Packers Huddle

from TJ Lang via Tweeter

"Josh Myers has all the physical tools to be a day one starter but needs a bit of fine tuning on technique.. like @BrandonThornNFL
said.. if he learns how to use his hands better and consistent, could be a big time player."

Hope this kid plays baller football because I want to like him a lot

via Warren Sharp, interview with Bills GM Doug Whaley

https://succeedinfootball.com/2021/06/0 ... g-whaley/

"In the minds of some scouts and executives, center has eclipsed left tackle as the most important position on the offensive line: It’s due to today’s complex defenses and the center’s need to make the right line calls. “It was always offensive tackle, but the last two coaching searches, a lot of them switched to center, and it was because of the mental part of the game and (identifying) the (middle linebacker) and being able to make the line calls. And that’s so important now because of the intricacies of the defense. (Today’s coaches are) saying we need that center; it’s more important than the right or left tackle, which was interesting. . . I struggle with that, but I also understand where they’re coming from, especially if you have a young quarterback. If you can have that center take a lot of that mental part of the game off your young quarterback (you can) help him be able to function at a higher level with a lot less mental taxation on him.”

BSA wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 13:33

via Warren Sharp, interview with Bills GM Doug Whaley

https://succeedinfootball.com/2021/06/0 ... g-whaley/

"In the minds of some scouts and executives, center has eclipsed left tackle as the most important position on the offensive line: It’s due to today’s complex defenses and the center’s need to make the right line calls. “It was always offensive tackle, but the last two coaching searches, a lot of them switched to center, and it was because of the mental part of the game and (identifying) the (middle linebacker) and being able to make the line calls. And that’s so important now because of the intricacies of the defense. (Today’s coaches are) saying we need that center; it’s more important than the right or left tackle, which was interesting. . . I struggle with that, but I also understand where they’re coming from, especially if you have a young quarterback. If you can have that center take a lot of that mental part of the game off your young quarterback (you can) help him be able to function at a higher level with a lot less mental taxation on him.”

I mean they can talk about that all they want but the contracts centers do and don't get, in addition to the clear willingness of teams to let their starting centers hit the free agent market certainly indicates that it is still BY FAR the minority opinion around the league.

Put another way: players with the mental ability to play high-level center are seemingly less rare than players with the physical ability to play high-level left tackle.

any great OL player now commands big money, I think it's less about position then it is player ability, sure LT is still more expensive, but centers now are right up with G and RT, and it is a different game, Centers contracts will go up eventually just as ILB has.

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 13:59

any great OL player now commands big money, I think it's less about position then it is player ability, sure LT is still more expensive, but centers now are right up with G and RT, and it is a different game, Centers contracts will go up eventually just as ILB has.

I mean the literal best C in the league just signed a free agent contract for $12.5 M/year. 14 OTs and 4 OGs make more.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 14:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 13:59

any great OL player now commands big money, I think it's less about position then it is player ability, sure LT is still more expensive, but centers now are right up with G and RT, and it is a different game, Centers contracts will go up eventually just as ILB has.

I mean the literal best C in the league just signed a free agent contract for $12.5 M/year. 14 OTs and 4 OGs make more.

In the minds of some scouts and executives, center has eclipsed left tackle as the most important position on the offensive line:

this is a opinion I now share, teams are using more small ball, and interior pass rush, in fact several teams best pass rusher are interior players, times change, and often it takes a tad longer for the money to catch up, way of the world.

I mean I've always been a "pay your Ts and C and use cheap labor on rookie contracts at OG" but that dynamic changes when you have Elkton Jenkins at OG. So hopefully Myers is up to the task of starter on a rookie contract right out of the gates.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 14:03

I mean the literal best C in the league just signed a free agent contract for $12.5 M/year. 14 OTs and 4 OGs make more.

That info is mostly looking backwards, the comment from the GM is looking forward. The Packers are now putting a higher value on the IOL positions, they'd never spend 2nds on those guys in the TT era, but now Gute has done it twice. Evolution Revolution for some teams, while others live in the past. The modern passing game gets the ball out so fast, some of the value of the LT is lessened, while the defenders who attack from the interior and the guys who block them - gain value.

Josh Myers is reported to be quite smart in making the line calls - and that works for a savant like Rodgers AND for a newbie like Love.

I mean, I suppose... but like I said, the best C (and the highest paid, who got a new money/new years extension) JUST signed this past offseason.

Cory Linsley and Frank Ragnow's contracts are not backwards-looking.

The two highest-paid OTs, Trent Williams and David Bakhtiari, also signed within the past calendar year. They are also not backwards looking.

The Chiefs trading a first round pick this offseason to secure a LT is not backwards-looking.

These are the most current, up-to-date pieces of information on the pretty-universally-best players at the position (Linsley, Ragnow, Bakh, Williams, not Brown--but Brown shows a Super Bowl contender's current priorities) and the signal is still very clear.

I'm sorry but "some people believe" can be true while still being by far the less popular belief. It can also be true that the mental aspects of playing C (obviously also the physical) can be more important, while also being more available, which would make it important to have, but easy to find. That, to me, is what we're dealing with; it's important to have, but easy to find. So people can talk up its importance, but the value of acquiring one and the importance of making that acquisition and getting it right is still heightened among the top OTs (who almost never hit unrestricted free agency, unlike the top Cs)

It's on record,(someone brought the info) that LG as I've said for a long time is the 2nd highest paid position on OL, and thats possibly changing now, I always got a chuckle when people would say LT is the blind spot for a right hand throwing QB, as though LG wouldn't also be, and it's considered the weak side of a 1 TE offense.

pay scale as I remember reading it years back was LT, LG, RT, RG, C., now it may be LT, C, LG, RT, RG

heck our LT was a 4th rounder, our RT was plucked from the recycle bin, our LG and C where prized 2nd round warriors

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:08

It's on record,(someone brought the info) that LG as I've said for a long time is the 2nd highest paid position on OL, and thats possibly changing now, I always got a chuckle when people would say LT is the blind spot for a right hand throwing QB, as though LG wouldn't also be, and it's considered the weak side of a 1 TE offense.

pay scale as I remember reading it years back was LT, LG, RT, RG, C., now it may be LT, C, LG, RT, RG

heck our LT was a 4th rounder, our RT was plucked from the recycle bin, our LG and C where prized 2nd round warriors

That isn't true. I shared information that guards (all guards) are about as valuable as right tackles. Value purely coming from the top of given NFL contracts. I brought my evidence to counter the point that we are limiting/holding back Elgton Jenkins by keeping him at guard vs letting him play tackle.

The info I brought in no distinguished left vs right guard, so there was simply nothing there to support your point of left guard is the 2nd highest paid position on the OL.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just that no evidence has been provided that states left guard is the 2nd highest paid position in the NFL.

BF004 wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:08

It's on record,(someone brought the info) that LG as I've said for a long time is the 2nd highest paid position on OL, and thats possibly changing now, I always got a chuckle when people would say LT is the blind spot for a right hand throwing QB, as though LG wouldn't also be, and it's considered the weak side of a 1 TE offense.

pay scale as I remember reading it years back was LT, LG, RT, RG, C., now it may be LT, C, LG, RT, RG

heck our LT was a 4th rounder, our RT was plucked from the recycle bin, our LG and C where prized 2nd round warriors

That isn't true. I shared information that guards (all guards) are about as valuable as right tackles. Value purely coming from the top of given NFL contracts. I brought my evidence to counter the point that we are limiting/holding back Elgton Jenkins by keeping him at guard vs letting him play tackle.

The info I brought in no distinguished left vs right guard, so there was simply nothing there to support your point of left guard is the 2nd highest paid position on the OL.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just that no evidence has been provided that states left guard is the 2nd highest paid position in the NFL.

maybe I'll look for the info later, it stands to reason though, and I already explained why, thought for sure you said back then though that LG made more then RT's, maybe that was in the small ball era and it's changed, but I don't see why it would though.

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:08

It's on record,(someone brought the info) that LG as I've said for a long time is the 2nd highest paid position on OL, and thats possibly changing now, I always got a chuckle when people would say LT is the blind spot for a right hand throwing QB, as though LG wouldn't also be, and it's considered the weak side of a 1 TE offense.

pay scale as I remember reading it years back was LT, LG, RT, RG, C., now it may be LT, C, LG, RT, RG

heck our LT was a 4th rounder, our RT was plucked from the recycle bin, our LG and C where prized 2nd round warriors

That isn't true. I shared information that guards (all guards) are about as valuable as right tackles. Value purely coming from the top of given NFL contracts. I brought my evidence to counter the point that we are limiting/holding back Elgton Jenkins by keeping him at guard vs letting him play tackle.

The info I brought in no distinguished left vs right guard, so there was simply nothing there to support your point of left guard is the 2nd highest paid position on the OL.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just that no evidence has been provided that states left guard is the 2nd highest paid position in the NFL.

maybe I'll look for the info later, it stands to reason though, and I already explained why, thought for sure you said back then though that LG made more then RT's, maybe that was in the small ball era and it's changed, but I don't see why it would though.

Where is this list/post? We could pretty easily go through it to see who plays primarily LG vs RG, right? Only slightly related, but when the Packers had Sitton and Lang both in their primes and flipped sides with them, that was interesting.

after a exhaustive search of 3 sights none would support my viewpoint that LG makes more then RT, in fact all 3 suggest this is the pay scale according to highest paid per position last year, LT, RT, LG, RG, C, the big drop is from LT 23 mollas to RT 18 M to LG 16 mil. RG 14 m and C at 13.5
but again if your not the highest paid it probably depends more how good you are over all other OL regardless of position.

I always thought Sitton was the more expensive of those two G's


https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/N ... Myles-Garr

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:43

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 15:31

That isn't true. I shared information that guards (all guards) are about as valuable as right tackles. Value purely coming from the top of given NFL contracts. I brought my evidence to counter the point that we are limiting/holding back Elgton Jenkins by keeping him at guard vs letting him play tackle.

The info I brought in no distinguished left vs right guard, so there was simply nothing there to support your point of left guard is the 2nd highest paid position on the OL.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, just that no evidence has been provided that states left guard is the 2nd highest paid position in the NFL.

maybe I'll look for the info later, it stands to reason though, and I already explained why, thought for sure you said back then though that LG made more then RT's, maybe that was in the small ball era and it's changed, but I don't see why it would though.

Where is this list/post? We could pretty easily go through it to see who plays primarily LG vs RG, right? Only slightly related, but when the Packers had Sitton and Lang both in their primes and flipped sides with them, that was interesting.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... d/average/

Brandon Scherff is #1 in average annual, I am pretty sure he is a right guard.

I think for just a couple at the top of the positions the next 4 to 5 players at each position make very similar money, this link though shows that in these last few seasons RG has made more then LG, in fact it's the position almost the same as RT, with Center lagging back a little.

https://overthecap.com/position/center/

I will say, we're finding crumbs here and I don't think we'll come to a very comprehensive solution in terms of right v. left guards and right and left tackles and all....

But I do think we should take a moment to examine Yoop's theory of the WHY behind this...

Basically, that with fewer teams opting for the power run game, more zone blocking, and a LOT more passing, the interior defensive linemen are becoming quicker, better pass rushers rather than bigger, slow run-stuffers, and this movement of more interior pass rushers has increased the value of the interior linemen who attempt to stop them.

Given that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, the interior pass rushers, if effective, can get to a QB more quickly than an edge rusher (and with less opportunity for a QB to move in the pocket to avoid him). Therefore an elite interior pass rusher, such as Aaron Donald but honestly also including our EDGE guys who slide in on 3rd downs like Z often does and Gary sometimes does, stopping the interior rushers becomes more important, even, than stopping the edge rushers--thus increasing the value of iOL, especially the "blindside" guard, but also the C who makes the protection calls and often has to help on either side.

It's an interesting theory

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2021 17:07

I will say, we're finding crumbs here and I don't think we'll come to a very comprehensive solution in terms of right v. left guards and right and left tackles and all....

But I do think we should take a moment to examine Yoop's theory of the WHY behind this...

Basically, that with fewer teams opting for the power run game, more zone blocking, and a LOT more passing, the interior defensive linemen are becoming quicker, better pass rushers rather than bigger, slow run-stuffers, and this movement of more interior pass rushers has increased the value of the interior linemen who attempt to stop them.

Given that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, the interior pass rushers, if effective, can get to a QB more quickly than an edge rusher (and with less opportunity for a QB to move in the pocket to avoid him). Therefore an elite interior pass rusher, such as Aaron Donald but honestly also including our EDGE guys who slide in on 3rd downs like Z often does and Gary sometimes does, stopping the interior rushers becomes more important, even, than stopping the edge rushers--thus increasing the value of iOL, especially the "blindside" guard, but also the C who makes the protection calls and often has to help on either side.

It's an interesting theory

agreed, well put.

everything is getting faster between the hash marks imo, that link I brought that showed Pitts ( pretty sure it was the Steelers) that hit 49% pass rush success (highest in over a decade) had 3 of the top 10 pass rushing T in the league, so I think we have to get Gary, maybe both Smiths to start sliding in more.

surprised me that RG are making more then the blind side LG, and C according to this is still the lowest paid OL, but as the article said, that could be changing in the future.

Anybody know why the term “blindside LG” hasn’t caught on? It’s because the guard position, and the proximity of the defender attacking over the LG, are not in a “blind” spot. Unlike the “blindside” tackle and edge rusher, the LG and defender are generally both well within the visual periphery of the QB as he drops back into the pocket and thus there is no “blind” rush coming.

If there is a difference in salary between LG and RG positions, I’d venture to guess the individual being paid is just that much better than his peers and not so much a positional left side or right side thing.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read anything that promotes one side over the other in a league wide sense. I know for a while under McCarthy they just liked running left more than right but I think it was more of a scheme and RB/QB/line strength thing, not any overall emphasis on an accepted LG over RG philosophy.