Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 12:31

I mean yeah, one of the best front sevens in the NFL when our LT was out and they could exploit other things made Turner look bad. But that's a stupid way to evaluate a player's season.

There is ZERO indication that Turner is not a top-5 player on our line or that he isn't a starter. The only time anyone else got starter reps at RT in OTAs and minicamp was when Turner was at Left Tackle, which is an upgrade in role, not a downgrade.

I'm sorry. The "Turner has to be replaced" or "might lose the job" crowd are just wrong. It's just patently contrary to reality. He is the starter. His biggest struggles came at Guard, honestly.

I would agree he’s a top 5 player on the line. He’s 5th.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

It is high time Lupe and Skeptic face reality with Turner. He is a good RT. He will be our 3rd or 4th best lineman depending on Myers. As a right tackle there is no way Billy Turner will be replaced or even deserves to be replaced in 2021. Saying he is a turnstile flies in the face of all available evidence.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 13:04

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 12:31

I mean yeah, one of the best front sevens in the NFL when our LT was out and they could exploit other things made Turner look bad. But that's a stupid way to evaluate a player's season.

There is ZERO indication that Turner is not a top-5 player on our line or that he isn't a starter. The only time anyone else got starter reps at RT in OTAs and minicamp was when Turner was at Left Tackle, which is an upgrade in role, not a downgrade.

I'm sorry. The "Turner has to be replaced" or "might lose the job" crowd are just wrong. It's just patently contrary to reality. He is the starter. His biggest struggles came at Guard, honestly.

I would agree he’s a top 5 player on the line. He’s 5th.

ranked even with the top t's in the league sure as hell makes him better then the 5th OL, I'd say #3 behind Jenkins and Bak

Waldo wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 12:15

TBH its borderline absurd that a likely most down starter is still on the board. Kamal Martin. Sure its a new coach and someone could challenge him for a spot, but lets not forget that he was Mr August last year. The idea that someone is going to outflash him in camp to take his spot I see as rather unlikely.

At this point I do not consider Kamal as the starter in the least. I think there will be a strong 3-way camp battle for that 2nd ILB spot between Martin, Summers and that dude we just signed.

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 14:58

Waldo wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 12:15

TBH its borderline absurd that a likely most down starter is still on the board. Kamal Martin. Sure its a new coach and someone could challenge him for a spot, but lets not forget that he was Mr August last year. The idea that someone is going to outflash him in camp to take his spot I see as rather unlikely.

At this point I do not consider Kamal as the starter in the least. I think there will be a strong 3-way camp battle for that 2nd ILB spot between Martin, Summers and that dude we just signed.

love the intensity that Martin brought, but like a lot of college players, he went real fast in the wrong direction gotta read the traffic signs in the nfl I'll say one thing, I like our ILB situation more now then I did last year.

I like Martin about as much as I do Dequara, or Runyan

Fortunately Martin read plays well and was in position to make the play. His struggle was finishing.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 15:39

Fortunately Martin read plays well and was in position to make the play. His struggle was finishing.

Don't get me wrong. I hope to gawd he wins the job and wins it easily.

He is a player I am super pumped about.

I remember reading this, and it confirms what I remember seeing, but I also like Martin, and I think he has a higher ceiling then Barnes

His attacking instincts are strong, and he prefers anticipating things in front of him and playing downhill. His five missed tackles in limited playing time highlight the recklessness still in his game. On several occasions, he was in position to make a play but arrived at the scene out of control and missed the tackle. Young players that aren’t getting consistent playing time can be over-anxious to create big plays. Reliability is often more important.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/0 ... al-martin/

I really think Kamal Martin would have delivered on the hype if he had not gotten injured at such an inopportune time. He was looking good in camp but then had the injury that sidelined him until about October. I feel like that probably threw him off because rhythm is so important in football, and when you suddenly interrupt a steady stream of snaps for a young player who needs them for the game to slow down for him, I feel like they miss out big time.

I was really irked that he got injured when he did not only because I was excited to see him play, but also because I feel like that really screws with a young player's development.

I sometimes wonder if the same didn't also happen to Burks. He actually looked pretty good in early preseason action, then got hurt and had to sit out for a while, and for a guy like him who was still very new to the position and needed to learn from experience, not getting those snaps is a huge loss (although I'm still not sure why Pettine refused to play him over Morrison at the end of the year when the season was clearly lost; yeah, he probably would have sucked, but he needed those snaps if there was any hope that he would live up to his draft billing).

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 20:23

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

two inches good point, Summers has played well at times too, what happened his last 2 years in college? his soph year he had a 120 tackles I think I read, then tailed down from there, had 39 tackles with us last year, just didn't show the quicks imo as did Martin, but as I said our ILB situation seems more competitive now.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 20:23

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

My understanding is that Summers was new to the LB position, athletically tests well pretty much across the board but it does not translate into quality play because he is raw, whereas Martin is a mixed bag athletically and his struggles have to do with some of his athletic limitations and the usual issue of a rookie player needing the game to slow down a bit rather than rawness.

Personally, ILB is one of the few positions where I prefer readiness to athleticism. By the NFL, you can either play that position or you can't. I don't mind a late-round flier on a guy like Summers who can be a core ST player right away and posssssibly develop into a player. Solid use of a 7th, but I tend to prefer guys like Martin.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 13:14

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

It is high time Lupe and Skeptic face reality with Turner. He is a good RT. He will be our 3rd or 4th best lineman depending on Myers. As a right tackle there is no way Billy Turner will be replaced or even deserves to be replaced in 2021. Saying he is a turnstile flies in the face of all available evidence.

Such an interesting graphic - I think all the non packers in the top 8 are first round picks. The packers players are 3rd (broncos), 4th (Bak), 5th (Wagner) round.

Crazy we have THREE in the top 8.

Makes you think why that is.

Voted M.Lewis. He will play and block etc.

When it comes to OTs, I tend to struggle with confirmation bias. If Bak allows one sack in a game, the immediate reaction "wow, that's rare". But if Turner does the same, it's "cursed turnstile!"

I don't think Turner is by any means great. But he's good enough and cheap enough that a young guy would need to be a real revelation to unseat him.

Been going Martin and Deguara for awhile. Martin might be our top ilber this year. Nothing against barns but more upside with Martin.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 20:23

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

Martin is the shiny toy and people read some tweets last August that they liked.

I got excited about Martin too. Until I saw him actually play and realized he is a more out of control Summers.

go pak go wrote: ↑

24 Jun 2021 09:39

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 20:23

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

Martin is the shiny toy and people read some tweets last August that they liked.

I got excited about Martin too. Until I saw him actually play and realized he is a more out of control Summers.

That can be harnessed, though. I'll take a guy who screws up 100 MPH versus one who looks tentative every time. One thing about Martin, though, is he is physical. Let's not brush off Summers inability to finish as some small flaw... it's the number 1 job he has and he sucks at it.

go pak go wrote: ↑

24 Jun 2021 09:39

Martin is the shiny toy and people read some tweets last August that they liked.

I got excited about Martin too. Until I saw him actually play and realized he is a more out of control Summers.

Yeah I mean don’t get me wrong, learning NFL offense and experience reading keys and continued studying and fundamentals work can turn them into players. It just feels like pretty even odds on them each, and Summers clearly was ahead of Martin in the offseason work this year.

It’s just weird that anyone considers Martin basically a starter. As it stands, Barnes in LB1 and Summers is ahead of Martin at LB2 and we just signed a free agent. Martin is a long way from starting right now. Like a LONG way. Especially considering how small the role is for LB2 anyway.

NCF wrote: ↑

24 Jun 2021 09:56

go pak go wrote: ↑

24 Jun 2021 09:39

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2021 20:23

I know this is gonna sound nuts, but what is the difference between Martin and Summers, aside from a couple inches?

Summers, every time I've seen him on the field, is ALWAYS around the ball, fast to the ball, in the right spot, and can't finish. Just whiffs the tackle or doesn't wrap up. His athletic attributes are top notch--he ran a 4.51 and has a 9.71 RAS. He's communicating the D and making calls on the field in offseason activities. He seems to be at the right place and the right time. He just doesn't finish

So if that's the obstancle with martin that everyone expects him to overcome and rise above, why is it different than Summers?

Martin is the shiny toy and people read some tweets last August that they liked.

I got excited about Martin too. Until I saw him actually play and realized he is a more out of control Summers.

That can be harnessed, though. I'll take a guy who screws up 100 MPH versus one who looks tentative every time. One thing about Martin, though, is he is physical. Let's not brush off Summers inability to finish as some small flaw... it's the number 1 job he has and he sucks at it.

Martin sucks worse at finishing than Summers because at least Summers is there (Martin instead blew up the wrong hole). The reason there is hope for Martin is Martin is more physical and packs a harder punch.

That's really the only difference I see between the two. Which I agree is a big difference. But Martin cannot put on tape what he did last year.