros of WR running consistent route patterns a lot, so don't act as though I'am some idiot, to make myself clear I want the best and most polished WR we can get, but I wont turn down a player that provides huge impact, and I believe Shenault will, he's a RB with receiver ship ability, and those types are in high demand.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 16:12
by bud fox
salmar80 wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 00:43
bud fox wrote: ↑29 Mar 2020 18:36
Don't like Mims.
Lack of separation - seems to push off a lot to get any separation. NFL much more strict than college.
Can make tough catches against college cbs. Don't like the fact the catches are so tough.
Don't like a safety in round 2 after our recent investment.
Who do you like in this draft, bud fox?
Mocks at the moment we won't have a shot at Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs. I think Higgins or Jefferson at 30 would be better than Mims.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 16:36
by NCF
bud fox wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 16:12
I think Higgins or Jefferson at 30 would be better than Mims.
I think most would agree with you about Jefferson, although it sounds like he's more likely to be in that Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs group than available.
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 16:40
by go pak go
bud fox wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 16:12
salmar80 wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 00:43
bud fox wrote: ↑29 Mar 2020 18:36
Don't like Mims.
Lack of separation - seems to push off a lot to get any separation. NFL much more strict than college.
Can make tough catches against college cbs. Don't like the fact the catches are so tough.
Don't like a safety in round 2 after our recent investment.
Who do you like in this draft, bud fox?
Mocks at the moment we won't have a shot at Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs. I think Higgins or Jefferson at 30 would be better than Mims.
WR #2 - #6 on our roster is literally all Higgins type players. Why would we need another one?
Re: go pak go Post FA Mock Version 2.0
Posted: 30 Mar 2020 16:55
by bud fox
go pak go wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 16:40
bud fox wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 16:12
salmar80 wrote: ↑30 Mar 2020 00:43
Who do you like in this draft, bud fox?
Mocks at the moment we won't have a shot at Jeudy, Lamb or Ruggs. I think Higgins or Jefferson at 30 would be better than Mims.
WR #2 - #6 on our roster is literally all Higgins type players. Why would we need another one?
Because Higgins should be better than all of them. I don't know our depth chart after 1 - it would be good to atleast have a consistent 2.